FAQ
Mails sent from outlook exchange will not be sent to a closed list
when there is a German umlaut within the name like

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>

in general:

Mail sent
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Surname,_Givenname?= <ADDRESS at lrz.de>

causes an undeliverable message by mailman sent to
surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de, if the list in a closed list:

Jan 11 10:32:16 lxmhs42 postfix/cleanup[1482]: 0F2DD1CD6DB5:
message-id=<mailman.813.1294738335.15040.testliste3 at lists.lrz.de>
Jan 11 10:32:16 lxmhs42 postfix/cleanup[1482]: 0F2DD1CD6DB5: warning:
header Subject: Test
mit Surname, Givenname from lxmhs42.srv.lrz.de[10.156.6.28];
from=<testliste3-bounces at lists.lrz.de>
to=<surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de> proto=ESMTP
helo=<lxmhs42.srv.lrz.de>
Jan 11 10:32:16 lxmhs42 postfix/qmgr[28553]: 0F2DD1CD6DB5:
from=<testliste3-bounces at lists.lrz.de>, size"13, nrcpt=1 (queue
active)
Jan 11 10:32:16 lxmhs42 postfix/smtpd[1485]: disconnect from
lxmhs42.srv.lrz.de[10.156.6.28]
Jan 11 10:32:16 lxmhs42 postfix/smtp[1486]: 0F2DD1CD6DB5:
to=<surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de>,
relay=postbulk.mail.lrz.de[129.187.255.22]:25,
delay=0.08, delays=0.02/0.01/0.01/0.05, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250
2.0.0 Ok: queued as
15FD6200AFB4)
Jan 11 10:32:16 lxmhs42 postfix/qmgr[28553]: 0F2DD1CD6DB5: removed

with the content like:

It is not allowd to you to send mails to this mailing list because
you aren't member of the list.

Outlook Exchange goes conform with RFC 2047 .


Is there any patch for this problem?

Thanks in advance

Search Discussions

  • Mark Sapiro at Jan 11, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Werner Spirk wrote:
    Mails sent from outlook exchange will not be sent to a closed list
    when there is a German umlaut within the name like

    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>

    in general:

    Mail sent
    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Surname,_Givenname?= <ADDRESS at lrz.de>

    causes an undeliverable message by mailman sent to
    surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de, if the list in a closed list:

    It is not the umlaut that causes the problem. It is the comma.

    Outlook Exchange goes conform with RFC 2047 .

    You are correct, but this is tricky. The intent of RFC 2047 section 5,
    rule 3 is that an encoded word such as
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= when used as the real name portion of
    an address will not contain any of the characters which are not
    allowed unquoted in this context, and this is true of that encoded
    word.

    However, Mailman looks at the From: header, and because of the way it
    processes this, it sees an ascii decoded header value which looks like
    'Mai, G?nter <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>'. It then parses this and gets two
    email addresses, 'mai' and 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' because of the
    unquoted comma.

    For some purposes, such as determining whether a post is from a list
    member, Mailman considers all the addresses and will determine that
    this is from a list member if 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is a member, but
    if the post is held for some reason such as 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is
    moderated, the notice to the user will be sent to only the first
    address 'mai' which is invalid.

    So, yes, you are correct that Mailman is not doing the right thing here.

    I've developed a patch that I think will fix this without any other
    side effects. I've attached that as rfc2047.patch.txt. Please try this
    patch and see if it solves your problems.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

    -------------- next part --------------
    An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
    Name: rfc2047.patch.txt
    URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20110111/745cd800/attachment-0001.txt>
  • Werner Spirk at Jan 12, 2011 at 2:01 pm
    Hello Mark,

    I put in your patch and it works !!

    Thank you very much

    Werner


    On Tue, 11 Jan 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Werner Spirk wrote:
    Mails sent from outlook exchange will not be sent to a closed list
    when there is a German umlaut within the name like

    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>

    in general:

    Mail sent
    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Surname,_Givenname?= <ADDRESS at lrz.de>

    causes an undeliverable message by mailman sent to
    surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de, if the list in a closed list:

    It is not the umlaut that causes the problem. It is the comma.

