FAQ
Jef Raskin has been a major contributor to development of the
Macintosh and the Canon Cat. He has a new human computer interface
project, which uses Python and is also a Python IDE.
Start here:

http://humane.sourceforge.net/the/

--
John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net>
Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
"Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"

Search Discussions

  • Jeff Epler at Dec 28, 2002 at 8:10 pm
    wow. the modal interface of "vi" rehashed in a way that requries you to
    chord every command with shift (excluding all disabled persons is certainly
    "humane"), plus only a fraction of vi's commands.

    count me out...

    Jeff
  • Andrew Dalke at Dec 29, 2002 at 1:25 am

    Jeff Epler wrote:
    wow. the modal interface of "vi" rehashed in a way that requries you to
    chord every command with shift (excluding all disabled persons is certainly
    "humane"), plus only a fraction of vi's commands.
    The phrase is 'quasimodal' and his book describes why quasimodal
    is different than modal. Eg, shift, ctrl, and alt are all quasimodes.

    As to disabled people, he explictly states

    ] If any LEAP fails due to there being no match in the text,
    ] an audible indication should be started immediately, while the
    ] LEAP quasimode is still in effect. This is necessary so that
    ] blind users can tell that a LEAP has failed, and for section
    ] 508 compliance.

    and elsewhere on the site (can't find the reference) he talked
    about how 1) this is supportable by existing sticky key solutions
    for people who can't press more than a key at a time and 2) the
    better solution is a keyboard with built-in "LEAP"[tm] keys (both
    forward and back -- in which case the search problem where leaping
    for "a3" also matches "A#" because of shift state problems.

    Andrew
    dalke at dalkescientific.com
  • Tom Zych at Dec 29, 2002 at 5:22 am

    The phrase is 'quasimodal' and his book describes why quasimodal
    is different than modal. Eg, shift, ctrl, and alt are all quasimodes.
    Quasimodal? Can't quite place it, but that phrase rings a bell...

    --
    Tom Zych
    This email address will expire at some point to thwart spammers.
    Permanent address is rot13(gbzmlpu at cbobk.pbz).
  • Jeff Epler at Dec 29, 2002 at 4:37 pm

    On Sat, Dec 28, 2002 at 06:25:18PM -0700, Andrew Dalke wrote:
    Jeff Epler wrote:
    wow. the modal interface of "vi" rehashed in a way that requries you to
    chord every command with shift (excluding all disabled persons is certainly
    "humane"), plus only a fraction of vi's commands.
    The phrase is 'quasimodal' and his book describes why quasimodal
    is different than modal. Eg, shift, ctrl, and alt are all quasimodes.
    So couldn't you easily make a "quasimodal" vi? Make esc-press send '^['
    (escape) and esc-release send 'a' (append), and cause vi to start in insert
    mode. Also, to better imitate LEAP (but still with the power of
    regular expressions), use vim and ':set incsearch'. You'll need a
    small additional patch to ring the bell when the (partial) search gives
    no matches. (emacs is even closer with C-i/C-r, no regular expressions and
    it beeps before wrapping the search)

    Looking at it another way, the sticky keys that a person with limited
    mobility must use would turn this "quasimodal" interface into a modal one.
    If modal interfaces are really a whole realm of bad, then surely this
    quasimodal interface is bad since people with certain disabilities will
    have to use a fully modal variant of the interface.

    I'm a rabid vim user, and apparently not particularly bright if I can't
    grasp just what makes quasimodal UI so great, but I don't have any trouble
    being in the right mode to do what I need to do. And that frequently
    includes using / and ? to get to the right position for my next edit.

    Oh well, I shouldn't be so foolish as to say in the early days of the most
    "user-hostile" system out there, unix geeks invented something as great
    as User Interface Pioneer Jef Raskin decades ago, and simply failed to
    include one little idea that may or may not be an improvement over a
    fully modal interface. (and probably couldn't have been implemented on the
    terminals of the day, anyway, since shift-space doesn't have a distinct
    character code and there are no character codes for "shift pressed" and
    "shift released")

    Jeff
  • Peter Hansen at Dec 31, 2002 at 2:19 am

    Jeff Epler wrote:
    Looking at it another way, the sticky keys that a person with limited
    mobility must use would turn this "quasimodal" interface into a modal one.
    If modal interfaces are really a whole realm of bad, then surely this
    quasimodal interface is bad since people with certain disabilities will
    have to use a fully modal variant of the interface.
    I strongly suspect that for one who has to use a computer by the
    sole means of a suck/blow switch (i.e. two outputs!) the use of modes
    is not only a Good Thing, but it's *essential* to practical operation
    of the machine.

    Even modes cannot *always* be considered bad...

    -Peter
  • John Roth at Dec 29, 2002 at 3:20 am
    "John Hall" <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net> wrote in message
    news:8mnq0vsdhk2ttb7dnslbtjlu8cjp6gmhs8 at 4ax.com...
    Jef Raskin has been a major contributor to development of the
    Macintosh and the Canon Cat. He has a new human computer interface
    project, which uses Python and is also a Python IDE.
    Start here:

    http://humane.sourceforge.net/the/
    Unfortunately, it only seems to be for the Mac at the moment.
    I'd like to see it for the other systems, too.

    John Roth


    ]
    --
    John W Hall <wweexxsseessssaa at telusplanet.net>
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
    "Helping People Prosper in the Information Age"
  • Francis Burton at Dec 31, 2002 at 1:09 pm

    Unfortunately, it only seems to be for the Mac at the moment.
    I'd like to see it for the other systems, too.
    Yes, me too. Any idea why there hasn't been more effort put into
    porting it to Windows and Linux? Or is it that these platforms
    have a fundamental limitation that makes it very difficult to do?

    Francis
  • Andrew Dalke at Dec 31, 2002 at 4:59 pm

    Francis Burton wrote:
    Yes, me too. Any idea why there hasn't been more effort put into
    porting it to Windows and Linux?
    Probably because Raskin knows the Mac platform very well. It's
    an open source project, with an explicit call out for assistence.
    Or is it that these platforms
    have a fundamental limitation that makes it very difficult to do?
    No.

    Andrew
    dalke at dalkescientific.com
  • Laotseu at Dec 30, 2002 at 1:37 am

    Jeff Epler wrote:
    wow. the modal interface of "vi" rehashed in a way that requries you to
    chord every command with shift (excluding all disabled persons is certainly
    "humane"), plus only a fraction of vi's commands.

    count me out...

    Jeff
    Was my first feeling too, then I kept on reading... and, well, wait and
    see, but there is (there seems to be ?) much more in this than just a vi
    clone.

    Laotseu

Related Discussions

Discussion Navigation
viewthread | post
Discussion Overview
grouppython-list @
categoriespython
postedDec 28, '02 at 8:23a
activeDec 31, '02 at 4:59p
posts10
users8
websitepython.org

People

Translate

site design / logo © 2022 Grokbase