FAQ
Pythonistas,

My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
_Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
-someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

Yours, David...

--
_/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
_/_/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _/_/
_/_/ The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer... _/_/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them! _/_/

Search Discussions

  • Skip Montanaro at Aug 26, 2003 at 6:39 pm
    David> So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting
    David> on the list.

    This doesn't really count as an IDE in the usual sense, but Emacs/XEmacs
    with python-mode provides a fair amount of leverage to the programmer. It
    should probably be mentioned, if not tested. There's the pdb-track stuff
    which is part of python-mode, you can get help on the dotted expression
    under the cursor with a keystroke (C-c C-h), it colorizes, etc. You can use
    Emacs TAGS files to help find function/class definitions. Bicycle Repair
    Man is also available. It's a tool to help you refactor your code. I'm
    sure there's more I'm forgetting.

    All in one svelte editor... ;-)

    Skip
  • Dialtone at Aug 26, 2003 at 7:11 pm

    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    This one is easy :).

    My voting goes for:

    1) Emacs + python-mode + ipython as interactive shell inside emacs +
    speedbar as class browser (I use this... actually I use emacs for
    everything :))

    2) Eric3

    3) Eclipse + Trustudio

    4) Another one randomly

    PS: Under windows my favourite is PythonWin

    --
    Valentino Volonghi, Regia SpA, Milan

    Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User
  • Lawrence Oluyede at Aug 26, 2003 at 8:09 pm

    Dialtone <dialtone#NOSPAM#.despammed at aruba.it> writes:

    3) Eclipse + Trustudio
    Mmm i don't think so. IDLE is better :-)
    And i think that's not a great idea to use an IDE
    that needs a JVM to run only to have syntax highlighting
    and a not-so-smart indentation feature. For Trustudio you
    need a JVM (~20 Mb) , Eclipse (~60Mb), Trustudio plugins
    (~1.5 Mb)

    For IDLE you need nothing :)

    When Trustudio will become really useful, i think that'll
    be the time to look at it, since Eclipse itself is awesome
    for refactoring and Java coding

    --
    Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
    http://loluyede.blogspot.com
    rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com
  • Peter Milliken at Aug 26, 2003 at 8:38 pm
    "Dialtone" <dialtone#NOSPAM#.despammed at aruba.it> wrote in message
    news:87smno1bfh.fsf at vercingetorix.caesar.org...
    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    This one is easy :).

    My voting goes for:

    1) Emacs + python-mode + ipython as interactive shell inside emacs +
    speedbar as class browser (I use this... actually I use emacs for
    everything :))
    I use the same Emacs configuration with the addition of ELSE (with the
    python code templates for easy code input) and PyMacs (for extending Emacs
    using Python).
    2) Eric3

    3) Eclipse + Trustudio

    4) Another one randomly

    PS: Under windows my favourite is PythonWin

    --
    Valentino Volonghi, Regia SpA, Milan

    Linux User #310274, Debian Sid Proud User
  • Lawrence Oluyede at Aug 26, 2003 at 9:28 pm

    "Peter Milliken" <peterm at resmed.com.au> writes:

    I use the same Emacs configuration with the addition of ELSE (with the
    python code templates for easy code input) and PyMacs (for extending Emacs
    using Python).
    Cool! How does ELSE works? How could i setup Emacs to use it easily?

    PyMacs? Wow :) I'll check it out tomorrow

    --
    Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
    http://loluyede.blogspot.com
    rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com
  • Peter Milliken at Aug 27, 2003 at 8:42 pm
    Hi Lawrence,

    I am the author of ELSE (one of the reasons I like using it with Emacs :-)).
    You can find it at http://www.zipworld.com.au/~peterm (along with templates
    for other languages). There is an extensive users guide at the site (but
    since most people don't like documentation I would suggest that you browse
    the section on Installation, the section on "Default Keybindings" and have a
    look at the Tutorial section on using ELSE - these three sections that
    should get you up an going)

    If you need any assistance just drop me an email, I am more than happy to
    provide support etc.

    Peter

    "Lawrence Oluyede" <raims at dot.com> wrote in message
    news:87oeycrtvz.fsf at voodoo.fake...
    "Peter Milliken" <peterm at resmed.com.au> writes:
    I use the same Emacs configuration with the addition of ELSE (with the
    python code templates for easy code input) and PyMacs (for extending
    Emacs
    using Python).
    Cool! How does ELSE works? How could i setup Emacs to use it easily?

    PyMacs? Wow :) I'll check it out tomorrow

    --
    Lawrence "Rhymes" Oluyede
    http://loluyede.blogspot.com
    rhymes at NOSPAMmyself.com
  • Rune at Aug 26, 2003 at 7:15 pm

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:39:17 -0400, mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote:


    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.
    At least you will have to comment the Komodo from ActiveState.

