FAQ
Hello,

So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
put together some more web-available information for those
transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
(or that you are currently having trouble with)

My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
(or sponsor).

My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
view)

2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
average web app.

3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.

Any others?

Jay

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  • Devin Austin at Feb 16, 2009 at 8:43 pm
    Well, people are going to want to know how Catalyst compares to *ahem*
    others as far as AJAX goes, certainly REST, and app servers like nginx,
    lighttpd, etc.

    Also, best practices. Walking beginning to end on an app is great, but a
    lot of the newbies end up having to throw away a lot of their newly acquired
    knowledge for what *should* be done.

    Perhaps best practices is best left for a thread on its own, but I think it
    should somehow be addressed.

    How about how Catalyst interacts with caching components/technologies? I'm
    just trying to think of production level necessities that we'll want to
    advertise to newcomers/defectors.

    Any of these sound legitimate?
    On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Jay Kuri wrote:

    Hello,

    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)

    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.

    Any others?

    Jay



    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


    --
    Devin Austin
    http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost!
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  • Dermot at Feb 16, 2009 at 8:55 pm

    2009/2/16 Jay Kuri <jayk@ion0.com>:
    Hello,

    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)

    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.

    Any others?
    There is an article by Stas Bekman
    (http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2002/05/07/mod_perl.html) entitled "The
    Perl You Need To Know". The title of the article kept coming to me as
    I began to plough through the Catalyst tutorials because Catalyst/DBIC
    is OO. Everything I had done up to then was scripted/function
    orientated. You might use the OO interface to CGI but the finished
    product is esstenially a script. For me, the gulf was there.
    Good luck,
    Dp.
  • Octavian Rasnita at Feb 16, 2009 at 9:01 pm
    Good idea.

    I think that many beginners find hard to learn Catalyst if they are coming
    from another framework, or even worse, from CGI.pm, because right after they
    begin, they need to learn DBIx::Class, Template-Toolkit, YAML or
    Config::General, and they might not understand very fast if a certain piece
    of text is a Catalyst code, or a DBIC one or something else.

    So I think a good tutorial should start without using DBIC or a
    configuration file, and without using a view and a model.

    It should be that kind of example that "You shouldn't do this, but it is
    ment for understanding Catalyst easier".

    So the first MyApp.pm should use only the Root.pm controller, and print a
    very short of html text using $c->response->body().

    The next sample should upgrade that example and show how Catalyst gets the
    parameters from a form, almost like CGI.pm does, and print the body in the
    same way, using the same warning that this code is not one that should be
    used.

    The next example should upgrade that sample app and tell why a view is
    needed, and how Catalyst can be used to forward to a certain view, tell how
    to configure a default view in MyApp.pm, and print the body using a view,
    but without using TT.

    The next example should show the advantage of using templates, introduce the
    TT view, the TT helper that creates the view automaticly, and print the page
    using a single .tt file, or a very small number of templates that create the
    page.

    There could be another sample that shows what kind of "another view" can be
    used to print the same content in a different way by just forwarding to it.

    Then maybe there would be good to introduce the configuration file, show how
    to use Config::General and why it is useful to use a config file.

    After the beginner started to understand how Catalyst works, how the actions
    work... the basic ones like Local, Index, Default, Private, Auto, introduce
    the model, and show a simple model that puts and gets the data in a more
    simple way, not by using DBI or DBIC.
    For example, it could open() a file and store the information to it.

    Then the model that should be teached should be the one that uses DBI, and
    show the user that he can have a $dbh object in any action, without needing
    to connect to the database by specifying each time the database name,
    username, password and other options.

    And only after the user will understand how Catalyst works, what means a
    model, teach them DBIx::Class which is pretty hard to understand if it is
    taught together with Catalyst without knowing any of them.

    Maybe here would be good a suggestion to stop and read a DBIx::Class
    tutorial, for understanding that module outside Catalyst, and understand
    even better which are the features offered by Catalyst and which are the
    ones offered by DBIC.

    Then... it could be much easier to understand how the
    authentication/authorization that uses DBIC works and other Catalyst
    features.

    It might sound too stupid, but for a beginner it should sound very stupid,
    and he should find it very easy to understand, with very little things to
    learn on each step, and finally he will see that he knows how to use
    Catalyst with its most important features.

    I also think that the explanation should be simple to understand even for
    those who don't know Perl at all.

    Octavian

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jay Kuri" <jayk@ion0.com>
    To: <catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk>
    Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:32 PM
    Subject: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions

    Hello,

    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)

    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.

    Any others?

    Jay



    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
  • Devin Austin at Feb 16, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Octavian Râsnita wrote:

    Good idea.

    I think that many beginners find hard to learn Catalyst if they are coming
    from another framework, or even worse, from CGI.pm, because right after they
    begin, they need to learn DBIx::Class, Template-Toolkit, YAML or
    Config::General, and they might not understand very fast if a certain piece
    of text is a Catalyst code, or a DBIC one or something else.

