FAQ
I've been working on a catalyst application for a while, and while I was
developing it under Debian, it
seem it will be hosted on a Ubuntu server (I know, I know, had I known
this before, I'd have set up a virtual
machine so I could test on the deployment environment).

Anyway, I noticed that Ubuntu server seems to lag seriously behind the
Catalyst packages I see on Debian unstable - even the Ubuntu server that
is now in beta is still showing lib-catalyst-modules-perl on version 34
(Debian unstable has 39) and libcatalyst-perl at 5.80007-1ubuntu1.

Since the upcoming Ubuntu (10.04, Lucid) is supposed to be LTS (long
term support) it will be a factor in determining which Catalyst packages
are available by default for a significant ammount of time.

Anybody involved with Ubuntu, could you *please* check if there is still
time (while it is still in beta) to
get more up-to-date Ubuntu packages into Lucid?

Please?

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  • Denny at Mar 21, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    On Sun, 2010-03-21 at 19:05 +0100, Matija Grabnar wrote:
    Anyway, I noticed that Ubuntu server seems to lag seriously behind the
    Catalyst packages I see on Debian unstable
    Well yes. Debian unstable isn't generally considered suitable for
    production servers - there's a clue in the name.

    Is there a reason you'd rather not install Catalyst from CPAN?

    Regards,
    Denny

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  • Matija Grabnar at Mar 21, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Denny wrote:
    On Sun, 2010-03-21 at 19:05 +0100, Matija Grabnar wrote:

    Anyway, I noticed that Ubuntu server seems to lag seriously behind the
    Catalyst packages I see on Debian unstable
    Well yes. Debian unstable isn't generally considered suitable for
    production servers - there's a clue in the name.
    I realize that. However, if we think that the latest Catalyst is stable
    enough, now is the time to act. A month from now will be definitely too
    late.
    Is there a reason you'd rather not install Catalyst from CPAN?
    Two reasons:

    The more important one is that whatever is in Lucid when it is released,
    will be there as default install for several years more - that is what
    LTS means. Advising everybody "oh, if you've got Ubuntu LTS, just scrape
    Catalyst off and install from CPAN" is a bad idea.

    The less important reason is that is vastly easier to install Catalyst
    from aptitude than it is directly from CPAN. Particularly if I want it
    to update when critical fixes (or other upgrades) come through.
  • Denny at Mar 21, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    On Sun, 2010-03-21 at 19:33 +0100, Matija Grabnar wrote:
    Denny wrote:
    Well yes. Debian unstable isn't generally considered suitable for
    production servers - there's a clue in the name.
    I realize that. However, if we think that the latest Catalyst is stable
    enough, now is the time to act. A month from now will be definitely too
    late.
    Oh I see... I thought your concern was for your own deployment, not for
    improving Ubuntu. Yes, it would be nice if the imminent LTS release of
    Ubuntu had something reasonably recent and solid in it.

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  • Peter Edwards at Mar 21, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I realize that. However, if we think that the latest Catalyst is stable
    enough, now is the time to act. A month from now will be definitely too
    late.
    Is there a reason you'd rather not install Catalyst from CPAN?
    Could you use pkgsrc to build a bundle instead?

    Regards, Peter
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  • Matija Grabnar at Mar 21, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    Peter Edwards wrote:
    Could you use pkgsrc to build a bundle instead?
    I guess I could use some hints on how to do that. I tried using
    dh-make-perl but while it looks great
    and useful (particularly the cpan2deb command), for some reason the debs
    it makes depend on
    liblibwww-perl-perl instead of libwww-perl, and I can't figure out how
    to change that.
  • Dave Rolsky at Mar 21, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    On Sun, 21 Mar 2010, Matija Grabnar wrote:

    Anybody involved with Ubuntu, could you *please* check if there is still
    time (while it is still in beta) to get more up-to-date Ubuntu packages
    into Lucid?
    They'll still be out of date quicker than you'd like. If your app is
    Catalyst-based, chances are you'll want to upgrade before the next LTS is
    available.

    One possible solution is to maintain your own forklet of the relevant
    debian unstable packages.

    You could also just use dh-make-perl to build a set of packages from CPAN
    modules and use these on top of the standard Ubuntu packages. If your
    server is dedicated to this one app, those are both feasible approches.

    Another approach is to package the application so it installs to a
    separate dir and uses its own libraries. These libraries could then
    consist of custom packages of Perl modules which install to a non-standard
    location. That way you can keep your app's libraries totally separate from
    the system Perl libs.

    There are other approaches too.

    The real point is that if you're building a Perl-based app chances are
    you're going to need to manage your dependency chain more carefully than
    "just rely on system packages".


    -dave

    /*============================================================
    http://VegGuide.org http://blog.urth.org
    Your guide to all that's veg House Absolute(ly Pointless)
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postedMar 21, '10 at 6:05p
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