FAQ
Hi all

I can't get my digests to be sended in other than MIME although Plain Text
is selected. Any way to get this solved ? I have access to the server if any
CLI need to be used. I'm running 2.1.11

Thanks and Regards
--
Matthieu HUTIN
Ceux qui ne luttent pas contre le mal, finissent par le servir....

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  • Brad Knowles at Nov 2, 2008 at 7:10 am

    Matthieu HUTIN wrote:

    I can't get my digests to be sended in other than MIME although Plain Text
    is selected. Any way to get this solved ? I have access to the server if any
    CLI need to be used. I'm running 2.1.11
    Check the messages in the digest, as well as the digest header and
    footer. I'm willing to bet that there is a character set or
    content-transfer-encoding difference somewhere in there, which is
    forcing the MIME formatting.

    --
    Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
    LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
  • Matthieu HUTIN at Nov 2, 2008 at 7:35 am

    02/11/08 08:10 : ??Brad Knowles?? a ?crit?:

    I can't get my digests to be sended in other than MIME although Plain Text
    is selected. Any way to get this solved ? I have access to the server if any
    CLI need to be used. I'm running 2.1.11
    Check the messages in the digest, as well as the digest header and
    footer. I'm willing to bet that there is a character set or
    content-transfer-encoding difference somewhere in there, which is
    forcing the MIME formatting.
    Hi Brad, thanks for answering

    I've done a test by sending an email myself. I always send email as plain
    test (I hate HTMl in mails ;-) ) So it should have been "digested" as plain
    texte according to my setup. However I may be wrong as this is the first
    time i'm facing this issues. It's been working perfectly for the past 5
    years with older mailman versions (2.1.5 was the last version I used without
    problems).

    That is wy I'm looking at a server-side problem.

    Any better guess ?

    Thanks and Regards

    #############
    My email
    #############

    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    From: Matthieu HUTIN <xxxx at gmail.com>
    Precedence: list
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    To: La liste technique du Macintosh <xxxx at macfr.com>
    Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:26:31 +0100
    Reply-To: La liste technique du Macintosh <xxxx at macfr.com>
    Message-ID: <C5321797.23DF2%xxxx at gmail.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="ISO-8859-1"
    Subject: [Macfr] Test pour Digest
    Message: 1

    @&é"'(§è!çà)

    Test pour Digest

    Matthieu HUTIN - Webmaster Macfr.com
    --

    #############
    My Digest
    #############

    Received: (qmail 21967 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2008 14:28:16 +0100
    Received: from localhost (HELO sd-16632.dedibox.fr) (127.0.0.1)
    by localhost with SMTP; 1 Nov 2008 14:28:16 +0100
    Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="==============44956343=="
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    From: xxx at macfr.com
    Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Lot_Liste,_Vol_11,_Parution_1?To: xxx at macfr.com
    Reply-To: xxx at macfr.com
    Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:28:15 +0100
    Message-ID: <mailman.0.1225546095.21960.xxx at macfr.com>
    X-BeenThere: xxx at macfr.com
    X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
    Precedence: list
    List-Id: La liste technique du Macintosh
    List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.macfr.com/cgi-bin/mailman/options/liste>,
    <mailto:xxx-request at macfr.com?subject=unsubscribe>
    List-Archive: <http://xxx.macfr.com/pipermail/liste>
    List-Post: <mailto:xxx at macfr.com>
    List-Help: <mailto:xxx-request at macfr.com?subject=help>
    List-Subscribe: <http://lists.macfr.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/liste>,
    <mailto:xxx-request at macfr.com?subject=subscribe>
    Sender: xxx-bounces at macfr.com
    Errors-To: xxx-bounces at macfr.com

    --==============44956343=Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Content-Description: Lot Liste, Vol 11, Parution 1



    --
    Matthieu HUTIN
    Ceux qui ne luttent pas contre le mal, finissent par le servir....
  • Brad Knowles at Nov 2, 2008 at 7:56 am

    Matthieu HUTIN wrote:

    I've done a test by sending an email myself. I always send email as plain
    test (I hate HTMl in mails ;-) ) So it should have been "digested" as plain
    texte according to my setup. However I may be wrong as this is the first
    time i'm facing this issues. It's been working perfectly for the past 5
    years with older mailman versions (2.1.5 was the last version I used without
    problems).
    You sent a text/plain, but you used iso-8859-1 as your character set,
    and you included binary characters. That got encoded as
    quoted-printable when it was sent, and that was preserved when the
    message was transmitted back out.

    Now, I'm not an expert in the workings of the underlying MIME or e-mail
    library code in Python that is used by Mailman, but I suspect that any
    non-USASCII characters in any of the input messages will force all the
    digests to be processed as MIME and not plain text. Unfortunately, for
    a language like French, that poses a problem since there are so many
    accents you have to account for.


    Now, Python is written by a very international community speaking many,
    many different languages, and to a somewhat lesser degree the same is
    true of Mailman. So, we are very sensitive to language and character
    set problems and we do everything we can to try to avoid causing
    problems for anyone else. But that means we *don't* take a "just send
    eight" approach to transmitting messages, and instead we actually try to
    "Do The Right Thing". Unfortunately, sometimes not everyone agrees on
    what that "Right Thing" is.


    Unfortunately, we really don't have all the information here that we
    need. We do see that the outgoing message gets wrapped up in a
    multipart/mixed, but we don't see what might have caused that to happen.