    So I think a good tutorial should start without using DBIC or a
    configuration file, and without using a view and a model.

    It should be that kind of example that "You shouldn't do this, but it is
    ment for understanding Catalyst easier".

    So the first MyApp.pm should use only the Root.pm controller, and print a
    very short of html text using $c->response->body().

    The next sample should upgrade that example and show how Catalyst gets the
    parameters from a form, almost like CGI.pm does, and print the body in the
    same way, using the same warning that this code is not one that should be
    used.

    The next example should upgrade that sample app and tell why a view is
    needed, and how Catalyst can be used to forward to a certain view, tell how
    to configure a default view in MyApp.pm, and print the body using a view,
    but without using TT.

    The next example should show the advantage of using templates, introduce
    the TT view, the TT helper that creates the view automaticly, and print the
    page using a single .tt file, or a very small number of templates that
    create the page.

    There could be another sample that shows what kind of "another view" can be
    used to print the same content in a different way by just forwarding to it.

    Then maybe there would be good to introduce the configuration file, show
    how to use Config::General and why it is useful to use a config file.

    After the beginner started to understand how Catalyst works, how the
    actions work... the basic ones like Local, Index, Default, Private, Auto,
    introduce the model, and show a simple model that puts and gets the data in
    a more simple way, not by using DBI or DBIC.
    For example, it could open() a file and store the information to it.

    Then the model that should be teached should be the one that uses DBI, and
    show the user that he can have a $dbh object in any action, without needing
    to connect to the database by specifying each time the database name,
    username, password and other options.

    And only after the user will understand how Catalyst works, what means a
    model, teach them DBIx::Class which is pretty hard to understand if it is
    taught together with Catalyst without knowing any of them.

    Maybe here would be good a suggestion to stop and read a DBIx::Class
    tutorial, for understanding that module outside Catalyst, and understand
    even better which are the features offered by Catalyst and which are the
    ones offered by DBIC.

    Then... it could be much easier to understand how the
    authentication/authorization that uses DBIC works and other Catalyst
    features.

    It might sound too stupid, but for a beginner it should sound very stupid,
    and he should find it very easy to understand, with very little things to
    learn on each step, and finally he will see that he knows how to use
    Catalyst with its most important features.

    I also think that the explanation should be simple to understand even for
    those who don't know Perl at all.

    Octavian

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Kuri" <jayk@ion0.com>
    To: <catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk>
    Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:32 PM
    Subject: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions



    Hello,
    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)

    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.

    Any others?

    Jay



    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
    I think we should also consider branching on whether someone is experienced
    with perl or absolutely new. Catalyst certainly isn't for the new perl
    programmer, so there are some basics at the very bare minimum that need to
    be covered in perl first.

    --
    Devin Austin
    http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost!
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  • Jay Kuri at Feb 16, 2009 at 9:47 pm
    Right... As I've said before, I'm not interested in the super-newbie
    area. I don't want to teach perl. Teaching better perl practices,
    sure. Teaching what a sigil is and what they mean in perl... not so
    much.

    Overall, I'm interested in helping those who are new to the Catalyst
    platform but are already interested.... and those who are thinking
    about it but need a bit more of a clear path through the reams of
    documentation that is 'out there.'

    Jay
    On Feb 16, 2009, at 2:10 PM, Devin Austin wrote:

    I think we should also consider branching on whether someone is
    experienced with perl or absolutely new. Catalyst certainly isn't
    for the new perl programmer, so there are some basics at the very
    bare minimum that need to be covered in perl first.

    --
    Devin Austin
    http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with
    DreamHost!
    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
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  • Kieren Diment at Feb 16, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    On 17/02/2009, at 8:47 AM, Jay Kuri wrote:

    Right... As I've said before, I'm not interested in the super-newbie
    area. I don't want to teach perl. Teaching better perl practices,
    sure. Teaching what a sigil is and what they mean in perl... not so
    much.

    I had a huge amount of fun writing the perl basics chapter of the
    book. On the other hand a quote from early on in the piece:

    "[This chapter is] going to be a bit like a first year university
    lecture where everything in a subject that you covered in the final
    two years of high school is covered in a single one or two hour
    lecture."
  • Kieren Diment at Feb 16, 2009 at 10:16 pm

    On 17/02/2009, at 8:01 AM, Octavian R?snita wrote:

    Good idea.

    I think that many beginners find hard to learn Catalyst if they are
    coming from another framework, or even worse, from CGI.pm, because
    right after they begin, they need to learn DBIx::Class, Template-
    Toolkit, YAML or Config::General, and they might not understand very
    fast if a certain piece of text is a Catalyst code, or a DBIC one or
    something else.
    [snip useful description ]

    I would be very happy to recommend an approach such as this for the
    book, if someone wants to have it written by mid april (when the final
    first draft is done). Chapter three is a little like this, only we
    have a (non-database) model and view (very simple TT) straight away.
    Spoonfeeding like this isn't going to go into the book as space is
    limited and we have to get to the intermediate / advanced stuff quite
    quickly. But, a tutorial with this structure would be good and I'd
    support it going into Catalyst::Manual::Tutuorial as
    Catalyst::Manual::Tutorial::Beginner or something.

