FAQ
http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm

They're having a platform war. We're forever left out of the ruby vs. python
games, the "enterprise" people ignore us (though really, I'm not sure I mind
that :) but ...

"We have been considering Perl as one of the platforms to be admitted to the
contest. So far, we have decided against it because we believe that too few
professionals use it professionally for us to hope to get enough requests for
admittance for the Perl platform.

If you are a team that would like to participate and would like to use Perl,
please contact prechelt at inf.fu-berlin.de (Lutz Prechelt)."

This is a bit of a shotgun e-mail. Several list admins are probably going to
attempt to track me down and shoot me in the head. I don't care.

Our community has repeatedly failed to market it's way out of a paper bag,
I've even helped contribute to this with my eminently forgettable London Web
Frameworks Night talk. But this is about producing working code. *That* we
know we can do.

Stand up and be counted. It's gotta be good for a laugh if nothing else.

*dons asbestos suit, hides under desk*

--
Matt S Trout Offering custom development, consultancy and support
Technical Director contracts for Catalyst, DBIx::Class and BAST. Contact
Shadowcat Systems Ltd. mst (at) shadowcatsystems.co.uk for more information

+ Help us build a better perl ORM: http://dbix-class.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ +

Search Discussions

  • John Napiorkowski at Oct 11, 2006 at 8:14 pm

    -- Matt S Trout wrote:

    http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm

    They're having a platform war. We're forever left
    out of the ruby vs. python
    games, the "enterprise" people ignore us (though
    really, I'm not sure I mind
    that :) but ...

    "We have been considering Perl as one of the
    platforms to be admitted to the
    contest. So far, we have decided against it because
    we believe that too few
    professionals use it professionally for us to hope
    to get enough requests for
    admittance for the Perl platform.

    If you are a team that would like to participate and
    would like to use Perl,
    please contact prechelt at inf.fu-berlin.de (Lutz
    Prechelt)."

    This is a bit of a shotgun e-mail. Several list
    admins are probably going to
    attempt to track me down and shoot me in the head. I
    don't care.

    Our community has repeatedly failed to market it's
    way out of a paper bag,
    I've even helped contribute to this with my
    eminently forgettable London Web
    Frameworks Night talk. But this is about producing
    working code. *That* we
    know we can do.

    Stand up and be counted. It's gotta be good for a
    laugh if nothing else.

    From bogus@does.not.exist.com Tue Oct 10 10:21:22 2006
    From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
    Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:21:22 -0000
    Subject: No subject
    Message-ID: <mailman.1.1160598159.784.catalyst@lists.rawmode.org>

    more for requests from teams that would actually be
    willing to go to Germany on the competition date. I'm
    not sure if we all just wrote, "Hey I'm an IT
    consultant using Perl/Catalyst or
    Perl/FrameworkOfChoice and think you are making a big
    mistake not putting Perl on your list." if that would
    sway them.

    They are betting no one will put up the cash to
    sponsor a Perl team. And they are looking for several
    teams for each platform, enough to make a contest
    between developers in a platform meaningful.

    The rules specify that they won't be comparing
    platforms, so their won't be any, "Perl versus ROR
    verus J2EE" going on. So that's why they want enough
    people for a given platform to show up.

    Now if we could identify some awesome Catalyst
    developers who could are willing and available to go
    to the contest and then raise money to send them I
    think it could raise their attention. We have to
    decide if this particular contest represents a good
    investment of our time and cash. Perhaps some of the
    local or reasonable local Perl Mongers could send some
    teams? It would show the strength of the community.

    Anyone know more about the actual status and
    recognition of this contest? Would having perl
    programmers at it meaningfully add to our mindshare in
    the enterprise?

    --john
    *dons asbestos suit, hides under desk*

    --
    Matt S Trout Offering custom
    development, consultancy and support
    Technical Director contracts for Catalyst,
    DBIx::Class and BAST. Contact
    Shadowcat Systems Ltd. mst (at)
    shadowcatsystems.co.uk for more information

    + Help us build a better perl ORM:
    http://dbix-class.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ +

    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst at lists.rawmode.org
    Listinfo:
    http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst at lists.rawmode.org/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

    __________________________________________________
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    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
    http://mail.yahoo.com
  • Kieren Diment at Oct 11, 2006 at 11:53 pm

    On 12/10/06, John Napiorkowski wrote:
    [snip]



    They are betting no one will put up the cash to
    sponsor a Perl team. And they are looking for several
    teams for each platform, enough to make a contest
    between developers in a platform meaningful.