    Outlook Exchange goes conform with RFC 2047 .

    You are correct, but this is tricky. The intent of RFC 2047 section 5,
    rule 3 is that an encoded word such as
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= when used as the real name portion of
    an address will not contain any of the characters which are not
    allowed unquoted in this context, and this is true of that encoded
    word.

    However, Mailman looks at the From: header, and because of the way it
    processes this, it sees an ascii decoded header value which looks like
    'Mai, G?nter <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>'. It then parses this and gets two
    email addresses, 'mai' and 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' because of the
    unquoted comma.

    For some purposes, such as determining whether a post is from a list
    member, Mailman considers all the addresses and will determine that
    this is from a list member if 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is a member, but
    if the post is held for some reason such as 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is
    moderated, the notice to the user will be sent to only the first
    address 'mai' which is invalid.

    So, yes, you are correct that Mailman is not doing the right thing here.

    I've developed a patch that I think will fix this without any other
    side effects. I've attached that as rfc2047.patch.txt. Please try this
    patch and see if it solves your problems.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
  • Werner Spirk at Jan 12, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Werner Spirk wrote:
    Hello Mark,

    I put in your patch and it works !!
    That was mine: the test was sent to an open list
    sorry -- it didn't do

    here the diffs ( are the patches correct?):

    diff Message.py Message.py.orig
    1c1
    < # Copyright (C) 1998-2011 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    ---
    # Copyright (C) 1998-2009 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    154,156c154
    < # Actually, just get the raw header as one line in case
    the
    < # decoded words contain a comma.
    < fieldval = Utils.oneline(fieldval, 'us-ascii', raw=True)
    ---
    fieldval = Utils.oneline(fieldval, 'us-ascii')
    212c210
    < fieldvals = [Utils.oneline(fv, 'us-ascii',
    raw=True)
    ---
    fieldvals = [Utils.oneline(fv, 'us-ascii')
    diff Utils.py U.orig
    UserDesc.py Utils.py Utils.py.orig
    UserDesc.pyc Utils.pyc Utils.py.roig
    lxmhs42 mailman/Mailman> diff Utils.py Utils.py.orig
    1c1
    < # Copyright (C) 1998-2011 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    ---
    # Copyright (C) 1998-2010 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
    889,892c889
    < def oneline(s, cset, rawúlse):
    < if raw:
    < # Just return the header as one line without decoding
    < return EMPTYSTRING.join(s.splitlines())
    ---
    def oneline(s, cset):
    Werner

    Thank you very much

    Werner


    On Tue, 11 Jan 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Werner Spirk wrote:
    Mails sent from outlook exchange will not be sent to a closed list
    when there is a German umlaut within the name like

    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>

    in general:

    Mail sent
    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Surname,_Givenname?= <ADDRESS at lrz.de>

    causes an undeliverable message by mailman sent to
    surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de, if the list in a closed list:

    It is not the umlaut that causes the problem. It is the comma.

    Outlook Exchange goes conform with RFC 2047 .

    You are correct, but this is tricky. The intent of RFC 2047 section 5,
    rule 3 is that an encoded word such as
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= when used as the real name portion of
    an address will not contain any of the characters which are not
    allowed unquoted in this context, and this is true of that encoded
    word.

    However, Mailman looks at the From: header, and because of the way it
    processes this, it sees an ascii decoded header value which looks like
    'Mai, G?nter <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>'. It then parses this and gets two
    email addresses, 'mai' and 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' because of the
    unquoted comma.

    For some purposes, such as determining whether a post is from a list
    member, Mailman considers all the addresses and will determine that
    this is from a list member if 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is a member, but
    if the post is held for some reason such as 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is
    moderated, the notice to the user will be sent to only the first
    address 'mai' which is invalid.

