FAQ
Hi,



We want to include IronPython in one of our products, including the pure
Python part of the python standard library. It seems that the IronPython
installer packagers simply copied the pure python part of the standard
library (the directory tree of .py files which is installed by cPython
and IronPython installers in the lib/ subdirectory) from cPython.



Now, this directory comes with a LICENSE.txt which contains a
conglomerate of several licenses, and for us (and our Lawyers), it is
not entirely clear which part of the license applies to the pure Python
part of the standard library, and which applies to other files (like the
Berkeley Database license).



Our current understanding is that all the .py files which do not contain
any explicit mentioning of a license are covered by the Python licenses
(the first three licenses of the LICENSE.txt), and that e. G. the
Berkeley Database License only applies to the bsddb module which is
implemented in C, and thus is currently neither included with nor usable
from IronPython.



Is there anyone who can confirm this interpretation?



Maybe the LICENSE.txt should clarify somehow which of the licenses
applies to which part of the software.



Best regards

Markus Schaber

___________________________

We software Automation.

3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
Markus Schaber | Developer
Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
Fax +49-831-54031-50

Email: m.schaber at 3s-software.com <mailto:m.schaber at 3s-software.com> |
Web: http://www.3s-software.com <http://www.3s-software.com>
CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
<http://forum-en.3s-software.com>
Download CoDeSys sample projects:
http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects
<http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects>

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Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915



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  • Terry Reedy at Mar 3, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    On 3/3/2011 11:39 AM, Markus Schaber wrote:
    Hi,

    We want to include IronPython in one of our products, including the pure
    Python part of the python standard library. It seems that the IronPython
    installer packagers simply copied the pure python part of the standard
    library (the directory tree of .py files which is installed by cPython
    and IronPython installers in the lib/ subdirectory) from cPython.

    Now, this directory comes with a LICENSE.txt which contains a
    conglomerate of several licenses, and for us (and our Lawyers), it is
    not entirely clear which part of the license applies to the pure Python
    part of the standard library, and which applies to other files (like the
    Berkeley Database license).

    Our current understanding is that all the .py files which do not contain
    any explicit mentioning of a license are covered by the Python licenses
    (the first three licenses of the LICENSE.txt), and that e. G. the
    Berkeley Database License only applies to the bsddb module which is
    implemented in C, and thus is currently neither included with nor usable
    from IronPython.

    Is there anyone who can confirm this interpretation?
    Your interpretation seems reasonable, but only a paid lawyer (or
    ultimately a judge) can 'confirm' a legal interpretation. Sorry, we
    programmers generally hate the system.

    That said, I suspect you or your lawyers are worrying too much. None of
    the licensors are looking to play gotcha and I do not know that there
    have been any court cases involving Python.
    Maybe the LICENSE.txt should clarify somehow which of the licenses
    applies to which part of the software.
    I presume you are using some version of Python 2. In 3.2, the license
    file has the four general licenses (CWI, CNRI, BeOpen, PSF) in one
    section and 16 specific licenses related to various library modules
    (each identified) in another. There is no BSD license because bsddb in
    no longer included.

    You could take the disappearance of the BD licence with the
    disappearance of the bsddb module as confirmation of your hypothesis;-).

    --
    Terry Jan Reedy
  • Markus Schaber at Mar 4, 2011 at 8:54 am
    Hi, Terry,

    Von: Terry Reedy
    Your interpretation seems reasonable, but only a paid lawyer (or
    ultimately a judge) can 'confirm' a legal interpretation. Sorry, we
    programmers generally hate the system.

    I also am a programmer, and not a lawyer.

    And our paid lawyer cannot look into the code (where most files do not
    even actually have any copyright header) and magically guess which of
    the files might be covered by the Berkeley license.

    In the meantime, we found
    http://docs.python.org/release/2.6.6/license.html which has some better
    descriptions of which license applies to which part of the code, but
    that file is not equal to the LICENSE.txt which was distributed with the
    IronPython installer nor with the Python 2.6 binary distribution we
    installed.