    Perhaps perl has been *ahem* promoted from "the duct tape of the internet"
    to "the duct tape of the enterprise".

    Of course if all that's stopping your shiny space shuttle from becoming an
    expensive meteorite is a few bits of duct tape, you'd want to keep that
    quiet too ;)
    -------------- next part --------------
    An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
    URL: http://lists.rawmode.org/pipermail/catalyst/attachments/20061012/cbd397ac/attachment.htm
  • Dami Laurent (PJ) at Oct 12, 2006 at 12:22 pm

    -----Message d'origine-----
    De : catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org
    [mailto:catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org] De la part de
    John Napiorkowski
    Envoy? : mercredi, 11. octobre 2006 22:15
    ? : The elegant MVC web framework
    Objet : Re: [Catalyst] Gentlemen, a call to arms!

    -- Matt S Trout wrote:
    http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm

    They're having a platform war. We're forever left out of
    the ruby vs.
    python games, the "enterprise" people ignore us (though really, I'm
    not sure I mind that :) but ...

    "We have been considering Perl as one of the platforms to
    be admitted
    to the contest. So far, we have decided against it because
    we believe
    that too few professionals use it professionally for us to
    hope to get
    enough requests for admittance for the Perl platform.

    If you are a team that would like to participate and would
    like to use
    Perl, please contact prechelt at inf.fu-berlin.de (Lutz Prechelt)."

    This is a bit of a shotgun e-mail. Several list admins are probably
    going to attempt to track me down and shoot me in the head. I don't
    care.

    Our community has repeatedly failed to market it's way out
    of a paper
    bag, I've even helped contribute to this with my eminently
    forgettable
    London Web Frameworks Night talk. But this is about
    producing working
    code. *That* we know we can do.

    Stand up and be counted. It's gotta be good for a laugh if nothing
    else.
    From reading that webpage I think they are looking more for
    requests from teams that would actually be willing to go to
    Germany on the competition date. I'm not sure if we all just
    wrote, "Hey I'm an IT consultant using Perl/Catalyst or
    Perl/FrameworkOfChoice and think you are making a big mistake
    not putting Perl on your list." if that would sway them.

    They are betting no one will put up the cash to sponsor a
    Perl team. And they are looking for several teams for each
    platform, enough to make a contest between developers in a
    platform meaningful.

    The rules specify that they won't be comparing platforms, so
    their won't be any, "Perl versus ROR verus J2EE" going on.
    So that's why they want enough people for a given platform to show up.

    Now if we could identify some awesome Catalyst developers who
    could are willing and available to go to the contest and then
    raise money to send them I think it could raise their
    attention. We have to decide if this particular contest
    represents a good investment of our time and cash. Perhaps
    some of the local or reasonable local Perl Mongers could send
    some teams? It would show the strength of the community.

    Anyone know more about the actual status and recognition of
    this contest? Would having perl programmers at it
    meaningfully add to our mindshare in the enterprise?

    --john
    Hi all,

    I think this contest is a very good opportunity for Perl and Catalyst to get more recognition. About the status of this contest, I guess nobody knows much more than what is on the website, but I can imagine that the final report will have quite a broad audience. The previous paper by Lutz Prechelt (An empirical comparison of seven programming languages) is cited quite often, as it is one of the very few sources for a fully objective comparison of several languages, ignoring the hype and religious wars.

    As John wrote, the best way to convince the organisers to change their mind is if they get several requests from Perl teams to participate in the contest. The call for participation says "Preferably, all three participants should come from the same organization". So, if your organisation is using Perl/Catalyst -- I hope there are more than a few nowadays -- , then please write to the contest organizers saying that you would like a Perl track to be opened. Also, we should probably alert the Jifty, Maypole, CGI::Application, etc. communities to join that lobbying effort.