    Rune
  • Gerhard Häring at Aug 26, 2003 at 7:28 pm

    David Mertz wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list.
    Wing IDE is my favourite one.

    -- Gerhard
  • Doug Fort at Aug 26, 2003 at 8:31 pm
    Up until six months ago, I was a solid EMACS guy. The a friend urged me to
    try Komodo. There's a good 21 day free trial, but I bought the personal
    version because I've gotten so much good stuff from ActiveState.

    Now I'm hooked. If you haven't checked it out recently, I recommend taking
    a look at Komodo. http://www.activestate.com

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:39:17 -0400, David Mertz wrote:

    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...

    --
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
    _/_/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _/_/
    _/_/ The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer... _/_/
    _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them! _/_/
  • Chris Reedy at Aug 26, 2003 at 8:38 pm

    David Mertz wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    Boy, this is a hard one. I currently use IDLE for all my work, mostly
    since it comes gratis with Python. For that reason I find myself wanting
    to argue for its inclusion so I have a baseline for comparison.

    Beyond that, I think the ones I'd be most interested in hearing about
    would be eric3 and Komodo, mainly because those are ones where I've gone
    to the trouble to look at their web pages.

    Chris




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  • Bruno Desthuilliers at Aug 27, 2003 at 12:12 am

    Skip Montanaro wrote:
    David> So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting
    David> on the list.

    This doesn't really count as an IDE in the usual sense, but Emacs/XEmacs
    with python-mode provides a fair amount of leverage to the programmer. It
    should probably be mentioned, if not tested.
    (snip a whole lot of functionalities)

    Oddly enough, I was just about to mention it...

    Bruno
  • Paul M at Aug 27, 2003 at 12:52 am

    David Mertz wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...
    I think it would be great to focus on truly cross platform IDEs. I
    regularly use Python on Win32, Linux, and Mac OS X, and I tend to prefer
    editors that work on at least those platforms (more would be great!). I
    imagine other people platform-hop a lot as well. And cross
    platform-ness is definitely keeping with the spirit of python.

    --Paul M.
  • Paul Paterson at Aug 27, 2003 at 6:26 am
    "David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
    news:mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org...
    <snip request for IDE suggestions>

    Depending on how you want to define IDE, Leo would be my choice. I use it to
    develop code, documentation, web pages as well as a arranging thoughts and
    ideas in a structured way. For me, it is the best IDE because it integrates
    with the way I think. The ability to represent the same information in
    mutiple ways is a very powerful feature that I haven't seen matched in other
    IDE's.

    As a different spin on IDE's, Leo is definitely worth a look.

    Paul
  • Luca Simonetti at Aug 27, 2003 at 6:56 am
    My favorites IDEs:

    1)Eric3 (despite a little work still to do) under Linux;
    2)Pythonwin under Windows;
    3)Komodo if I would buy one.
    4)Pycrust is also a useful tool

    Luca

    --
    +======================================================================+
    Luca SIMONETTI
    networks/systems manager
    INSTITUTE OF THERMAL-FLUID DYNAMICS
    ENEA "CASACCIA"
    Via Anguillarese 301
    00060 - R O M E
    ITALY

    Tel: +39 6 3048 4049
    Fax: +39 6 3048 3026
    E-Mail: luca.simonetti at casaccia.enea.it
    +======================================================================+
  • Jacek Generowicz at Aug 27, 2003 at 9:09 am

    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) writes:

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on
    the list.
    I'll have to sling in another vote for (X)Emacs.

    Even if you were to use Emacs exclusively for Python development, it
    already provides an excellent environment.

    However, as you approach the limit where Emacs _is_ your opearting
    system, the level of integration it provides is unsurpassable :-)
  • Rzed at Aug 27, 2003 at 12:51 pm

    David Mertz wrote:
    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such
    roundup lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on
    the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might
    call an IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and
    read various announcements. But really I just use text editors and
    command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four
    different tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to
    only do three. Past that, I cannot do more than list contact
    information and platform in the available words. I'm sure there
    are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a
    cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on
    the list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should
    this prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order
    review copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    I hope you'll take a look at boa constructor. It's an interesting
    project that is rapidly becoming better than just good.

    --
    rzed
  • Gerhard Häring at Aug 27, 2003 at 12:55 pm

    Mike Thompson wrote:
    "David Mertz" wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list.
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Boa. I tryed Wing & Komodo, before finding
    Boa.
    Boa is far from finished. Depending on your wxPython version and how you
    use the IDE, it could work surprisingly well or annoy you to no end in
    my experience.

    I'd recommend to not review alpha software like Boa.

    -- Gerhard
  • Alan James Salmoni at Aug 27, 2003 at 2:47 pm
    Hi David,

    Although a lot of posters have recommended Emacs (and maybe Vim too?),
    I would avoid reviewing it (them) simply because it's been done so
    many times already.