    So, yes, you are correct that Mailman is not doing the right thing here.

    I've developed a patch that I think will fix this without any other
    side effects. I've attached that as rfc2047.patch.txt. Please try this
    patch and see if it solves your problems.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
  • Mark Sapiro at Jan 12, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Werner Spirk wrote:

    I put in your patch and it works !!
    That was mine: the test was sent to an open list
    sorry -- it didn't do

    What exactly doesn't work in this case? How is the list configured and
    exactly what went wrong?


    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Werner Spirk at Jan 12, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Werner Spirk wrote:
    On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Werner Spirk wrote:


    Hello Mark,

    I put in your patch and it works !!
    That was mine: the test was sent to an open list
    sorry -- it didn't do
    That's not really correct.
    There are three cases:

    1. the patch works if the sender is within the closed list
    2. it doesn't work if the sender is in accept_these_nonmembers
    3. the DSN goes to the wrong address if the sender is not allowed
    to post to the list


    Best regards
    Werner




    On Tue, 11 Jan 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Werner Spirk wrote:
    Mails sent from outlook exchange will not be sent to a closed list
    when there is a German umlaut within the name like

    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>

    in general:

    Mail sent
    From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Surname,_Givenname?= <ADDRESS at lrz.de>

    causes an undeliverable message by mailman sent to
    surname at mailman.lrz-muenchen.de, if the list in a closed list:

    It is not the umlaut that causes the problem. It is the comma.

    Outlook Exchange goes conform with RFC 2047 .

    You are correct, but this is tricky. The intent of RFC 2047 section 5,
    rule 3 is that an encoded word such as
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mai,_Günter?= when used as the real name portion of
    an address will not contain any of the characters which are not
    allowed unquoted in this context, and this is true of that encoded
    word.

    However, Mailman looks at the From: header, and because of the way it
    processes this, it sees an ascii decoded header value which looks like
    'Mai, G?nter <Guenter.Mai at lrz.de>'. It then parses this and gets two
    email addresses, 'mai' and 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' because of the
    unquoted comma.

    For some purposes, such as determining whether a post is from a list
    member, Mailman considers all the addresses and will determine that
    this is from a list member if 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is a member, but
    if the post is held for some reason such as 'guenter.mai at lrz.de' is
    moderated, the notice to the user will be sent to only the first
    address 'mai' which is invalid.

    So, yes, you are correct that Mailman is not doing the right thing here.

    I've developed a patch that I think will fix this without any other
    side effects. I've attached that as rfc2047.patch.txt. Please try this
    patch and see if it solves your problems.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
  • Mark Sapiro at Jan 12, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    Werner Spirk wrote:
    That's not really correct.
    There are three cases:

    1. the patch works if the sender is within the closed list
    2. it doesn't work if the sender is in accept_these_nonmembers
    3. the DSN goes to the wrong address if the sender is not allowed
    to post to the list

    This is the behavior I would expect without the patch. Did you restart
    Mailman after applying the patches?

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Werner Spirk at Jan 12, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    On Wed, 12 Jan 2011, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Werner Spirk wrote:
    That's not really correct.
    There are three cases:

    1. the patch works if the sender is within the closed list
    2. it doesn't work if the sender is in accept_these_nonmembers
    3. the DSN goes to the wrong address if the sender is not allowed
    to post to the list

    This is the behavior I would expect without the patch. Did you restart
    Mailman after applying the patches?
    OK - you are right: I did'nt restart mailman.

    Sorry for that

    Thanks a lot
    Werner


    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    Werner Spirk . . Tel.: +49 89 35831 8707 |
    Leibniz-Rechenzentrum (_) (_) Fax : +49 89 35831 8507 |
    Boltzmannstr. 1 | | | | |
    85748 Garching |o| |o| Email: Spirk at lrz.de |
    /\| | |
    Deutschland bei M?nchen http://www.lrz.de/~spirk/ |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

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postedJan 11, '11 at 11:58a
activeJan 12, '11 at 3:37p
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