FAQ
Dear all,

I just started a new mailing list with Mailman. The welcome_msg is in
German and contains ???. Then I subscribed myself to the list and got
the following:

Hallöchen, Beiträge erwünscht, aber übertreibt es
nicht, ne.

Furthermore, if I know log into the admin area, it gives the same text,
that is, with all non-ASCII replaced by entities!

Another bug to file?!

H.
--
Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
adressen gewijzigd!
Adressen ge?ndert!
adresses changed!

Hendrik Maryns
Biesingerstra?e 5
D-72070 T?bingen
+491753353494
hamaryns at googlemail.com
http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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  • Mark Sapiro at Mar 21, 2009 at 7:03 pm

    Hendrik Maryns wrote:
    I just started a new mailing list with Mailman. The welcome_msg is in
    German and contains ???. Then I subscribed myself to the list and got
    the following:

    Hall&#246;chen, Beitr&#228;ge erw&#252;nscht, aber &#252;bertreibt es
    nicht, ne.

    What is the list's preferred language? If it is English (or if it was
    English when you set the welcome_msg), this is expected because
    Mailman's character set for English is us-ascii and the page you're
    posting from was sent with charset=us-ascii so your browser sends the
    non-ascii characters as numeric html entities.

    If the list's preferred language is German, whose charset is iso-8859-1,
    when you set the welcome_msg, this should not happen.

    Furthermore, if I know log into the admin area, it gives the same text,
    that is, with all non-ASCII replaced by entities!

    The reason you see the numeric HTML entities rather that the browser's
    rendering of them is over-protective escaping of the '&' in the HTML
    entity, but in this case, that's actually appropriate because the
    ultimate use of this message is in a plain text email where the HTML
    entities won't be rendered as characters anyway.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Hendrik Maryns at May 2, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Op 21-03-09 20:03 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen:
    Hendrik Maryns wrote:
    I just started a new mailing list with Mailman. The welcome_msg is in
    German and contains ???. Then I subscribed myself to the list and got
    the following:

    Hall&#246;chen, Beitr&#228;ge erw&#252;nscht, aber &#252;bertreibt es
    nicht, ne.

    What is the list's preferred language? If it is English (or if it was
    English when you set the welcome_msg), this is expected because
    Mailman's character set for English is us-ascii and the page you're
    posting from was sent with charset=us-ascii so your browser sends the
    non-ascii characters as numeric html entities.

    If the list's preferred language is German, whose charset is iso-8859-1,
    when you set the welcome_msg, this should not happen.
    Indeed. The problem is that Mailman assumes a list is English by
    default. If I create a new list, I start editing its settings. What
    you see first, is the welcome message etc. Only afterwards, I click
    through to the language settings and change it to German. This causes
    the problem.

    So a useful RFE would be to either not assume English, or to ask for the
    language at setup (or at first administrator login, since often a
    sysadmin will create the list and then hand it over to the list admin).

    Also, I noticed it is not possible to *remove* English as a list
    language. I do not see why. I certainly don?t need it in my lists.
    Furthermore, if I know log into the admin area, it gives the same text,
    that is, with all non-ASCII replaced by entities!

    The reason you see the numeric HTML entities rather that the browser's
    rendering of them is over-protective escaping of the '&' in the HTML
    entity, but in this case, that's actually appropriate because the
    ultimate use of this message is in a plain text email where the HTML
    entities won't be rendered as characters anyway.
    Yes. Caution is good, but isn?t this exaggerated?

    H.
    --
    Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
    adressen gewijzigd!
    Adressen ge?ndert!
    adresses changed!

    Hendrik Maryns
    Biesingerstra?e 5
    D-72070 T?bingen
    +4970717783365
    hamaryns at googlemail.com
    http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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  • Stephen J. Turnbull at May 3, 2009 at 12:21 am
    Hendrik Maryns writes:
    Yes. Caution is good, but isn?t this exaggerated?
    No. It's not just your systems that are at risk. Mine are, too.
    Remember, almost all of these measures are taken because someone has
    demonstrated a similar exploit, and most exploits are not done for
    their own sake, but rather to achieve a platform for cracking more
    systems.

    Of course, if you're a security expert and know what risks are
    present, and are sure they don't apply to your system, Mailman is open
    source, you can change it. If that sounds like too much work, don't
    you see that probably means you don't really have enough resources to
    change the settings and still be secure? On the other hand, systems
    and their environments are infinitely variable. The Mailman
    developers can not know enough about your system to make those
    decisions, either.
  • Mark Sapiro at May 5, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    Hendrik Maryns wrote:
    Indeed. The problem is that Mailman assumes a list is English by
    default. If I create a new list, I start editing its settings. What
    you see first, is the welcome message etc. Only afterwards, I click
    through to the language settings and change it to German. This causes
    the problem.

    So a useful RFE would be to either not assume English, or to ask for the
    language at setup (or at first administrator login, since often a
    sysadmin will create the list and then hand it over to the list admin).

    It's already there - see the documentation for DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE
    in Defaults.py.

    Set

    DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

    in mm_cfg.py and lists will be created with German as their
    preferred_language.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Hendrik Maryns at May 7, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Op 05-05-09 20:02 heeft Mark Sapiro als volgt van zich laten horen:
    Hendrik Maryns wrote:
    Indeed. The problem is that Mailman assumes a list is English by
    default. If I create a new list, I start editing its settings. What
    you see first, is the welcome message etc. Only afterwards, I click
    through to the language settings and change it to German. This causes
    the problem.

    So a useful RFE would be to either not assume English, or to ask for the
    language at setup (or at first administrator login, since often a
    sysadmin will create the list and then hand it over to the list admin).

    It's already there - see the documentation for DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE
    in Defaults.py.

    Set

    DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

    in mm_cfg.py and lists will be created with German as their
    preferred_language.
    I?ll mention this to the server administration, thanks!

    H.
    --
    Opgepast | Achtung | Attention
    adressen gewijzigd!
    Adressen ge?ndert!
    adresses changed!

    Hendrik Maryns
    Biesingerstra?e 5
    D-72070 T?bingen
    +4970717783365
    hamaryns at googlemail.com
    http://tcl.sfs.uni-tuebingen.de/~hendrik/


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postedMar 20, '09 at 8:12a
activeMay 7, '09 at 10:24a
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