    Personally, I would include:

    1) SciTE - cross-platform, multi-language etc. It alters the font for
    different elements of code (eg, comments are in one font, code in
    another which, along with different colours, makes different sections
    easy to locate - for me at least!).
    2) Leo - I have tried to use this, but am not really up to speed with
    it. However, it seems interesting, and like a previous poster said, it
    could be used for many tasks. It seems quite powerful once it is
    learned.

    All the best!

    Alan James Salmoni
    SalStat Statistics
    http://salstat.sunsite.dk

    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...
  • Gerhard Häring at Aug 27, 2003 at 3:38 pm

    Alan James Salmoni wrote:
    Personally, I would include:

    1) SciTE [...]
    2) Leo [...]
    Neither one is an IDE (they lack a debugger). They're only editors.

    -- Gerhard
  • Alan James Salmoni at Aug 28, 2003 at 11:15 am
    Gerhard,

    Do'h! Sincerest apologies. I'll report to the torture chamber for
    immediate privation. I won't be allowed to use Python for a whole
    week... :)

    Alan.

    Gerhard H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> wrote in message news:<mailman.1061998999.25303.python-list at python.org>...
    Alan James Salmoni wrote:
    Personally, I would include:

    1) SciTE [...]
    2) Leo [...]
    Neither one is an IDE (they lack a debugger). They're only editors.

    -- Gerhard
  • Aahz at Aug 27, 2003 at 2:50 pm
    In article <mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>,
    David Mertz wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    I use vi, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I think you should
    include IDLE because there have been so many improvements with Python 2.3
    (running code in a separate process, if nothing else), and it is the
    standard IDE that comes with Python. That would make three + IDLE for
    your article, and you can get started on IDLE now.
    --
    Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    This is Python. We don't care much about theory, except where it intersects
    with useful practice. --Aahz
  • Waldemar Osuch at Aug 27, 2003 at 3:59 pm
    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    One should not forget about Boa Constructor
    (http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/). It is very feature rich.
    - it is not only editor/debugger but also GUI builder.
    - integrates with exisiting Python tools like PyChecker, Bicycle
    Repair Man, cyclops etc.
    - automatically generated documentation and UML view.
    - Zope debugger.
    It is also crossplatform

    Waldemar Osuch
  • R.Marquez at Aug 27, 2003 at 4:48 pm

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    I work on Windows mostly, and Pythonwin has been great for a few
    years, although it doesn't have any GUI building facilities. Lately,
    due to a bug in the last release (which I have already submitted), I
    have taken the opportunity to give others a try. I am not currently
    interested in paying for an IDE.

    I tried BOA a little while ago. My first impression was "wow, someone
    has done a lot of work here". However, I didn't like the fact that I
    had to mold my code to the way the application wants it. For example,
    I have to always have a "main" function. Maybe that is a good
    practice, but being forced to it didn't give me a good feeling. The
    code it generated for the GUI was a bit verbose and it... I don't
    know. It just didn't seem to simplify things for me too much. I
    probably should go back and give it another try one of these days.

    Idle is nice enough, although like Pythonwin, it doesn't have any GUI
    building facilities. Surprisingly for me, I couldn't find some basic
    features for simple code editing that I really like. For example, I
    couldn't find a way to have white space visible. It also doesn't seem
    to have an indentation guide feature, which I find very useful in
    Pythonwin (this feature seems to me to be a must for a Python code
    editor since indentation is so crucial in it). Also, I could not see
    how to display line numbers (although it does have a "Go to line"
    feature).

    I was surprised to find all of these features as well as most other
    features that I expected for basic code editing on the PythonCard
    prototype Code Editor. And, PythonCard is an actual Application
    builder, with outstanding GUI building facilities and all. I think
    that PythonCard has the potential to be the best IDE/App Builder for
    Python. It uses wxPython as its foundation, which I think is most GUI
    developers favorite *free* toolkit. Unfortunately, a lot of the
    wxPython widgets have yet to be integrated. However, it is already
    usable for simple GUI applications. So, if you haven't given a try I
    would encourage you to do so. You may just see what I mean.

    I still like Pythonwin as my favorite Code Editor in Windows. But,
    until my little bug is fixed I think I am sticking with PythonCard's
    Code Editor.

    -Ruben
  • Smarter_than_you at Aug 28, 2003 at 5:32 am
    Another shout-out for Pythoncard. It's at an early stage but I
    _really_ like the design philosophy. The code editor is nice (Boa
    might have a slight advantage here, but it's definitely usable). The
    GUI constructor is the best I've seen, and I've been shopping for a
    useful builder for a while.

    Best of all, unlike Boa, the code it generates is clean and well laid
    out, with a .rsrc.py file that is just a little list of dicts with
    parameters for all your widgets.