    It might sound too stupid, but for a beginner it should sound very
    stupid, and he should find it very easy to understand, with very
    little things to learn on each step, and finally he will see that he
    knows how to use Catalyst with its most important features.

    I also think that the explanation should be simple to understand
    even for those who don't know Perl at all.

    Octavian

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Kuri" <jayk@ion0.com>
    To: <catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk>
    Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:32 PM
    Subject: [Catalyst] RFC: New to Catalyst questions

    Hello,

    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)

    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.

    Any others?

    Jay



    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
  • Bjørn-Helge Mevik at Feb 17, 2009 at 11:34 am

    Jay Kuri wrote:

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)
    My biggest problem was how to handle the Norwegian characters (???) in
    an app with MySql, DBIx::Class, TT and mod_perl. use Catalyst
    qw/Unicode/ only solves the TT and mod_perl side of the pipeline. I
    finally ended up with (IMHO) a cludge: adding on_connect_do => [ "set
    character_set_client = 'utf8'", ] to the connect_info. It only works
    as long as the internal coding in Perl happens to be utf8.

    I also had problems finding out how to create more comples FormFu
    forms, with respect to layout, types of objects, and constraints. The
    main problem was that the documentation is (IMHO) scarce and scattered
    over a large number of files. (This is arguably a FormFu problem, but
    FormFu is important for Catalyst applications. :-)

    --
    Bj?rn-Helge Mevik
  • Ash Berlin at Feb 17, 2009 at 6:28 pm

    On 17 Feb 2009, at 11:34, Bj?rn-Helge Mevik wrote:

    Jay Kuri wrote:
    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)
    My biggest problem was how to handle the Norwegian characters (???) in
    an app with MySql, DBIx::Class, TT and mod_perl. use Catalyst
    qw/Unicode/ only solves the TT and mod_perl side of the pipeline. I
    finally ended up with (IMHO) a cludge: adding on_connect_do => [ "set
    character_set_client = 'utf8'", ] to the connect_info. It only works
    as long as the internal coding in Perl happens to be utf8.
    http://search.cpan.org/~capttofu/DBD-mysql-4.010/lib/DBD/mysql.pm#mysql_enable_utf8
    for a less kludgy way

    I also had problems finding out how to create more comples FormFu
    forms, with respect to layout, types of objects, and constraints. The
    main problem was that the documentation is (IMHO) scarce and scattered
    over a large number of files. (This is arguably a FormFu problem, but
    FormFu is important for Catalyst applications. :-)
    This is generally the problem with any such scaffold - they are fine
    until they aren't. You either make them simple to use and learn, or
    possible to extend how you want. Not both.

    -ash
  • David Steiner at Feb 17, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)
    Areas you could focus on:
    - Basic Form handling, implemented with a specific module: formfu, rose, etc..
    - Possibly: Form handling with AJAX
    - CRUD operations with multiple tables
    - Building your own "fat" model API, to put as much logic into your model and
    then use this API in your controllers.
    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.
    Deployment with FastCGI
    Putting dependencies in your Makefile.pl and how to install it on another box.
    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.
    Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need!

    But what kind of example are you planning to do? How about you cover CRUD, to
    build something like... "yet another Blog"? Have a couple of tables with
    relationships like author, story, tags, categories, comments... link them up
    with dbix::class, use formfu for the forms, and to make it interesting: add
    some ajax on the forms to validate the input, without reloading the page.
    keep the example simple, yet functional, so that others can build on it and
    extend it.

    I'd be interested in writing some parts of a tutorial like this. Let me know
    if you need some help writing documentation.
  • Devin Austin at Feb 17, 2009 at 7:49 pm
    Hear hear! Practical example ftw!

    To add yet *another* branch to this discussion, I think it would be neat to
    add a few sections on "Coming from $framework" where $framework eq rails,
    django, .net, etc. That's probably a bit down the road, as most of my ideas
    seem to be.

    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 12:46 PM, David Steiner
    wrote:
    So all this 'too many choices' talk has got me thinking. I'd like to
    put together some more web-available information for those
    transitioning to catalyst from other methods.

    To that end I'm soliciting your thoughts on things that you found
    particularly hard to get a grip on when you started using catalyst.
    (or that you are currently having trouble with)

    My intent is to pick the ones that are needed most and write them up
    (or sponsor).

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)
    Areas you could focus on:
    - Basic Form handling, implemented with a specific module: formfu, rose,
    etc..
    - Possibly: Form handling with AJAX
    - CRUD operations with multiple tables
    - Building your own "fat" model API, to put as much logic into your model
    and
    then use this API in your controllers.
    2) Basic Cat toolkit - the basic pieces you will want to produce your
    average web app.
    Deployment with FastCGI
    Putting dependencies in your Makefile.pl and how to install it on another
    box.
    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.
    Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need!

