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I have taught some programming classes. It seems to me python is a good
choice for an introductory CS class since it has minimal key words, a
clean syntax, and lots of CS structures available. It also has good
object orientation.. No texts, though.

It is also starting to attract a little attention from non-programmers
who want to be programmers. It seems to me, in an evangelical mode,
that it is worthwhile addressing their needs, which are different than
the typical programmer who is discovering Python. The newsgroup may not
be appropriate for these people? Maybe python.org should start a
mailing list just for them? Python-eggs?

Over time, this mailing list, if archived, would develop a good
reference set for the clientele. The clientele would be partially
self-servicing.

Mandate:

Discussion of programming issues and techniques in Python for people for
whom Python is a first programming language.



--
Max M. Stalnaker stalnaker at acm.org
Astar Computer Consulting: Networking and Custom Accounting Software

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  • Fredrik Lundh at May 30, 1999 at 9:58 pm

    Max M. Stalnaker wrote:
    It is also starting to attract a little attention from non-programmers
    who want to be programmers. It seems to me, in an evangelical mode,
    that it is worthwhile addressing their needs, which are different than
    the typical programmer who is discovering Python. The newsgroup may not
    be appropriate for these people? Maybe python.org should start a
    mailing list just for them? Python-eggs?
    http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html#tutor
    http://www.python.org/pipermail/tutor/

    </F>
  • Hans Nowak at May 30, 1999 at 10:03 pm

    On 30 May 99, Max M. Stalnaker wrote:

    I have taught some programming classes. It seems to me python is a good
    choice for an introductory CS class since it has minimal key words, a
    clean syntax, and lots of CS structures available. It also has good
    object orientation.. No texts, though.

    It is also starting to attract a little attention from non-programmers
    who want to be programmers. It seems to me, in an evangelical mode,
    that it is worthwhile addressing their needs, which are different than
    the typical programmer who is discovering Python. The newsgroup may not
    be appropriate for these people? Maybe python.org should start a
    mailing list just for them? Python-eggs?

    Over time, this mailing list, if archived, would develop a good
    reference set for the clientele. The clientele would be partially
    self-servicing.

    Mandate:

    Discussion of programming issues and techniques in Python for people for
    whom Python is a first programming language.
    Hmm, we already have the Python Tutor list, which covers pretty much
    what you are describing here. There should be some information about
    this list on www.python.org. (Don't know the exact URL, though...)

    Veel liefs,

    --Hans Nowak (ivnowa at hvision.nl)
    Homepage: http://fly.to/zephyrfalcon
  • Tim Peters at May 30, 1999 at 10:18 pm
    [Max M. Stalnaker]
    I have taught some programming classes. It seems to me python is a good
    choice for an introductory CS class since it has minimal key words, a
    clean syntax, and lots of CS structures available. It also has good
    object orientation.. No texts, though.

    It is also starting to attract a little attention from non-programmers
    who want to be programmers. It seems to me, in an evangelical mode,
    that it is worthwhile addressing their needs, which are different than
    the typical programmer who is discovering Python. The newsgroup may not
    be appropriate for these people? Maybe python.org should start a
    mailing list just for them? Python-eggs?

    Over time, this mailing list, if archived, would develop a good
    reference set for the clientele. The clientele would be partially
    self-servicing.

    Mandate:

    Discussion of programming issues and techniques in Python for people for
    whom Python is a first programming language.
    Taking a trip in David Ascher's time machine (for a change), take a peek at:

    http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor/

    This list is for folks who want to ask questions regarding how to
    learn computer programming with the Python language.

    ...

    Folks interested in learning about programming with Python are
    encouraged to join, as are folks interested in helping others learn.
    While the list is called tutor, anyone, whether novice or expert, can
    answer questions.

    If individuals wish to start off-line conversations about a particular
    concept and become one-on-one tutor/tutee, that's fine. If either
    party wants to summarize what they learned for others to benefit,
    that's fine too.

    There's a killer problem in practice, though: a new programmer doesn't know
    what to ask! They're too baffled. Except for meta-discussions about
    programming education, the Tutor list has looked like a quieter version of
    c.l.py. With rare exceptions, I think a new programmer needs lots of
    one-on-one, face-to-face interaction with a teacher. Helps a lot too if
    they put the rest of their life on hold for a decade <0.9 wink>.

    A Tutor list building on a shared introductory text would likely work oodles
    better. But, as you say, there is no such text for Python.

    no-teacher-no-text-no-student-a-perfect-balance-ly y'rs - tim
  • Andrew Cooke at May 31, 1999 at 10:24 am
    On the Python web site, in the docs section, in Guido's essays, there is
    a grant proposal that you might find interesting reading. I read it
    yesterday and it sets the background for Idle (I presume - the name of
    the environment isn't mentioned) as an environment intended for
    teaching. It also has a long discussion of teaching languages and
    Python - I don't know to what extent it is grant babble and to what
    extent it reflects the driving forces behind Python, but it made some
    things clear to me. I don't have the exact URL, but I hope you'll be
    able to fid it easily from the description above.

    Andrew


    In article <37519172.55C86D95 at acm.org>,
    "Max M. Stalnaker" wrote:
    I have taught some programming classes. It seems to me python is a good
    choice for an introductory CS class since it has minimal key words, a
    clean syntax, and lots of CS structures available. It also has good
    object orientation.. No texts, though.

    Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
    Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
  • Ivan Van Laningham at Jun 1, 1999 at 3:17 pm
    Hi All--

    "Max M. Stalnaker" wrote:
    I have taught some programming classes. It seems to me python is a good
    choice for an introductory CS class since it has minimal key words, a
    clean syntax, and lots of CS structures available. It also has good
    object orientation.. No texts, though.

    It is also starting to attract a little attention from non-programmers
    who want to be programmers. It seems to me, in an evangelical mode,
    that it is worthwhile addressing their needs, which are different than
    the typical programmer who is discovering Python. The newsgroup may not
    be appropriate for these people? Maybe python.org should start a
    mailing list just for them? Python-eggs?

    Over time, this mailing list, if archived, would develop a good
    reference set for the clientele. The clientele would be partially
    self-servicing.

    Mandate:

    Discussion of programming issues and techniques in Python for people for
    whom Python is a first programming language.
    [N.B.: I've not finished reading all of my email this morning, so have
    undoubtedly missed some others' replies on this topic.]

    1) We already have the Python Tutor mailing list, which really is aimed
    at people just getting started with Python. Too many Python lists would
    dilute our energies, I think.

    2) Re ``no texts, though.'' That is a situation which I am attempting
    to remedy. I've just signed a contract with SAMS to write _Teach
    Yourself Python in 24 Hours_. I am deliberately aiming the book at
    people who do not know how to program, as I believe that Python is a
    very nearly ideal first programming language. The existing books are
    targetted at those who know at least something about programming, but
    mine will be for the true programming beginner.

    Naturally, I can't speak to SAMS' scheduling or production, so do not
    take what I say here as legally binding in any way (I disclaim
    everything!), but my feeling is that the book *might* be in the stores
    this year.

    <yet-more-totally-shameless-self-promotion>-ly y'rs,
    Ivan
    ----------------------------------------------
    Ivan Van Laningham
    Callware Technologies, Inc.
    ivanlan at callware.com
    http://www.pauahtun.org
    See also:
    http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
    Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70
    ----------------------------------------------

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postedMay 30, '99 at 7:28p
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