    YMMV


    ny_r_marquez at yahoo.com (R.Marquez) wrote in message news:<8a27e309.0308270848.6ca4f8c2 at posting.google.com>...
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    I work on Windows mostly, and Pythonwin has been great for a few
    years, although it doesn't have any GUI building facilities. Lately,
    due to a bug in the last release (which I have already submitted), I
    have taken the opportunity to give others a try. I am not currently
    interested in paying for an IDE.

    I tried BOA a little while ago. My first impression was "wow, someone
    has done a lot of work here". However, I didn't like the fact that I
    had to mold my code to the way the application wants it. For example,
    I have to always have a "main" function. Maybe that is a good
    practice, but being forced to it didn't give me a good feeling. The
    code it generated for the GUI was a bit verbose and it... I don't
    know. It just didn't seem to simplify things for me too much. I
    probably should go back and give it another try one of these days.

    Idle is nice enough, although like Pythonwin, it doesn't have any GUI
    building facilities. Surprisingly for me, I couldn't find some basic
    features for simple code editing that I really like. For example, I
    couldn't find a way to have white space visible. It also doesn't seem
    to have an indentation guide feature, which I find very useful in
    Pythonwin (this feature seems to me to be a must for a Python code
    editor since indentation is so crucial in it). Also, I could not see
    how to display line numbers (although it does have a "Go to line"
    feature).

    I was surprised to find all of these features as well as most other
    features that I expected for basic code editing on the PythonCard
    prototype Code Editor. And, PythonCard is an actual Application
    builder, with outstanding GUI building facilities and all. I think
    that PythonCard has the potential to be the best IDE/App Builder for
    Python. It uses wxPython as its foundation, which I think is most GUI
    developers favorite *free* toolkit. Unfortunately, a lot of the
    wxPython widgets have yet to be integrated. However, it is already
    usable for simple GUI applications. So, if you haven't given a try I
    would encourage you to do so. You may just see what I mean.

    I still like Pythonwin as my favorite Code Editor in Windows. But,
    until my little bug is fixed I think I am sticking with PythonCard's
    Code Editor.

    -Ruben
  • Ulrich Petri at Aug 27, 2003 at 5:26 pm
    "David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org...
    Pythonistas,

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    You should definitely consider Boa-Constructor (be sure to use at least v.
    0.23, better yet the recent cvs version).
    IMHO its the most "complete" python IDE at the moment.

    Ciao Ulrich
  • Lothar Scholz at Aug 27, 2003 at 10:57 pm
    "Ulrich Petri" <ulope at gmx.de> wrote in message news:<biipks$9mguu$1 at ID-67890.news.uni-berlin.de>...
    "David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org...
    Pythonistas,

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).
    You should definitely consider Boa-Constructor (be sure to use at least v.
    0.23, better yet the recent cvs version).
    IMHO its the most "complete" python IDE at the moment.
    But not easy to use and with a lot of bugs. Maybe some less features
    and more stability would be nice.

    And it is not complete if you want to program Web Applications.
  • Javier Ruere at Aug 28, 2003 at 5:24 am

    Lothar Scholz wrote:

    You should definitely consider Boa-Constructor (be sure to use at least v.
    0.23, better yet the recent cvs version).
    IMHO its the most "complete" python IDE at the moment.
    But not easy to use and with a lot of bugs. Maybe some less features
    and more stability would be nice.
    After a couple of weeks of learning Python I had already discarded TK
    and wanted a GUI builder for wxPython. After trying PythonCard I found
    Boa and loved it. Being Visual Basic the only IDE I had previously used,
    Boa was very intuitive to me and had little trouble, if any, using it.
    On the stability front, I'm sure I had at least one problem in this
    year+ I have been using it but I can't quiet recall what is was...
    The author labels the IDE as alpha software but he must have the
    highest standars, for the CVS version is remarkably stable and ready to
    use IMHO.
    And it is not complete if you want to program Web Applications.
    I have no experience in such things but it does have some Zope stuff
    (which I know nothing about).

    Later,
    Javier
  • Paul Reznicek at Sep 9, 2003 at 2:09 pm
    llothar at web.de (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<6ee58e07.0308271457.7349086f at posting.google.com>...
    .....
    And it is not complete if you want to program Web Applications.
    What is the better one for program Web Applications?