    This is why he asked us to confirm with the developers of python that
    none of the non-copyright-annotated .py files in the standard library
    are actually covered by the Berkeley license.
    That said, I suspect you or your lawyers are worrying too much. None
    of the licensors are looking to play gotcha and I do not know that there
    have been any court cases involving Python.
    I presume you are using some version of Python 2.
    As the last stable version of IronPython implements Python 2.6, I
    conclude that the installer includes the standard library in a 2.6
    compatible version - however, it seems not to be the version distributed
    with cPython 2.6.6.
    In 3.2, the license file has the four general licenses (CWI, CNRI,
    BeOpen, PSF) in one section and 16 specific licenses related to various
    library modules (each identified) in another. There is no BSD license
    because bsddb in no longer included.

    That also applies to the published license for cPython 2.6.6 (link
    above) which lacks the Berkeley license, but not the license actually
    installed with the installer (which still contains the bsddb module). It
    identifies itself as:
    Python 2.6.6 (r266:84297, Aug 24 2010, 18:46:32) [MSC v.1500 32 bit
    (Intel)] on win32
    You could take the disappearance of the BD licence with the
    disappearance of the bsddb module as confirmation of your hypothesis;-).

    It is a strong indicator, but no guarantee that all the .py files
    without copyright headers are not covered by the Berkeley license.

    Thanks for your efforts!

    Best regards,

    Markus Schaber
    --
    We software Automation.

    3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
    Markus Schaber | Developer
    Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
    Fax +49-831-54031-50

    Email: m.schaber at 3s-software.com | Web: http://www.3s-software.com
    CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
    Download CoDeSys sample projects:
    http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects

    Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
    Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915
  • Markus Schaber at Mar 4, 2011 at 8:29 am
    Hi,

    First, sorry for sending an HTML message to the list, this was not
    intended.

    I now found out that http://docs.python.org/release/2.6.6/license.html
    does actually explain which part of the software is covered by which
    part of the license, but contains a different subset of licenses than
    the LICENSE.txt - two of the differences are the Berkeley part, and the
    windows binary build part.

    This is just adding somewhat more confusion...

    Thanks,
    Markus

    Original Message:
    Betreff: Pure python standard library and License

    Hi,

    We want to include IronPython in one of our products, including the pure
    Python part of the python standard library. It seems that the IronPython
    installer packagers simply copied the pure python part of the standard
    library (the directory tree of .py files which is installed by cPython
    and IronPython installers in the lib/ subdirectory) from cPython.

    Now, this directory comes with a LICENSE.txt which contains a
    conglomerate of several licenses, and for us (and our Lawyers), it is
    not entirely clear which part of the license applies to the pure Python
    part of the standard library, and which applies to other files (like the
    Berkeley Database license).

    Our current understanding is that all the .py files which do not contain
    any explicit mentioning of a license are covered by the Python licenses
    (the first three licenses of the LICENSE.txt), and that e. G. the
    Berkeley Database License only applies to the bsddb module which is
    implemented in C, and thus is currently neither included with nor usable
    from IronPython.

    Is there anyone who can confirm this interpretation?

    Maybe the LICENSE.txt should clarify somehow which of the licenses
    applies to which part of the software.

    Best regards

    Markus Schaber

    ___________________________
    We software Automation.

    3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH
    Markus Schaber | Developer
    Memminger Str. 151 | 87439 Kempten | Germany | Tel. +49-831-54031-0 |
    Fax +49-831-54031-50

    Email: m.schaber at 3s-software.com | Web: http://www.3s-software.com
    CoDeSys internet forum: http://forum.3s-software.com
    Download CoDeSys sample projects:
    http://www.3s-software.com/index.shtml?sample_projects

    Managing Directors: Dipl.Inf. Dieter Hess, Dipl.Inf. Manfred Werner |
    Trade register: Kempten HRB 6186 | Tax ID No.: DE 167014915

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postedMar 3, '11 at 4:39p
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