FAQ
I started this thread some time ago and got to the point where I was
able to trace things to Postfix and ultimately found where the message
was apparently sent to my ISP.

May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/smtpd[3674]: connect from dap002[127.0.0.1]
May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/smtpd[3674]: E904B2001:
clientÚp002[127.0.0.1]
May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/cleanup[3677]: E904B2001:
message-id=<mailman.0.1304591680.3673.mailman at bellsouth.net>
May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2599]: E904B2001:
from=<mailman-bounces at bellsouth.net>, size33, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/smtpd[3674]: disconnect from
dap002[127.0.0.1]
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 220 isp.att.net - Maillennium
ESMTP/MULTIBOX frfwmhc04 #3
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: >
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: EHLO home.bellsouth.net
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-isp.att.net
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-7BIT
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-8BITMIME
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-DSN
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-HELP
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-NOOP
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-PIPELINING
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-SIZE 26214400
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-VERS V05.40c++
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 XMVP 2
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: server features: 0x900f size
26214400
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: Using ESMTP PIPELINING, TCP
send buffer size is 4096
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: >
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: MAIL
FROM:<mailman-bounces at bellsouth.net> SIZE33
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: >
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: RCPT TO:<dap1 at bellsouth.net>
ORCPT=rfc822;dap1 at bellsouth.net
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: >
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: DATA
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 ok
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 ok
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 354 ok
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: >
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: .
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: >
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: QUIT
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: <
mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 ok ; id 110505103442H040014q56e
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: E904B2001:
to=<dap1 at bellsouth.net>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25,
delay=1, delays=0.05/0.06/0.61/0.3, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok ;
id 110505103442H040014q56e)
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: name_mask: resource
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: name_mask: software
May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2599]: E904B2001: removed

As you can see, it appears everything is working properly as far as
Postfix is concerned. However, my ISP never delivers the email to the
recipient. All other mail to/from my mailing lists work and are
successfully delivered including welcome messages, etc. This means to me
(unless someone can think of something else) that the reason my ISP is
not delivering the mail is because it is finding something unique in
this particular email that does not exist in all others. There is no
bounced message from the ISP so it must be throwing it into the bit
bucket for some reason and I am not getting even a hint as to what is
wrong. Can someone think of what is unique about these messages from all
the others mailman generates? I doubt it is anything in the body so it
seems it has to be something in the headers. The only straw I can grasp
is perhaps the from address. 'Mailman-bounces' does not exist but is
that not the from address of all mailman generated messages?

Thanks.


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  • Ralf Hildebrandt at May 5, 2011 at 11:18 am

    * Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>:
    I started this thread some time ago and got to the point where I was
    able to trace things to Postfix and ultimately found where the message
    was apparently sent to my ISP.

    May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/smtpd[3674]: connect from dap002[127.0.0.1]
    May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/smtpd[3674]: E904B2001:
    clientÚp002[127.0.0.1]
    May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/cleanup[3677]: E904B2001:
    message-id=<mailman.0.1304591680.3673.mailman at bellsouth.net>
    May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2599]: E904B2001:
    from=<mailman-bounces at bellsouth.net>, size33, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
    May 5 06:34:41 dap002 postfix/smtpd[3674]: disconnect from
    dap002[127.0.0.1]
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 220 isp.att.net - Maillennium ESMTP/MULTIBOX frfwmhc04 #3
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: > mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: EHLO home.bellsouth.net
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-isp.att.net
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-7BIT
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-8BITMIME
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-DSN
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-HELP
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-NOOP
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-PIPELINING
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-SIZE 26214400
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250-VERS V05.40c++
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 XMVP 2
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: server features: 0x900f size 26214400
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: Using ESMTP PIPELINING, TCP send buffer size is 4096
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: > mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: MAIL FROM:<mailman-bounces at bellsouth.net> SIZE33
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: > mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: RCPT TO:<dap1 at bellsouth.net> ORCPT=rfc822;dap1 at bellsouth.net
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: > mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: DATA
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 ok
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 ok
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 354 ok
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: > mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: .
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: > mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: QUIT
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: < mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25: 250 ok ; id 110505103442H040014q56e
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: E904B2001: to=<dap1 at bellsouth.net>, relay=mail.bellsouth.net[204.127.217.17]:25,
    delay=1, delays=0.05/0.06/0.61/0.3, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 ok ; id 110505103442H040014q56e)
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: name_mask: resource
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/smtp[3678]: name_mask: software
    May 5 06:34:42 dap002 postfix/qmgr[2599]: E904B2001: removed

    As you can see, it appears everything is working properly as far as
    Postfix is concerned.