    Paul
  • Eltronic at Aug 27, 2003 at 7:08 pm

    On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:38:39 +0200 =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gerhard_Häring?<gh at ghaering.de> writes:
    Alan James Salmoni wrote:
    Personally, I would include:

    1) SciTE [...]
    2) Leo [...]
    Neither one is an IDE (they lack a debugger). They're only editors.
    good point but I hope this wont be a choice limiting factor.

    calling Leo only an editor
    is like calling python only a script language.
    although, true Leo doesn't come out of the box with debugging.
    personally I added pdb to automatically be entered on any error
    per a cookbook entry to my site.py .
    there could be a debugger plugin (yes Leo has plugins)
    not light weight limited plugins, full skys the limit plugins.
    you can execute any script by selecting it,
    you want debugging, import pdb or whatever your favorite.
    Leo doesn't get in your way in this regard.

    not having tried any of the higher powered IDE for python,
    maybe I would like debugging support. I do require it in C.
    since python does so much for you already I don't miss it much.
    I do spend a little time recharging the batteries though.

    a visual debugger/program emulator would be on anyones wish list.
    running code from the IDE in general isn't really cost effective.

    just for the import file command, which seperates code from many
    languages into an outline which you can then use to refactor,
    and the c to python script included makes it worth using.


    e
    please forward all spam to "not my real email"<help at ftc.gov>

    ________________________________________________________________
    The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
    Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
    Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
  • Gerrit van Dyk at Aug 28, 2003 at 6:04 am
    Just my 2 cents worth:

    Xemacs/Emacs with python-mode bindings + pychecker and some screen editor
    for gui apps (wxDesigner/Boa for wxPython,BlackAdder/Qt Designer for Qt
    etc)

    Regards
    Gerrit
  • Kevin Altis at Aug 28, 2003 at 6:15 am
    "David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> wrote in message
    news:mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org...
    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...
    So, I guess the key question is what features are required to be considered
    an IDE? If you're simply talking about an editor with an integrated debugger
    then there is a lot to choose from and certainly IDLE (formerly IDLEfork
    should be included) just for completeness. Based on the responses to c.l.py
    a lot of people seem to think vim and Emacs qualify as IDEs, but those would
    probably be best covered in their own articles. Just out of curiosity, I
    checked the "definition" of an IDE.


    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=interactive%20development%20environ
    ment

    One thing I've found quite interesting about Python is that when I started
    using it I was disappointed in the debugger support, since I was used to
    more elaborate systems from my compiled language days. There is also the pro
    blem that many Python editors/IDEs including the old IDLE couldn't debug GUI
    code if the IDE used a different toolkit than your app (tkinter, win32,
    wxPython, Qt, etc.) Then I realized that at least for the kind of GUI work I
    do the debugger fell into the YAGNI category and I end up doing most of my
    exploration in the shell at runtime or using print or log statements for
    other bits. It will be interesting to see whether the ability to set
    breakpoints and do other debugger sorts of things becomes more important to
    me in the future.

    Some people seem to think an IDE means integrated layout capabilities. That
    would narrow the field considerably. Boa should be considered in your
    selections regardless of whether its wxPython GUI capabilities are needed.

    PythonCard, at least in its current form doesn't really qualify as an IDE
    since the codeEditor is just a source editor, it doesn't have a debugger and
    it is not integrated with the resourceEditor which handles layouts. A future
    version will have a more integrated environment.

    ka
  • Lothar Scholz at Aug 28, 2003 at 3:02 pm
    "Mike Thompson" <n/a> wrote in message news:<3f4d3e12$0$4190$afc38c87 at news.optusnet.com.au>...
    That's not my experience. I've found Boa both stable, functional and well
    priced.
    One fatal bug is that it doesn't kill applications that you started in
    the debugger or simply run as a script - at least under Win2000/XP. So
    after 30 minutes you end up with a maschine full of processes and with
    the kill only one task at a time MS-Taskmanager it is faster to reboot
    the maschine.

    And the complete IDE is not very easy to use, the debugger seems also
    not very stable.
  • Larry at Aug 28, 2003 at 5:57 pm

    David Mertz wrote:

    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...

    There is a brand new version of BlackAdder available from theKompany.com
    that is quite impressive.

    http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/

    Screenshots here....
    http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder/screenshots.php3
  • SM at Sep 6, 2003 at 6:08 am
    Maybe you check out this newcomer :
    http://projects.blender.org/projects/spe/
    http://www.pycs.net/users/0000167/
    It's open-source, extensible with Boa, usable as a module and has all
    the usual features(auto-indentation, syntax highlighting, source
    index, hierarchal class browser, automatic todo-lists, recent file and
    directory browser, interactive shell, run scripts before they are
    saved, ...). Moreover it has Blender support!


    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...
  • Hardy Jonck at Sep 9, 2003 at 5:11 am
    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
    Pythonistas,


    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...
    I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
    support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
    comes with Jedit is amazing. Would be nice to have more development in
    it to make it an even better Python editor that it is now. It has
    advanced features, very good code folding, excellent searching, class
    browser, integration with Ctags that works great with Python, regular
    expression cross project search and replace, sftp, ftp, CVS
    integration (GREAT) and integrated DIFF, XML and XPATH, and tons of
    other very handy plugins to do 100% hands off mouseless efficient
    editing.

