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hi there... wondering if fake email addresses in a mailman list can get
cleaned up with the bounces options. just testing with one and the mail
log says (correctly) it could not resolve the host. is this considered a
hard bounce by mailman?! i have enabled the bounce processing, the
maximum bounce score is 1.0, the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are
set to 0 expecting immediate removal. now that i sent a couple of test
messages out that fake address is still in the members list. what needs
to happened?

thanks..

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  • Mark Sapiro at May 4, 2010 at 3:19 am

    kalin m wrote:
    hi there... wondering if fake email addresses in a mailman list can get
    cleaned up with the bounces options. just testing with one and the mail
    log says (correctly) it could not resolve the host. is this considered a
    hard bounce by mailman?!

    Is it considered a hard bounce by your MTA? I.e. is it a 5xx or a 4xx
    status. That's what determines whether Mailman consideres it a bounce
    or not.

    i have enabled the bounce processing, the
    maximum bounce score is 1.0, the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are
    set to 0 expecting immediate removal. now that i sent a couple of test
    messages out that fake address is still in the members list. what needs
    to happened?

    Your MTA needs to return a 5xx for the recipient to Mailman during SMTP
    or to send a 5xx DSN to listname-bounces.

    Is the message still queued and being retried in the MTA, or is it
    still being retried by Mailman?

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Kalin m at May 5, 2010 at 1:08 am
    so if it's not 5xx it's not a bad email? i see dsn=4.0.0. that's not
    enough?

    i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly
    state that it should be discarded right away...


    bounce settings:

    bounce_score_threshold = 1.0
    bounce_info_stale_after = 10
    bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 0
    bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval = 0

    not sure about the bounce_info_stale_after. the way i interpret this is
    that the bounce information will be kept for about 10 days in case the
    score rises. if i put this down to zero the score will start clean every
    day. is that correct? or is this the reason for the repeated log entries
    - lots of to=<vvv at zzzzzz.com> attempts...

    here, from the maillog:
    to=<vvv at zzzzzz.com>, delay:42:23, xdelay�:00:00, mailer=esmtp,
    prix5918, relay=zzzzzz.com., dsn=4.0.0, statÞferred: Name server:
    zzzzzz.com.: host
    name lookup failure

    thanks...


    Mark Sapiro wrote:
    kalin m wrote:
    hi there... wondering if fake email addresses in a mailman list can get
    cleaned up with the bounces options. just testing with one and the mail
    log says (correctly) it could not resolve the host. is this considered a
    hard bounce by mailman?!

    Is it considered a hard bounce by your MTA? I.e. is it a 5xx or a 4xx
    status. That's what determines whether Mailman consideres it a bounce
    or not.


    i have enabled the bounce processing, the
    maximum bounce score is 1.0, the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are
    set to 0 expecting immediate removal. now that i sent a couple of test
    messages out that fake address is still in the members list. what needs
    to happened?

    Your MTA needs to return a 5xx for the recipient to Mailman during SMTP
    or to send a 5xx DSN to listname-bounces.

    Is the message still queued and being retried in the MTA, or is it
    still being retried by Mailman?
  • Grant Taylor at May 5, 2010 at 1:29 am

    kalin m wrote:
    so if it's not 5xx it's not a bad email? i see dsn=4.0.0. that's not
    enough?
    In SMTP 4.y.z DSNs are "temporary" errors. They could be caused by a
    spam filter over loaded, or the system shutting down, or...
    i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly
    state that it should be discarded right away...
    The 4.y.z should be seen as an invitation for the SMTP server to try
    sending the message again at a later time.

    The MTA will eventually time out the message and generate a permanent error.



    Grant. . . .
  • Mark Sapiro at May 5, 2010 at 3:16 am

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    kalin m wrote:
    so if it's not 5xx it's not a bad email? i see dsn=4.0.0. that's not
    enough?
    In SMTP 4.y.z DSNs are "temporary" errors. They could be caused by a
    spam filter over loaded, or the system shutting down, or...
    i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly
    state that it should be discarded right away...
    The 4.y.z should be seen as an invitation for the SMTP server to try
    sending the message again at a later time.

    The MTA will eventually time out the message and generate a permanent error.

    Or, if the MTA returns the 4xx status directly to Mailman during SMTP,
    Mailman will retry the send every DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT (default 1 hour)
    for DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days), but in this case, mailman
    will eventually give up but not record a bounce.

    If this is the case and you want Mailman to record a bounce, you have
    to arrange for your MTA to return a 5xx status for an invalid
    recipient domain.

    So the first question is where is the message. Is it queued in the MTA,
    or is it in Mailman's retry queue. If it's queued in the MTA, as Grant
    says, the MTA will eventually time out on this message and return a
    hard bounce to Mailman. If it is queued in Mailman, mailman will
    eventually give up and no bounce will be recorded.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Barry Finkel at May 5, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    In SMTP 4.y.z DSNs are "temporary" errors. They could be caused by a
    spam filter over loaded, or the system shutting down, or...
    i'm assuming it's retried by the mta. the settings in mailman clearly
    state that it should be discarded right away...
    The 4.y.z should be seen as an invitation for the SMTP server to try
    sending the message again at a later time.

    The MTA will eventually time out the message and generate a permanent error.
    I assume that there will be a warning message sent back to the "sender"
    after the mail has been queued for a few hours (we have in Postfix
    "delay_warning_time = 8"). I assume that the warning message will
    be sent to the list -bounces address, and that Mailman will process
    this warning correctly.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Barry S. Finkel
    Computing and Information Systems Division
    Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277
    9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
    Building 240, Room 5.B.8 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
    Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994
  • Mark Sapiro at May 5, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Barry Finkel wrote:
    I assume that there will be a warning message sent back to the "sender"
    after the mail has been queued for a few hours (we have in Postfix
    "delay_warning_time = 8"). I assume that the warning message will
    be sent to the list -bounces address, and that Mailman will process
    this warning correctly.

    As you note, the sending of warnings, the warning time and the ultimate
    give-up time are all controlled by the MTA and not Mailman. When
    Mailman receives a Delay warning, it does the right thing which is to
    ignore it.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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postedMay 4, '10 at 2:09a
activeMay 5, '10 at 1:31p
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