    But what kind of example are you planning to do? How about you cover CRUD,
    to
    build something like... "yet another Blog"? Have a couple of tables with
    relationships like author, story, tags, categories, comments... link them
    up
    with dbix::class, use formfu for the forms, and to make it interesting: add
    some ajax on the forms to validate the input, without reloading the page.
    keep the example simple, yet functional, so that others can build on it and
    extend it.

    I'd be interested in writing some parts of a tutorial like this. Let me
    know
    if you need some help writing documentation.

    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


    --
    Devin Austin
    http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost!
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  • Rodrigo de Oliveira at Feb 17, 2009 at 8:18 pm

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.
    Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need!
    And example apps!

    As a Catalyst beginner, I craved example apps the most (I still do!). While
    learning, I find it more productive checking out a small example app by both
    reading code and doing a run through the interface, rather than big
    walkthrough tutorials or pod copy-pasting. Also, tiny apps can easily be
    used as quick-starters for your real apps, sorta like the next step up from
    Catalyst::Helper modules.

    The stuff in the wiki and
    http://dev.catalystframework.org/repos/Catalyst/trunk/examples/ may serve as
    a starting point. CPAN also hosts some apps, including MojoMojo. And I'm
    sure we all have many small test apps laying around we can just tarball and
    share.


    -rodrigo
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  • Devin Austin at Feb 17, 2009 at 10:02 pm
    Rodrigo,

    If you have any, you're more than welcome to ask for SVN permissions to
    check in some. I know i have a few example apps I'd like to show off in
    /examples
    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Rodrigo wrote:

    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.
    Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need!
    And example apps!

    As a Catalyst beginner, I craved example apps the most (I still do!). While
    learning, I find it more productive checking out a small example app by both
    reading code and doing a run through the interface, rather than big
    walkthrough tutorials or pod copy-pasting. Also, tiny apps can easily be
    used as quick-starters for your real apps, sorta like the next step up from
    Catalyst::Helper modules.

    The stuff in the wiki and
    http://dev.catalystframework.org/repos/Catalyst/trunk/examples/ may serve
    as a starting point. CPAN also hosts some apps, including MojoMojo. And I'm
    sure we all have many small test apps laying around we can just tarball and
    share.


    -rodrigo

    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

    --
    Devin Austin
    http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost!
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  • Rodrigo de Oliveira at Feb 19, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Devin Austin wrote:

    Rodrigo,

    If you have any, you're more than welcome to ask for SVN permissions to
    check in some. I know i have a few example apps I'd like to show off in
    /examples
    Sure! Where can I request svn permissions?

    Actually, I'd like to work also on a sassier getting-started page for the
    dev.catalystframework.org/wiki <http://catalystframework.org> site. IMO, the
    Catalyst Wiki could get a makeover: some css styling (so that the wiki is
    aligned with the homepage), column separated content, more short description
    of links or sections, or anything that improves usability really, for
    beginners and experienced users alike.

    The CatalystFramework homepage, on the other hand, would benefit from a more
    dynamic "news" or "latest" section, so it won't be so static. Of course,
    that means maintaining it to keep it dynamic...

    But nothing fancy here. Content is certainly more important than looks. But
    the raw idea is to make information pop out, making things faster/easier to
    find.

    What do you think?

    -rodrigo
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  • Devin Austin at Feb 19, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Rodrigo wrote:
    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Devin Austin wrote:

    Rodrigo,

    If you have any, you're more than welcome to ask for SVN permissions to
    check in some. I know i have a few example apps I'd like to show off in
    /examples
    Sure! Where can I request svn permissions?

    Actually, I'd like to work also on a sassier getting-started page for the
    dev.catalystframework.org/wiki <http://catalystframework.org> site. IMO,
    the Catalyst Wiki could get a makeover: some css styling (so that the wiki
    is aligned with the homepage), column separated content, more short
    description of links or sections, or anything that improves usability
    really, for beginners and experienced users alike.

    The CatalystFramework homepage, on the other hand, would benefit from a
    more dynamic "news" or "latest" section, so it won't be so static. Of
    course, that means maintaining it to keep it dynamic...

    But nothing fancy here. Content is certainly more important than looks. But
    the raw idea is to make information pop out, making things faster/easier to
    find.

    What do you think?

    -rodrigo
    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk
    Listinfo: http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst@lists.scsys.co.uk/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
    Rodrigo,
    typically /msg'ing mst in #catalyst and making sure it's okay is a start.
    then you just generate an htpasswd username/password pair and /msg him that
    as well.