    Laurent Dami.
  • Sascha Kiefer at Oct 12, 2006 at 5:19 pm
    Okay. It's done.
    Perl is now among the choices: http://www.plat-forms.org/
    (http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm)
    But we just won a battle, not the war yet.
    So, lets bring it on.

    We should at least get 2 teams that already live in germany.
    And maybe we can give a cent ot two for a foreign team.

    Myself is living in dubai right now. so i'm not sure if I'm able to
    participate at all.

    Hang loose,
    --esskar
    -----Original Message-----
    From: catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org
    [mailto:catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org] On Behalf Of Dami
    Laurent (PJ)
    Sent: Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2006 16:22
    To: The elegant MVC web framework
    Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Gentlemen, a call to arms!


    -----Message d'origine-----
    De : catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org
    [mailto:catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org] De la part de John
    Napiorkowski Envoy? : mercredi, 11. octobre 2006 22:15 ? :
    The elegant
    MVC web framework Objet : Re: [Catalyst] Gentlemen, a call to arms!

    -- Matt S Trout wrote:
    http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm

    They're having a platform war. We're forever left out of
    the ruby vs.
    python games, the "enterprise" people ignore us (though
    really, I'm
    not sure I mind that :) but ...

    "We have been considering Perl as one of the platforms to
    be admitted
    to the contest. So far, we have decided against it because
    we believe
    that too few professionals use it professionally for us to
    hope to get
    enough requests for admittance for the Perl platform.

    If you are a team that would like to participate and would
    like to use
    Perl, please contact prechelt at inf.fu-berlin.de (Lutz Prechelt)."

    This is a bit of a shotgun e-mail. Several list admins
    are probably
    going to attempt to track me down and shoot me in the
    head. I don't
    care.

    Our community has repeatedly failed to market it's way out
    of a paper
    bag, I've even helped contribute to this with my eminently
    forgettable
    London Web Frameworks Night talk. But this is about
    producing working
    code. *That* we know we can do.

    Stand up and be counted. It's gotta be good for a laugh
    if nothing
    else.
    From reading that webpage I think they are looking more for requests
    from teams that would actually be willing to go to Germany on the
    competition date. I'm not sure if we all just wrote, "Hey I'm an IT
    consultant using Perl/Catalyst or Perl/FrameworkOfChoice
    and think you
    are making a big mistake not putting Perl on your list." if
    that would
    sway them.

    They are betting no one will put up the cash to sponsor a
    Perl team.
    And they are looking for several teams for each platform, enough to
    make a contest between developers in a platform meaningful.

    The rules specify that they won't be comparing platforms, so their
    won't be any, "Perl versus ROR verus J2EE" going on.
    So that's why they want enough people for a given platform
    to show up.
    Now if we could identify some awesome Catalyst developers who could
    are willing and available to go to the contest and then
    raise money to
    send them I think it could raise their attention. We have to decide
    if this particular contest represents a good investment of our time
    and cash. Perhaps some of the local or reasonable local
    Perl Mongers
    could send some teams? It would show the strength of the community.

    Anyone know more about the actual status and recognition of this
    contest? Would having perl programmers at it meaningfully
    add to our
    mindshare in the enterprise?

    --john
    Hi all,

    I think this contest is a very good opportunity for Perl and
    Catalyst to get more recognition. About the status of this
    contest, I guess nobody knows much more than what is on the
    website, but I can imagine that the final report will have
    quite a broad audience. The previous paper by Lutz Prechelt
    (An empirical comparison of seven programming languages) is
    cited quite often, as it is one of the very few sources for a
    fully objective comparison of several languages, ignoring the
    hype and religious wars.

    As John wrote, the best way to convince the organisers to
    change their mind is if they get several requests from Perl
    teams to participate in the contest. The call for
    participation says "Preferably, all three participants should
    come from the same organization". So, if your organisation is
    using Perl/Catalyst -- I hope there are more than a few
    nowadays -- , then please write to the contest organizers
    saying that you would like a Perl track to be opened. Also,
    we should probably alert the Jifty, Maypole,
    CGI::Application, etc. communities to join that lobbying effort.

    Laurent Dami.


