FAQ
The text at
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid#52&group_id=1#cvs

seems to indicate that there may be up to a 24 hour delay in :pserver:
access to cvs repositories. Whilst in no way decrying sf.net's
contribution won't this have a bad effect on python (& many other
projects) distribution?

There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it has
become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a good idea.
--
Robin Becker

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  • Skip Montanaro at Jun 20, 2003 at 1:24 pm
    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
    Robin> good idea.

    Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?

    Skip
  • Robin Becker at Jun 20, 2003 at 1:52 pm
    In message <16115.2851.995073.486228 at montanaro.dyndns.org>, Skip
    Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
    Robin> good idea.

    Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?

    Skip
    yes I thought of that, but the idea is too frightening :(
    --
    Robin Becker
  • Gerhard Häring at Jun 20, 2003 at 1:52 pm

    Robin Becker wrote:
    In message <16115.2851.995073.486228 at montanaro.dyndns.org>, Skip
    Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
    Robin> good idea.

    Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?
    yes I thought of that, but the idea is too frightening :(
    Why's that frightening? The projects that are worth it could then find
    another home, and all the useless ones wouldn't be visible any more :-P

    Seriously, the SF code was (still is?) Open-Source and there are several
    sites that have set up SF clones. At least GNU and PostgreSQL have one.
    Here's the Pg one, for example: http://gborg.postgresql.org/

    -- Gerhard
  • Robin Becker at Jun 20, 2003 at 3:58 pm
    In article <mailman.1056117876.8794.python-list at python.org>, Gerhard
    H?ring <gh at ghaering.de> writes
    Robin Becker wrote:
    In message <16115.2851.995073.486228 at montanaro.dyndns.org>, Skip
    Montanaro <skip at pobox.com> writes
    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
    Robin> good idea.

    Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?
    yes I thought of that, but the idea is too frightening :(
    Why's that frightening? The projects that are worth it could then find
    another home, and all the useless ones wouldn't be visible any more :-P

    Seriously, the SF code was (still is?) Open-Source and there are several
    sites that have set up SF clones. At least GNU and PostgreSQL have one.
    Here's the Pg one, for example: http://gborg.postgresql.org/

    -- Gerhard
    Good sysadmins probably do the backup thing properly and so on and could
    rehost fairly easily, but think of all the links and documentation that
    might have to be changed if SF were compromised/made unreliable in some
    way.
    --
    Robin Becker
  • Behrang Dadsetan at Jun 20, 2003 at 2:57 pm
    About sourceforge and their CVS access..

    I have been having serious problems doing my first "python" checkout.
    I do not know much about CVS but would it not be possible to make a
    "nightly CVS" build in parallel to the "nightly binary" builds, so that
    first time "downloaders" can download one tar ball and then just update
    with CVS instead of downloading every file for hours on sourceforge? I
    just somehow feel CVS is ill fitted mass downloads of thousands of files...

    Or do I have someway to add the CVS information to the tar balled source
    code available with each release?

    I am not sure whether I will be couragous enough to try it very often
    anymore (the checkout crashed already three times after hours of
    downloading) while I actually already had two-three python bugs I would
    have liked to look into and maybe solve...

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions,
    Ben Dadsetan.

    Robin Becker wrote:
    The text at
    http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid#52&group_id=1#cvs

    seems to indicate that there may be up to a 24 hour delay in :pserver:
    access to cvs repositories. Whilst in no way decrying sf.net's
    contribution won't this have a bad effect on python (& many other
    projects) distribution?

    There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it has
    become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a good idea.
  • Martin v. Löwis at Jun 20, 2003 at 6:23 pm

    Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    The text at
    http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid#52&group_id=1#cvs

    seems to indicate that there may be up to a 24 hour delay in :pserver:
    access to cvs repositories. Whilst in no way decrying sf.net's
    contribution won't this have a bad effect on python (& many other
    projects) distribution?
    There might be a way to migrate the CVS off SF. This is work in
    progress, and I doubt it will happen before Python 2.3 is released (we
    can't migrate repositories in the middle of a beta release
    cycle). OTOH, SF has promised that they will add new hardware to CVS
    in August, so the problem will go away one way or the other. At the
    moment, I doubt there is much we can do.

    So no, it won't have a bad effect in the long term.

    Regards,
    Martin
  • Robin Becker at Jun 20, 2003 at 10:45 pm
    In article <m3llvwd2wp.fsf at mira.informatik.hu-berlin.de>, Martin v.
    L?wis <martin at v.loewis.de> writes
    Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes: ....
    There might be a way to migrate the CVS off SF. This is work in
    progress, and I doubt it will happen before Python 2.3 is released (we
    can't migrate repositories in the middle of a beta release
    cycle). OTOH, SF has promised that they will add new hardware to CVS
    in August, so the problem will go away one way or the other. At the
    moment, I doubt there is much we can do.

    So no, it won't have a bad effect in the long term.

    Regards,
    Martin
    well andy at rep***lab.com routinely uses pserver to do his checkins, with
    a 24 hour gap that is certainly a problem :(

    It seems that ssh is the way to go. We have systems where ssh 1 is not
    the default, but on win32 our clients all seem to be stuck on rsa 1.
    --
    Robin Becker
  • Martin v. Löwis at Jun 21, 2003 at 11:32 am

    Robin Becker <robin at jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

    well andy at rep***lab.com routinely uses pserver to do his checkins, with
    a 24 hour gap that is certainly a problem :(
    I don't understand: On SF, you cannot checkin through pserver, so I
    don't think this statement is literally true. It appears you are not
    talking about the Python project here (as Andy Robinson can't commit
    to that) - however, I agree this is a current problem. As I said, I
    expect this to go away in a few months, atleast for the Python
    project.

    I have been considering to convert my own anonymous sandboxes to
    read-write sandboxes, as well, to always get the current code.
    It seems that ssh is the way to go. We have systems where ssh 1 is
    not the default, but on win32 our clients all seem to be stuck on
    rsa 1.
    Hmm. There are plenty of alternatives for setting up cvs+ssh on
    Windows (OpenSSH, Cygwin OpenSSH and Putty come to mind). My preferred
    solution is to use an SSH client which stores private keys in disk
    files, and then not use any kind of pass-phrase on the key. Instead,
    encrypt the file system with NTFS encryption (requires W2kSP3 or
    WXP9). With that, no pass-phrase typing is needed when performing CVS
    operations.

    Regards,
    Martin
  • Christos TZOTZIOY Georgiou at Jun 21, 2003 at 5:06 pm
    On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:24:51 -0500, rumours say that Skip Montanaro
    <skip at pobox.com> might have written:
    Robin> There are thousands of projects hosted at sf.net and it seems it
    Robin> has become a single point of failure for open source. Is it a
    Robin> good idea.
    Maybe Microsoft should buy SF?
    In such a case, I can already imagine the flow of official statements
    about how much MS is embracing open source, much unlike BSD licenses and
    TCP/IP stack implementations...
    --
    TZOTZIOY, I speak England very best,
    Microsoft Security Alert: the Matrix began as open source.

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