    --
    Devin Austin
    http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?326568/hosting.html - Host with DreamHost!
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  • Trevor Phillips at Feb 20, 2009 at 1:18 am

    On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:41 AM, Rodrigo wrote:
    Actually, I'd like to work also on a sassier getting-started page for the
    dev.catalystframework.org/wiki site. IMO, the Catalyst Wiki could get a
    makeover: some css styling (so that the wiki is aligned with the homepage),
    column separated content, more short description of links or sections, or
    anything that improves usability really, for beginners and experienced users
    alike.
    I agree that the Wiki could do with some work, although I don't mind
    the style so much. ^_^ I do think it could be a little better
    organised, and promoted though. Also, I think having a prominent "last
    modified" date on a Wiki page is a useful indication, and maybe even a
    Catalyst Version reference for howtos & code snippets. (Again, a
    specialist knowledge base could handle that sort of data & filtering
    better than a Wiki I think).

    What is the "best practices" for Wiki updates?

    Should new articles be posted to this list first, for discussion, or
    should they be just whacked into the Wiki, then posted here for
    review/deletion?

    Is there an alert/review process for Wiki edits? Is there a core team
    that will be notified of changes/additions, so they can review/delete?

    As someone fairly new to Catalyst, I'm happy to contribute, but I'm
    hesitant to jump in & start making changes & additions... Perhaps
    there should be a prominent page on the Wiki on how to best contribute
    to the Wiki?

    Here's some quick observations on things I think could be clearer on
    the main Catalyst site too:
    *The main site "Community" link goes straight to the Wiki. How about
    a Community page that summarises the Wiki, the mail list, the IRC
    channel, etc...
    *The main site "Documentation" goes straight to the manual - yet
    there's also documentation in the Wiki. Again, Docs page which deep
    links into key pages in the official docs and parts of the Wiki would
    be better IMHO.
    *The main site "Developer" jumps straight into the Catalyst
    repository (hmmm, there's a theme here). How about clarifying
    resources for Developers who work on Catalyst versus Developers who
    use Catalyst to develop apps?

    --
    Trevor Phillips - http://dortamur.livejournal.com/
    "On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of
    course. But mostly evil, on the whole."
    -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
  • Dan Dascalescu at Feb 20, 2009 at 7:21 am
    Regarding wiki questions:

    The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org), a project
    led by Marcus Ramberg. I tend to do a bit of coding too, and more
    advocacy and managing ideas. We've set up a feedback board for
    MojoMojo at http://mojomojo.ideascale.com/. To join the MojoMojo team,
    hang out in #mojomojo on irc.perl.org, or fork mojomojo off github, do
    your patch, then submit a pull request.

    Rodrigo,
    MojoMojo now supports custom styles. A different theme can be seen at
    http://nordaaker.no/wiki/. We think the typography needs improvement,
    and a Mediawiki-like theme would be very good to have.

    Trevor,
    The practice so far has been to post articles on the wiki, which then
    get corrected by the community, just as it happens with other wikis.
    Pretty much everyone agrees that newbies write the best documentation.
    If something wrong slips into your article, it will be corrected down
    the line. So feel free to dive ahead after having a look at the main
    structure and searching the wiki. It's usually faster to go ahead and
    fix things, e.g.
    There's also, it seems, a quite extensive Cookbook in the CPAN documentation -
    yet the Wiki doesn't link to it or mention it?
    It took less than 30 seconds to add a link to
    Catalyst::Manual::Cookbook on the main page.

    There is currently no e-mail notification about changes to the wiki,
    but this is on the list:
    http://mojomojo.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/11563-2416. In the meantime,
    there is a list of recent changes at
    http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/wiki/.recent
    Also, I think having a prominent "last modified" date on a Wiki page is a useful indication
    Good idea. I just pushed a fix for that. mst will hopefully update
    Catwiki to the latest MojoMojo.

    HTH,
    Dan
  • Octavian Rasnita at Feb 20, 2009 at 9:49 am
    From: "Dan Dascalescu" <ddascalescu+catalyst@gmail.com>
    Regarding wiki questions:

    The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org),
    Too bad that it doesn't run under Windows.

    Octavian
  • Kieren Diment at Feb 20, 2009 at 9:57 am

    On 20/02/2009, at 8:49 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

    From: "Dan Dascalescu" <ddascalescu+catalyst@gmail.com>
    Regarding wiki questions:

    The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org),
    Too bad that it doesn't run under Windows.
    Why not? I can't think of any practical reason why it wouldn't.
  • Octavian Rasnita at Feb 20, 2009 at 10:14 am
    From: "Kieren Diment" <kieren@diment.org>
    On 20/02/2009, at 8:49 PM, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

    From: "Dan Dascalescu" <ddascalescu+catalyst@gmail.com>
    Regarding wiki questions:

    The Catalyst wiki runs on MojoMojo (http://mojomojo.org),
    Too bad that it doesn't run under Windows.
    Why not? I can't think of any practical reason why it wouldn't.
    First I was not able to install File::NFSLock with cpan, but I found a ppm distribution for it.
    But I've seen that after doing this, more other cpan modules couldn't be installed, and one of them is Cache::FastMmap which I know that it can't be installed under Windows.