    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst at lists.rawmode.org
    Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst at lists.rawmode.org/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/
  • Roland Lammel at Oct 13, 2006 at 8:54 am
    From bogus@does.not.exist.com Tue Oct 10 10:21:22 2006
    From: bogus@does.not.exist.com ()
    Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:21:22 -0000
    Subject: No subject
    Message-ID: <mailman.2.1160730152.784.catalyst@lists.rawmode.org>

    commitee, to help decide on the teams to be allowed for the contest and
    actually choose a winner. This is going to be hard for a Java guy to tell
    which cat app is actually better.

    So if a Perl Pro or even a cat hacker is on the list who lives near
    Nürnberg, Germany, this is your chance to become known in the enterprise
    world (become a star, get rich, well maybe).

    Should the teams be coordinate here or just apply themselves and we'll see
    how it works out.
    (I know the we'll see approach from $work, which usually means, well do it
    next year... and then next year)

    I'm going to inform my local perl group, maybe we'll get a team of catalyst
    hackers together.

    Any core or near core cat developers living near Nürnberg and are willing to
    join?

    BR

    +rl
    On 10/12/06, Sascha Kiefer wrote:

    Okay. It's done.
    Perl is now among the choices: http://www.plat-forms.org/
    (http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm)
    But we just won a battle, not the war yet.
    So, lets bring it on.

    We should at least get 2 teams that already live in germany.
    And maybe we can give a cent ot two for a foreign team.

    Myself is living in dubai right now. so i'm not sure if I'm able to
    participate at all.

    Hang loose,
    --esskar
    -----Original Message-----
    From: catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org
    [mailto:catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org] On Behalf Of Dami
    Laurent (PJ)
    Sent: Donnerstag, 12. Oktober 2006 16:22
    To: The elegant MVC web framework
    Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Gentlemen, a call to arms!


    -----Message d'origine-----
    De : catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org
    [mailto:catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org] De la part de John
    Napiorkowski Envoyé : mercredi, 11. octobre 2006 22:15 À :
    The elegant
    MVC web framework Objet : Re: [Catalyst] Gentlemen, a call to arms!

    -- Matt S Trout wrote:
    http://www.plat-forms.org/faq.htm

    They're having a platform war. We're forever left out of
    the ruby vs.
    python games, the "enterprise" people ignore us (though
    really, I'm
    not sure I mind that :) but ...

    "We have been considering Perl as one of the platforms to
    be admitted
    to the contest. So far, we have decided against it because
    we believe
    that too few professionals use it professionally for us to
    hope to get
    enough requests for admittance for the Perl platform.

    If you are a team that would like to participate and would
    like to use
    Perl, please contact prechelt at inf.fu-berlin.de (Lutz Prechelt)."

    This is a bit of a shotgun e-mail. Several list admins
    are probably
    going to attempt to track me down and shoot me in the
    head. I don't
    care.

    Our community has repeatedly failed to market it's way out
    of a paper
    bag, I've even helped contribute to this with my eminently
    forgettable
    London Web Frameworks Night talk. But this is about
    producing working
    code. *That* we know we can do.

    Stand up and be counted. It's gotta be good for a laugh
    if nothing
    else.
    From reading that webpage I think they are looking more for requests
    from teams that would actually be willing to go to Germany on the
    competition date. I'm not sure if we all just wrote, "Hey I'm an IT
    consultant using Perl/Catalyst or Perl/FrameworkOfChoice
    and think you
    are making a big mistake not putting Perl on your list." if
    that would
    sway them.

    They are betting no one will put up the cash to sponsor a
    Perl team.
    And they are looking for several teams for each platform, enough to
    make a contest between developers in a platform meaningful.

    The rules specify that they won't be comparing platforms, so their
    won't be any, "Perl versus ROR verus J2EE" going on.
    So that's why they want enough people for a given platform
    to show up.
    Now if we could identify some awesome Catalyst developers who could
    are willing and available to go to the contest and then
    raise money to
    send them I think it could raise their attention. We have to decide
    if this particular contest represents a good investment of our time
    and cash. Perhaps some of the local or reasonable local
    Perl Mongers
    could send some teams? It would show the strength of the community.

    Anyone know more about the actual status and recognition of this
    contest? Would having perl programmers at it meaningfully
    add to our
    mindshare in the enterprise?