    Have a look at www.jedit.org and install version 4.1 stable. Install
    Jython from the plugins directory and make shure to set the prefrences
    so that it pre-loads Jython and classes. Then install Sidekick and
    tags. Set Folding mode to Sodekick and that almost completes the
    setup. Now install gruntspud from the plugins directory and you have
    CVS with full integration into the editor.

    Only thing missing is full code completion like PythonWIn offers...

    Sincerely,
    Hardy Jonck
  • Tom Lee at Sep 9, 2003 at 3:04 pm
    I second that.

    JEdit is fantastic.

    No matter what language I use it for, it never goes against the grain of
    my programming style.

    However, it's particularly good for both Python, XML/HTML/CSS/etc. and
    PHP. Java has Eclipse and NetBeans, C/C++ has MSVC/KDevelop/Anjuta
    (although in Linux I use JEdit for C/C++ too!), but nothing compares to
    JEdit for the previous languages.

    Only complaint is the startup time - can be a painful wait at times, but
    I love it all the same.

    Folding, too, is brilliant. You have to try it to really appreciate it.
    I recommend checking out the folding in 4.2pre4 - different colours for
    different levels of nested folding.

    - TL

    Hardy Jonck wrote:
    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
    Pythonistas,


    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...

    I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
    support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
    comes with Jedit is amazing. Would be nice to have more development in
    it to make it an even better Python editor that it is now. It has
    advanced features, very good code folding, excellent searching, class
    browser, integration with Ctags that works great with Python, regular
    expression cross project search and replace, sftp, ftp, CVS
    integration (GREAT) and integrated DIFF, XML and XPATH, and tons of
    other very handy plugins to do 100% hands off mouseless efficient
    editing.

    Have a look at www.jedit.org and install version 4.1 stable. Install
    Jython from the plugins directory and make shure to set the prefrences
    so that it pre-loads Jython and classes. Then install Sidekick and
    tags. Set Folding mode to Sodekick and that almost completes the
    setup. Now install gruntspud from the plugins directory and you have
    CVS with full integration into the editor.

    Only thing missing is full code completion like PythonWIn offers...

    Sincerely,
    Hardy Jonck
  • Achrist at Sep 9, 2003 at 4:52 pm

    Tom Lee wrote:
    JEdit is fantastic.
    I found it very good, too. I was using it for a large project
    in Python about 6 mos back, and despite the sluggish response on
    my 200 MHz machine, I had it open on my desktop continuously for
    a couple of weeks, with dozens of files open. But then it gave me
    a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
    JVM crash. That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
    used it since.

    Anyone else have trouble like that with jEdit?


    Al
  • John J. Lee at Sep 10, 2003 at 1:13 pm

    achrist at easystreet.com writes:
    Tom Lee wrote:
    JEdit is fantastic.
    [...]
    a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
    JVM crash. That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
    used it since.
    What platform was that (JVM, OS)?


    John
  • Achrist at Sep 10, 2003 at 2:37 pm

    "John J. Lee" wrote:
    achrist at easystreet.com writes:
    Tom Lee wrote:
    JEdit is fantastic.
    [...]
    a bad crash -- I don't recall exactly what -- maybe a BSOD or a
    JVM crash. That's not the kind of thing I enjoy, so I haven't
    used it since.
    What platform was that (JVM, OS)?
    It was WinNT SP6 with java sdk 1.4101. I figured that I had given
    jEdit and the JVM a fairly demanding test -- I don't have much idea
    how you could write an app in any language that could manage resources
    like memory without leaking or fragmenting at least a little once in a
    while, and after a run of a few weeks, something demised.

    It didn't really bother me much, but if it happened again, that would
    have bothered me. As this thread has shown, there are plenty of
    other options for python coders, so I moved on to try another. I see
    that there is a bug-fix pre-release of jEdit now out. Maybe I'll
    give that a try.


    Al
  • Ruben Baumann at Sep 10, 2003 at 2:46 pm
    <achrist at easystreet.com> wrote in message
    news:3F5F373B.886D62FD at easystreet.com...
    It was WinNT SP6 with java sdk 1.4101. I figured that I had given
    jEdit and the JVM a fairly demanding test -- I don't have much idea
    how you could write an app in any language that could manage resources
    like memory without leaking or fragmenting at least a little once in a
    while, and after a run of a few weeks, something demised.

    It didn't really bother me much, but if it happened again, that would
    have bothered me. As this thread has shown, there are plenty of
    other options for python coders, so I moved on to try another. I see
    that there is a bug-fix pre-release of jEdit now out. Maybe I'll
    give that a try.


    Al
    You should also update your JVM. As I understand it, Java 1.4101 had some
    problems, and has been superceded by 1.4.2.

    JFYI, I've used jEdit for a couple years now for various small projects, as
    well as using it just to edit text. With the plug-ins, you can build an
    editor that works the way you want it to. The Jython plug-in works great!