    Octavian
  • Rodrigo de Oliveira at Feb 20, 2009 at 10:21 am

    First I was not able to install File::NFSLock with cpan, but I found a ppm
    distribution for it.
    But I've seen that after doing this, more other cpan modules couldn't be
    installed, and one of them is Cache::FastMmap which I know that it can't be
    installed under Windows.
    I switched Cache::FastMmap for Cache::FileCache (in MojoMojo.pm) which seems
    to work fine, but I haven't run a full test suite or used in production. I
    didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest
    Strawberry version.

    -rodrigo
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  • Octavian Rasnita at Feb 20, 2009 at 12:06 pm
    From: "Rodrigo" <rodrigolive@gmail.com>
    First I was not able to install File::NFSLock with cpan, but I found a ppm
    distribution for it.
    But I've seen that after doing this, more other cpan modules couldn't be
    installed, and one of them is Cache::FastMmap which I know that it can't be
    installed under Windows.
    I switched Cache::FastMmap for Cache::FileCache (in MojoMojo.pm) which seems
    to work fine, but I haven't run a full test suite or used in production. I
    didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest
    Strawberry version.

    -rodrigo
    I've just tried to do the same thing using ActivePerl, but without success. Cache::memory can't be installed with cpan, and I also couldn't find a ppm distribution for it.

    I don't know if Strawberry can be used with Active State's Perl Developer Kit and I think it might appear some conflicts if I would have 2 perl distributions installed in the same time...

    Octavian
  • Rodrigo de Oliveira at Feb 20, 2009 at 10:32 am

    On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Dan Dascalescu < ddascalescu+catalyst@gmail.com wrote:


    Rodrigo,
    MojoMojo now supports custom styles. A different theme can be seen at
    http://nordaaker.no/wiki/. We think the typography needs improvement,
    and a Mediawiki-like theme would be very good to have.
    I know. I brute-forced the main catalystframework.org css into a MojoMojo
    theme to see how it would look. I'm not a web-designer, so don't expect
    wonders... You can see it here:

    http://rodrigolive.googlepages.com/catmojo.jpg

    Is the Catalyst Wiki code in the svn repository or backed-up somewhere? I
    think it would be good to have a development version (with the current
    content snapshot) so I can work on a makeover.
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  • Dan Dascalescu at Feb 20, 2009 at 11:28 am

    http://rodrigolive.googlepages.com/catmojo.jpg
    Wow, quite neat, really.
    I didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest Strawberry version.
    I did, and I'm not the only one:
    http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id@185

    PS: Cache::Memory is a bogus dependency. I just removed it.
  • Octavian Rasnita at Feb 20, 2009 at 1:31 pm
    From: "Dan Dascalescu" <ddascalescu+catalyst@gmail.com>
    I didn't have a problem with File::NFSLock compiling with the latest Strawberry version.
    I did, and I'm not the only one:
    http://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id@185

    PS: Cache::Memory is a bogus dependency. I just removed it.
    I have also removed it, but I found that I can't install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn with cpan, and there is no ppm distribution for it.

    Octavian
  • Rodrigo de Oliveira at Feb 20, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    I have also removed it, but I found that I can't install
    DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn with cpan, and there is no ppm distribution for
    it.

    Octavian
    Wow. I haven't had a problem with that either, in at least 5 different XP
    machines. Are you running Vista? What's the error?

    I'm using the October 2008 versions, so I've just downloaded Jan 2009
    Strawberry 5.10.0.4, installed it to c:\strawberry, ran cpan, then "notest
    install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn" and it installed it ok. On the other
    hand, DBIx::Class didn't due to SQLite issues, but EncodedColumn didn't seem
    to care. Obviously that would need some testing, but as far as installation
    goes, it seems to be fine.
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  • Octavian Rasnita at Feb 20, 2009 at 3:48 pm
    From: Rodrigo
    I have also removed it, but I found that I can't install DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn with cpan, and there is no ppm distribution for it.
    Wow. I haven't had a problem with that either, in at least 5 different XP machines. Are you running Vista? What's the error?
    I run Win XP Pro SP3. The error is below.

    I think the relevant error is:

    t/02digest....1/32 Can't call method "keysize" on an undefined value at E:/perl510/site/lib/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm line 525.

    I have tried a:

    cpan> install Crypt::OpenPGP

    But I received the message that this module is up to date.

    I use ActivePerl 5.10.0 build 1004.