    --john
    Hi all,

    I think this contest is a very good opportunity for Perl and
    Catalyst to get more recognition. About the status of this
    contest, I guess nobody knows much more than what is on the
    website, but I can imagine that the final report will have
    quite a broad audience. The previous paper by Lutz Prechelt
    (An empirical comparison of seven programming languages) is
    cited quite often, as it is one of the very few sources for a
    fully objective comparison of several languages, ignoring the
    hype and religious wars.

    As John wrote, the best way to convince the organisers to
    change their mind is if they get several requests from Perl
    teams to participate in the contest. The call for
    participation says "Preferably, all three participants should
    come from the same organization". So, if your organisation is
    using Perl/Catalyst -- I hope there are more than a few
    nowadays -- , then please write to the contest organizers
    saying that you would like a Perl track to be opened. Also,
    we should probably alert the Jifty, Maypole,
    CGI::Application, etc. communities to join that lobbying effort.

    Laurent Dami.


    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst at lists.rawmode.org
    Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst at lists.rawmode.org/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst at lists.rawmode.org
    Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst at lists.rawmode.org/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/


    --
    Roland Lammel

    "Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two."

    ------=_Part_31492_1236838.1160729676250
    Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Content-Disposition: inline
  • Matt S Trout at Oct 13, 2006 at 6:01 pm

    On 13 Oct 2006, at 09:54, Roland Lammel wrote:

    From what I read it seems that a Perl "professional" should be in
    the commitee, to help decide on the teams to be allowed for the
    contest and actually choose a winner. This is going to be hard for
    a Java guy to tell which cat app is actually better.

    So if a Perl Pro or even a cat hacker is on the list who lives near
    N?rnberg, Germany, this is your chance to become known in the
    enterprise world (become a star, get rich, well maybe).
    Dunno if I can be there in person to do so but I've already
    volunteered to help judge.

    --
    Matt S Trout, Technical Director, Shadowcat Systems Ltd.
    Offering custom development, consultancy and support contracts for
    Catalyst,
    DBIx::Class and BAST. Contact mst (at) shadowcatsystems.co.uk for
    details.
    + Help us build a better perl ORM: http://dbix-
    class.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ +
  • Sascha Kiefer at Oct 14, 2006 at 6:40 pm
    Ok,

    We should get this organized.
    We opened the irc chanel #plat_forms on irc.perl.org.
    The German Perl Workshop will spend some money to get good people to the
    contest.
    And I will open a paypal account for donations as soon I see that somebody
    is
    really interessted => means i see a "professional" team! :)

    --sk
    -----Original Message-----
    From: catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org
    [mailto:catalyst-bounces at lists.rawmode.org] On Behalf Of Matt S Trout
    Sent: Freitag, 13. Oktober 2006 22:02
    To: The elegant MVC web framework
    Subject: Re: [Catalyst] Gentlemen, a call to arms!

    On 13 Oct 2006, at 09:54, Roland Lammel wrote:

    From what I read it seems that a Perl "professional" should be in the
    commitee, to help decide on the teams to be allowed for the contest
    and actually choose a winner. This is going to be hard for
    a Java guy
    to tell which cat app is actually better.

    So if a Perl Pro or even a cat hacker is on the list who lives near
    N?rnberg, Germany, this is your chance to become known in the
    enterprise world (become a star, get rich, well maybe).
    Dunno if I can be there in person to do so but I've already
    volunteered to help judge.

    --
    Matt S Trout, Technical Director, Shadowcat Systems Ltd.
    Offering custom development, consultancy and support
    contracts for Catalyst, DBIx::Class and BAST. Contact mst
    (at) shadowcatsystems.co.uk for details.
    + Help us build a better perl ORM: http://dbix-
    class.shadowcatsystems.co.uk/ +



    _______________________________________________
    List: Catalyst at lists.rawmode.org
    Listinfo: http://lists.rawmode.org/mailman/listinfo/catalyst
    Searchable archive:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/catalyst at lists.rawmode.org/
    Dev site: http://dev.catalyst.perl.org/

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groupcatalyst @
categoriescatalyst, perl
postedOct 11, '06 at 7:34p
activeOct 14, '06 at 6:40p
posts8
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websitecatalystframework.org
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