    The last release of Java, 1.4 was also a speed enhancement release, so jEdit
    is a little peppier. :-)

    HTH
    Ruben
  • David Mertz at Sep 9, 2003 at 5:47 pm

    Tom Lee <tl_nntp at webcrumb.com> wrote previously:
    JEdit is fantastic. No matter what language I use it for, it never
    goes against the grain of my programming style.
    I wrote off-list to the OP:

    As am I. jEdit is my editor on my PowerBook. Everything from my
    articles and book, to Python, to XML, to C, to other languages. It's
    not quite as fast as "native" code (at least on OSX1.2/Java1.4), but
    it does have nicely configurable keystrokes. (I sometimes get
    "freezeups" for a second or two, which interupt my workflow).

    I confess that I've never really used the Jython feature, even though
    I have it installed. I still write code in jEdit, but run it in
    Terminal.

    Maybe I will include it in my roundup; it's hard to say what counts as
    an IDE, but jEdit is helpful in many ways.

    FWIW, even though I think this thread is generally useful for c.l.py
    readers, for my article specifically, I am unlikely to evaluate any
    Windows products. I have one older Win98r2 laptop, but I haven't
    touched it since tax time, and don't really like to touch Windows.

    My main desktop is OS/2; I realize I won't find much for that, except
    the Java tools. But my main laptop is a Mac, which is probably where
    I'll test. However, I may decide to use my Linux or FreeBSD machines to
    test specific tools, if needed. Still, I have been very pleased to find
    that 95% of the Free Software tools that interest me compile fine on OSX
    (while I avoid 90% of the configuration/dependency nightmares I've grown
    to fear in Linux).

    Yours, David...

    --
    mertz@ | The specter of free information is haunting the `Net! All the
    gnosis | powers of IP- and crypto-tyranny have entered into an unholy
    .cx | alliance...ideas have nothing to lose but their chains. Unite
    against "intellectual property" and anti-privacy regimes!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  • Steven D. Arnold at Sep 13, 2003 at 2:02 am

    On 9/9/03 1:11 AM, "Hardy Jonck" wrote:

    I recently had a look at Jedit and must say I am impressed. Python
    support via Jython 2.1 - but the extensibility and philosophy that
    comes with Jedit is amazing.
    I agree -- it has an awesome multi-file search feature that makes it fairly
    competitive with even a five-star editor like Source Insight (which is
    available only on Win32). The spirit of this editor seems to be much like
    emacs, and it's GPLed. Right now I believe it is the best programmer's text
    editor on Mac OS X, and I have done a detailed search for a good Mac OS X
    text editor.

    steve
  • Etienne Labuschagne at Sep 9, 2003 at 7:35 am
    1st, 2nd and 3rd Boa Constructor

    I find this quite stable on Windows (latest version 0.2.3) and I find
    the following it's best features:

    o THE BEST Zope support for a free IDE - create Zope objects such as
    Files, DTML Documents, Page Templates, etc. Debug Zope Python
    Scripts, external methods, Zope itself, and to a limited extent, DTML
    documents and Page Templates!
    o Out of process debugger that can attach to remote Python processes
    and debug Zope (THE best feature!), in multiple threads! Debugger can
    be a bit tempremental, but it's very powerful (I have debugged
    client's systems over the internet!)
    o Multiple transports - edit files on the file system, through FTP,
    Webdav, etc.
    o Nice editor, with tabbed view of all open files, full Regular
    expression search and replace functionality (over multiple files),
    reindetation function, code and parameter completion, code highliting
    and hyperlink-like "jump to declaration". Lots of other things not
    mentioned here.
    o wxPython GUI development (code generation, no XML)

    There are some niggles, but personally I have found it quite stable
    and VERY feature rich and probably the most feature rich environment
    for Python and Zope. (I'm beginning to sound like a Zealot)

    4th. PythonWin
    A nice "side kick" to Boa for the very few things it does better than
    Boa, has a nifty "Post mortem" debugger that breaks execution on an
    exception (and rolls back to just before the exception).
  • Don Rozenberg at Sep 9, 2003 at 5:38 pm
    mertz at gnosis.cx (David Mertz) wrote in message news:<mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org>...
    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...
    For a long time, I have been using emacs as my Python IDE and have
    found that python-mode can be improved - see
    http://page.sourceforge.net/py-mode-ext.html
    for my version. Also a straight-forward way of using pdb under emacs,
    can be found at http://page.sourceforge.net/tricks.html. These two
    tweeks make a great difference for me.