    The full output is:

    CPAN.pm: Going to build G/GR/GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.00002.tar.gz
    Cannot determine perl version info from lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn.pm
    Checking if your kit is complete...
    Looks good
    Writing Makefile for DBIx::Class::EncodedColumn
    Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility Version 8.00.50727.42
    Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
    cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn/Crypt/Eksblowfish/Bcrypt.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn\Crypt\Eksblowfish\Bcrypt.pm
    cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn.pm
    cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn/Digest.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn\Digest.pm
    cp lib/DBIx/Class/EncodedColumn/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm blib\lib\DBIx\Class\EncodedColumn\Crypt\OpenPGP.pm
    GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.00002.tar.gz
    nmake -- OK
    Running make test
    Microsoft (R) Program Maintenance Utility Version 8.00.50727.42
    Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
    E:\perl510\bin\perl.exe "-MExtUtils::Command::MM" "-e" "test_harness(0, 'inc', 'blib\lib', 'blib\arch')" t/*.t
    t/01load......ok
    t/02digest....1/32 Can't call method "keysize" on an undefined value at E:/perl510/site/lib/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm line 525.
    # Looks like you planned 32 tests but ran 26.
    # Looks like your test exited with 2 just after 26.
    t/02digest.... Dubious, test returned 2 (wstat 512, 0x200)
    Failed 6/32 subtests
    Test Summary Report
    -------------------
    t/02digest (Wstat: 512 Tests: 26 Failed: 0)
    Non-zero exit status: 2
    Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 32 tests but ran 26.
    Files=2, Tests=27, 2 wallclock secs ( 0.03 usr + 0.00 sys = 0.03 CPU)
    Result: FAIL
    Failed 1/2 test programs. 0/27 subtests failed.
    NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'E:\perl510\bin\perl.exe' : return code '0x2'
    Stop.
    GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.00002.tar.gz
    nmake test -- NOT OK
    //hint// to see the cpan-testers results for installing this module, try:
    reports GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.00002.tar.gz
    Running make install
    make test had returned bad status, won't install without force
    Failed during this command:
    GRODITI/DBIx-Class-EncodedColumn-0.00002.tar.gz: make_test NO
    cpan>
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  • Rodrigo de Oliveira at Feb 20, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    I think the relevant error is:
    t/02digest....1/32 Can't call method "keysize" on an undefined value at
    E:/perl510/site/lib/Crypt/OpenPGP.pm line 525.
    I have tried a:

    cpan> install Crypt::OpenPGP

    But I received the message that this module is up to date.

    I use ActivePerl 5.10.0 build 1004.
    (I'm moving this to a new thread, "windows install issues")
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  • Marcus Ramberg at Feb 20, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Rodrigo wrote:

    On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Dan Dascalescu <
    ddascalescu+catalyst@gmail.com wrote:
    Rodrigo,
    MojoMojo now supports custom styles. A different theme can be seen at
    http://nordaaker.no/wiki/. We think the typography needs improvement,
    and a Mediawiki-like theme would be very good to have.
    I know. I brute-forced the main catalystframework.org css into a MojoMojo
    theme to see how it would look. I'm not a web-designer, so don't expect
    wonders... You can see it here:

    http://rodrigolive.googlepages.com/catmojo.jpg

    Is the Catalyst Wiki code in the svn repository or backed-up somewhere? I
    think it would be good to have a development version (with the current
    content snapshot) so I can work on a makeover.
    Looks nice.

    MojoMojo is hosted in git. You can check it out from
    http://github.com/marcusramberg/mojomojo/tree/master. There is a sql
    snapshot with the user passwords stripped out at
    http://dev.thefeed.no/stuff/wiki_dump.sql.gz . We are quite interested in
    getting a catalyst theme for mojomojo.


    With regards
    Marcus Ramberg
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  • Tomas Doran at Feb 20, 2009 at 9:13 am

    On 20 Feb 2009, at 01:18, Trevor Phillips wrote:
    What is the "best practices" for Wiki updates?
    There isn't one specifically.
    Should new articles be posted to this list first, for discussion, or
    should they be just whacked into the Wiki, then posted here for
    review/deletion?
    I'd do the latter, as it doesn't block getting your content out and
    editable by a bunch of people. If people don't care - they won't read
    your list post, if they do care then it's going to be easier for
    everyone to contribute if the text is in the wiki than if you have to
    tease apart a mailing list thread of comments and re-post.

    Although giving the list heads up if you add anything significant
    that you'd like reviewing is totally cool :)
    Is there an alert/review process for Wiki edits? Is there a core team
    that will be notified of changes/additions, so they can review/delete?
    No, there isn't.
    As someone fairly new to Catalyst, I'm happy to contribute, but I'm
    hesitant to jump in & start making changes & additions... Perhaps
    there should be a prominent page on the Wiki on how to best contribute
    to the Wiki?
    Well done, you just volunteered to write that page (and some others
    if I was hearing right) :)

    Cheers
    t0m
  • Zbigniew Lukasiak at Feb 19, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Rodrigo wrote:
    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.
    Yes please, a full example tutorial is just what we need!
    And example apps!
    You might try Catalyst::Example::InstantCRUD - it is a scaffolding
    (ala Rails) - but you can also treat it as an example generator. It
    generates example applications with CRUD operations on the tables from
    your database (or if you don't provide a DSN - from the example
    database it can generate).

    It is a work in progress.
  • Trevor Phillips at Feb 18, 2009 at 2:06 am

    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Jay Kuri wrote:
    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)
    I'm new to Catalyst, having started to look into it a few months back
    (and now developing several apps in it). The auto-schema stuff on
    DBIx::Class was great. All the has_many & many_to_many it took a while
    to wrap my brain around, and I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of it, but
    referring back to the docs, I can figure it out.