    Yes.
    However, my ISP never delivers the email to the recipient.
    Ask bellsouth support what happend with the mail
    id 110505103442H040014q56e
    All other mail to/from my mailing lists work and are successfully
    delivered including welcome messages, etc. This means to me (unless
    someone can think of something else) that the reason my ISP is not
    delivering the mail is because it is finding something unique in this
    particular email that does not exist in all others. Yup.
    There is no bounced message from the ISP so it must be throwing it into
    the bit bucket Yup.
    for some reason and I am not getting even a hint as to what is wrong.
    Can someone think of what is unique about these messages from all the
    others mailman generates?
    No, but you can bcc: this mail to you and then use divide & conquer to
    find out what makes them reject the mail.
    I doubt it is anything in the body so it seems it has to be something
    in the headers.
    So try sending the mail with headers only :)
    The only straw I can grasp is perhaps the from address.
    'Mailman-bounces' does not exist but is that not the from address of
    all mailman generated messages?
    It depends

    --
    Ralf Hildebrandt
    Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
    Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
    Campus Benjamin Franklin
    Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
    Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
    ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de
  • Dennis Putnam at May 10, 2011 at 1:24 pm
    Thanks for the help. Should we take this off list, since this seems
    unique, or do you think the list would be interested?
    On 5/10/2011 9:15 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
    * Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>:
    I have gotten some feedback from my list members. It seems no one got
    the message although the log shows they all were accepted by my ISP. I'm
    stuck.
    So you'll have to got the bcc route and find out WHAT PHRASE EXACTLY
    causes the mail to be stuck.

    I can help, since I find this highly interesting :)
    On 5/10/2011 5:08 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
    * Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>:
    As a followup, there is something definitely weird going on but I am
    pretty sure it is not a mailman problem per se. I am still waiting for
    some feedback from my list members but it appears that the problem is my
    own email address.
    Very very odd. Meaning you're the only person NOT to receive the mails?
    I can and do get other messages as both the list owner and a member but
    not this particular one. However, as I said before, the message is
    definitely being accepted by my ISP's mail server. This is probably
    going to be one of those unsolvable problems with my ISP unless there
    are other list members that did not receive the reminder.

    Thanks for your help.
    On 5/5/2011 10:05 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
    Well, you can use:

    recipient_bcc_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/recipient_bcc_maps

    containing
    dap1 at bellsouth.net someaccount at localhost
    then "postmap /etc/postfix/recipient_bcc_maps"

    which would then deliver a copy of EVERY mail sent to
    dap1 at bellsouth.net in copy to someaccount at localhost
    Ohhhh! You meant in Postfix. I thought you were talking about mailman.
    Interesting idea, I'll give it a try.
    All you THEN have to do is to coax mailman into actually sending such
    a mail :)
    Once you have a copy of the faulty mail at the mailbox for
    someaccount at localhost you can always do stuff like:

    cat themail.txt | sendmail -i -f mailman-bounces at bellsouth.net dap1 at bellsouth.net
    Another good idea I didn't think of that I can try with any text. That
    would at least confirm if from is the culprit.
    You can then use an editor to remove portions from, the email UNTIL it
    arrives at bellsouth!
    Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try them and get back if nothing
    definitive shows up.
    Just let me know if you encounter any problems. I find this highly
    interesting :)

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  • Mark Sapiro at May 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Dennis Putnam wrote:
    Thanks for the help. Should we take this off list, since this seems
    unique, or do you think the list would be interested?

    It seems most of this thread was off list until now.

    On 5/10/2011 9:15 AM, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
    * Dennis Putnam <dap1 at bellsouth.net>:
    I have gotten some feedback from my list members. It seems no one got
    the message although the log shows they all were accepted by my ISP. I'm
    stuck.
    So you'll have to got the bcc route and find out WHAT PHRASE EXACTLY
    causes the mail to be stuck.

    I can help, since I find this highly interesting :)

    As I understand it, Mailman delivers outgoing mail via a local Postfix
    which in turn relays all mail through your own ISP
    (mail.bellsouth.net). The problem you see is that monthly password
    reminders, and only monthly password reminders get discarded somewhere
    between mail.bellsouth.net and the recipients.

    There are two things unique about password reminders:

    1) They are sent from the 'mailman' site list and thus have envelope
    from mailman-bounces at ... Most other mail is from a non-site list and
    has envelope from listname-bounces where listname is not mailman. You
    mentioned in your first post that mailman-bounces doesn't exist. Why
    not? 'mailman is a list and has a full set of 10 mailman*@...
    addresses just like any other list. These should all be deliverable.

    2) They are ubiquitous - so much so that in some circles, the first of
    the month is known as "Mailman day". This can cause some spam filters
    to flag reminders as spam.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Ralf Hildebrandt at May 10, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    * Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net>:

    As I understand it, Mailman delivers outgoing mail via a local Postfix
    which in turn relays all mail through your own ISP
    (mail.bellsouth.net). The problem you see is that monthly password
    reminders, and only monthly password reminders get discarded somewhere
    between mail.bellsouth.net and the recipients. Correct.
    There are two things unique about password reminders:

    1) They are sent from the 'mailman' site list and thus have envelope
    from mailman-bounces at ... Most other mail is from a non-site list and
    has envelope from listname-bounces where listname is not mailman. You
    mentioned in your first post that mailman-bounces doesn't exist. Why
    not? 'mailman is a list and has a full set of 10 mailman*@...
    addresses just like any other list. These should all be deliverable. Indeed.
    2) They are ubiquitous - so much so that in some circles, the first of
    the month is known as "Mailman day". This can cause some spam filters
    to flag reminders as spam.
    Also, they contain phishing like phrasing.

    --
    Ralf Hildebrandt
    Gesch?ftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
    Charit? - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin
    Campus Benjamin Franklin
    Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
    Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
    ralf.hildebrandt at charite.de | http://www.charite.de

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