    Am happy to learn about ELSE from these postings, I will give it a try
    immediately.
  • F. GEIGER at Sep 9, 2003 at 6:25 pm
    Hi David,

    1) WingIDE
    2) Komodo
    3) IDLE
    And now for something completely different:
    4) The really world's best outliner (man, I tried quite a few) and Literate
    Programming Tool: Leo


    Best regards
    Franz GEIGER

    P.S.: I've listed Leo as (4) because I do not use it for programming, but
    others do, with great success by the way. I use it to organize my projects,
    contacts, as calender, as - well, for each and everything. And thru its
    Clone-feature everything is always just a click away from where I am in my
    outlines. And it's scriptable and and and. In short: I organize myself with
    Leo. I do this since April 2003, still with great pleasure. Using Leo is
    like programming Python: Each day's a pleasure like the first day. So, would
    you have asked for PIMs to be suggested I would have written
    1) Leo
    2) Leo
    3) Leo
    4) Leo
    Sory, I'm getting OT now...


    "David Mertz" <mertz at gnosis.cx> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:mailman.1061920192.21278.python-list at python.org...
    Pythonistas,

    My loyal fans :-) will remember that I did a Python IDE roundup for
    _Charming Python_ a couple years back. Now I have another such roundup
    lined up... not the very next article, but it's there on the list.

    In the intervening years, I've hardly touched anything one might call an
    IDE. I've looked at screenshots from time to time, and read various
    announcements. But really I just use text editors and command lines.

    Here's the thing: I probably have room to look at about four different
    tools in one article. In fact, it wouldn't be absurd to only do three.
    Past that, I cannot do more than list contact information and platform
    in the available words. I'm sure there are more than four IDEs that
    -someone- loves to work with out there... but I need to have a cutoff.

    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list. I have a while to ponder the opinions advanced, should this
    prompt some discussion (it may take a little while to order review
    copies of commercial tools and/or get things installed).

    Yours, David...

    --
    _/_/_/ THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY: Postmodern Enterprises _/_/_/
    _/_/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[mertz at gnosis.cx]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _/_/
    _/_/ The opinions expressed here must be those of my employer... _/_/
    _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Surely you don't think that *I* believe them! _/_/
  • Corey Coughlin at Sep 11, 2003 at 12:06 am
    As for me, I'm currently using Emacs, but I'd love to find a nice IDE.
    I can't even use IDLE at work, sadly, some arcane problem with
    upgrading Tcl/Tk on Solaris 5.3 machines, very annyoing. But
    generally, it seems like it would be a little pointless to review
    IDLE. Since it's included, everyone can try it at their leisure. The
    same pretty much applies for X/Emacs, it's been around so long now
    that by this time anyone who is going to try it is probably already
    using it. Sure, have a paragraph about standard editing solutions and
    mention them, but don't focus on them. I'd prefer to see some reviews
    of the other, less standard editors out there, especially ones with
    GUI editors, that sounds kind of cool. Emphasis on cross-platform
    solutions would also be good, as I said I'm using Solaris here at
    work, but Windows and Linux at home. I'd love to find a great editor
    for all three environments. I look forward to seeing the article!
  • Anand Pillai at Sep 11, 2003 at 10:05 am

    David Mertz wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one getting on the
    list.
    GNU Emacs + python-mode is my favorite.
    Apart from that I use:

    1. XEmacs + python-mode, (not as good as Emacs + python-mode)
    2. IDLE

    -Anand
  • Jussi Jumppanen at Sep 10, 2003 at 10:49 pm

    Anand Pillai wrote:
    David Mertz wrote:
    So c.l.py readers... make the case for your favorite one
    getting on the list.
    GNU Emacs + python-mode is my favorite.
    Apart from that I use:

    1. XEmacs + python-mode, (not as good as Emacs + python-mode)
    2. IDLE
    I you develop for python on the Windows platform I suggest
    taking a look at Zeus.

    http://www.zeusedit.com/lookmain.html

    Zeus has a built in python scripting engine, while the built
    in class browser, auto complete and sytnax highlighting all
    support pyhton.

    Jussi Jumppanen
    Author of: Zeus for Windows (All new version 3.90 out now)
    "The C/C++, Cobol, Java, HTML, Python, PHP, Perl programmer's editor"
    Home Page: http://www.zeusedit.com
  • Robin Siebler at Sep 12, 2003 at 5:04 pm
    I know you can't tell us when this article will appear, but could you
    tell us where?

    I am currently using PythonWin and would be curious to see what the
    alternatives look like, especially Komodo, because it is the only
    *reasonably* priced (for a personal license) commercial offering out
    there.

    I was reading through the thread and I tried to try a couple of the
    items mentioned:

    1. SPE - Neither of the download links at blender.projects.org
    worked. I tried sending an e-mail to the author, but I haven't gotten
    a response.

    2. eric3 - I looked at it, but it has too many prerequistes! Just
    trying to find the right (free) version of QT was a pain. I never was
    able to get everything configured properly. If the software requires
    specific software to work, I think the least the guy could do would be
    to give the right links to the required software and maybe a few tips
    for getting everything to work properly.

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