    Trying to do a moderately complex SQL query in DBIx::Class is a
    nightmare! Sometimes I wish I could just write out the SQL myself -
    even if it's chunked up into fields, condition, join, etc...
    3) Walkthrough of creation of a simple app end to end.
    I found the Tutorial walkthrough
    (http://search.cpan.org/~hkclark/Catalyst-Manual-5.7016/lib/Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial.pod)
    to be great as a kick-start. I just wish the Advanced CRUD was a bit
    more fleshed out (or that FormFu was easily apt-gettable). Having a
    branching tutorial with some alternatives (such as something other
    than TT, for example) would be good.

    I think what I miss most is:
    *A quick reference "howto" guide for common (and advanced) stuff. How
    do I get a HTTP header? How do I set a response status? How do I have
    a wrapper template, yet also support other forms of output like
    AJAX/JSON/XML? What does this method or that method do and where
    should they be used? How can I use two separate Authentication systems
    for different parts of the app? Just brief FAQ-style code snippets
    with good explanations... (Maybe someone could whip up a Catalyst FAQ
    app to handle question submissions, community answers, categorisation,
    searching, etc... Would be better IMHO than a single Wiki page... ^_^)
    *Clarification on the Path and Args (and others?) sub parameters,
    with examples on advanced usage.
    *Best Practices - I guess this comes in to the earlier points as
    well. Rather than munge something together that works, if I can easily
    find a code snippet that does a similar thing, then I'll use that
    snippet. For example; How do I provide a controller which handles both
    a HTML and an AJAX response? How do I specify the AJAX qualifier in
    the query string? Do I use a query parameter? Or append something like
    ":ajax" to the URI? Or go to a completely separate URI? How do I set
    out my Controller methods to most efficiently handle both situations
    without code duplication?
    *Interactive Demo/Tuts would be really good. If there's so many CRUD
    systems to choose from, then having a live demo of each next to the
    relevant code snippet would really help quickly highlight the pros &
    cons of each.
    *Better linking/cataloguing to documentation. For example, the Wiki
    seems to have a Cookbook, with a handful of articles. There's also, it
    seems, a quite extensive Cookbook in the CPAN documentation - yet the
    Wiki doesn't link to it or mention it?

    As I said, I found the Tutorial to be really good, but I find I'm
    using the Tutorial as my documentation for my own app, rather than
    looking straight in the manual, or in the wiki resources... The Manual
    Cookbook seems good - I should use it more often.

    I'm pretty new to the Catalyst community, and still very much a
    Catalyst newbie. I don't know how open this list is to having the same
    n00b questions asked over & over again. I'd be happy to write up a few
    "howto's" myself, as I discover stuff, but I'm not confident I'm doing
    things the "right" way anyway, or if people would care about the same
    topics I struggle with, or where the best place to document this sort
    of Cookbook/FAQ stuff is...

    --
    Trevor Phillips - http://dortamur.livejournal.com/
    "On nights such as this, evil deeds are done. And good deeds, of
    course. But mostly evil, on the whole."
    -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters)
  • Jay Shirley at Feb 18, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Trevor Phillips wrote:
    On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:32 AM, Jay Kuri wrote:

    My working list is as follows (in no particular order.)

    1) 'Getting' DBIx::Class (starting from a straight SQL-users point of
    view)
    I'm new to Catalyst, having started to look into it a few months back
    (and now developing several apps in it). The auto-schema stuff on
    DBIx::Class was great. All the has_many & many_to_many it took a while
    to wrap my brain around, and I'm still a bit fuzzy on some of it, but
    referring back to the docs, I can figure it out.

    Trying to do a moderately complex SQL query in DBIx::Class is a
    nightmare! Sometimes I wish I could just write out the SQL myself -
    even if it's chunked up into fields, condition, join, etc...
    This is called a learning curve :) When you first started to learn
    SQL, you wrote very simple queries and worked your way up.

    I've been using DBIC for a few years, and now I have resultset methods
    that can be chained so I can filter and refine queries in ways I would
    never even expect. Sure, sometimes I get frustrated because I can
    write the SQL but can't quite sort out how to do it in DBIC but I can
    at least patch DBIC!

    -J
  • Kenny Gatdula at Feb 19, 2009 at 3:24 am

    On Feb 17, 2009, at 9:06 PM, Trevor Phillips wrote:
    I'm pretty new to the Catalyst community, and still very much a
    Catalyst newbie. I don't know how open this list is to having the same
    n00b questions asked over & over again. I'd be happy to write up a few
    "howto's" myself, as I discover stuff, but I'm not confident I'm doing
    things the "right" way anyway, or if people would care about the same
    topics I struggle with, or where the best place to document this sort
    of Cookbook/FAQ stuff is...
    Welcome! We're all on this list because we either use or care about
    this framework.

    Help yourself, and others! http://dev.catalystframework.org/wiki/

    Kenny

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