    I will also add that qmail is not one of my favourite MTAs, because I've
    seen more than a few problems caused by it (and I'm not very popular
    amongst the qmail communities). But I'm also aware that plenty of sites
    out there are using qmail on a daily basis without any problems, so I
    won't even talk about pointing the finger that direction until we've
    eliminated all other likely possibilities.


    If you want to send me a complete, unredacted copy of the message in
    question (with all headers intact), I'll be glad to take a look at it
    for you and see if I can spot anything obvious. Alternatively, if you
    like I can subscribe to your "liste" and we can try out some things that
    way. All I ask is that you keep in mind that I don't speak or read
    French, despite of the fact that I lived in Belgium for nearly eight
    years and my wife and I moved back to the US just a couple years ago.

    --
    Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
    LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
  • Matthieu HUTIN at Nov 5, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    02/11/08 08:56 : ??Brad Knowles?? a ?crit?:

    If you want to send me a complete, unredacted copy of the message in
    question (with all headers intact), I'll be glad to take a look at it
    for you and see if I can spot anything obvious. Alternatively, if you
    like I can subscribe to your "liste" and we can try out some things that
    way. All I ask is that you keep in mind that I don't speak or read
    French, despite of the fact that I lived in Belgium for nearly eight
    years and my wife and I moved back to the US just a couple years ago.
    Dear Brad

    Sorry for the delay I was out of town...

    Thank you very much for your detailed explanation and offer.

    Hopefully (but incomprehensibly) it is now working correctly after applying
    many times the Plain Text option in the mailman admin.

    What I still don't explain is that it looks like the Admin interface was
    displaying good setting, but the "real" file where is stored the information
    was not updated correctly (until it worked by magic !..)

    Do you kow where the plain text option is stored to check it if it happens
    again in the future ?

    Once agin thank you for your assistance. Even if I don't have a technical
    answer to my issue and it's working, I feel like I'm missing something not
    knowing why it didn't work for several weeks...

    Best
    --
    Matthieu HUTIN
    Ceux qui ne luttent pas contre le mal, finissent par le servir....
  • Brad Knowles at Nov 5, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    Matthieu HUTIN wrote:

    Do you kow where the plain text option is stored to check it if it happens
    again in the future ?
    Sorry, I'm not a developer, so I don't know the internals of Mailman. Mark
    or one of the other developers might be able to answer that question.
    Once agin thank you for your assistance. Even if I don't have a technical
    answer to my issue and it's working, I feel like I'm missing something not
    knowing why it didn't work for several weeks...
    That's a feeling I most definitely understand and sympathize with.

    --
    Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
    LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
  • Mark Sapiro at Nov 6, 2008 at 1:17 am

    Matthieu HUTIN wrote:
    What I still don't explain is that it looks like the Admin interface was
    displaying good setting, but the "real" file where is stored the information
    was not updated correctly (until it worked by magic !..)

    If you have GNU Mailman installed from source or from someones package
    withou major modifications, the list configuration, membership, member
    options, etc. are all in the lists/listname/config.pck file. The web
    admin interface reads them from there and updates them there and the
    process that produces the digests gets the settings from the same
    place.

    Even if you have a custom MemberAdaptor that uses some other persistent
    store for member options, buth the production of digests and the
    display in the admin interface should be seeing the same setting.
    Do you kow where the plain text option is stored to check it if it happens
    again in the future ?

    Assuming it's the standard MemberAdaptor, you can do

    bin/dumpdb lists/listname/config.pck

    In the output from that, there will be a user_options dictionary with
    keys of list member addresses and numeric values. These are decimal
    numbers which when viewed as binary have bits for various user options
    as defined in the "Bitfield for user options." section of Defaults.py.
    The bit for "plain" digests has weight = 8 in the decimal user_options
    value.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Matthieu HUTIN at Nov 6, 2008 at 9:39 am

    06/11/08 02:17 : ??Mark Sapiro?? a ?crit?:

    Assuming it's the standard MemberAdaptor, you can do

    bin/dumpdb lists/listname/config.pck

    In the output from that, there will be a user_options dictionary with
    keys of list member addresses and numeric values. These are decimal
    numbers which when viewed as binary have bits for various user options
    as defined in the "Bitfield for user options." section of Defaults.py.
    The bit for "plain" digests has weight = 8 in the decimal user_options
    value.
    That's great to know with the CLI :-)

    I've ajusted the path to utilities to get it working with my official GNU
    Mailman Debian Etch install

    /usr/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/config.pck

    Thanks

    Have a nice day
    --
    Matthieu HUTIN
    Ceux qui ne luttent pas contre le mal, finissent par le servir....
  • Mark Sapiro at Nov 2, 2008 at 1:57 pm

    Brad Knowles wrote:
    Matthieu HUTIN wrote:
    I can't get my digests to be sended in other than MIME although Plain Text
    is selected. Any way to get this solved ? I have access to the server if any
    CLI need to be used. I'm running 2.1.11
    Check the messages in the digest, as well as the digest header and
    footer. I'm willing to bet that there is a character set or
    content-transfer-encoding difference somewhere in there, which is
    forcing the MIME formatting.

    I don't think that would do it. Those things should be recoded or
    scrubbed.

    When you say "Plain Text is selected", do you mean "When receiving
    digests, which format is default" on the admin Digest options page? If
    so, that only controls the default setting for new list members. Each
    existing member has an individual setting for "Get MIME or Plain Text
    Digests" on the user options page which reflected by the presence or
    absence of a check in the box in the "plain" column on the admin
    Membership List pages.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <mark at msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Matthieu HUTIN at Nov 5, 2008 at 5:40 pm

    02/11/08 14:57 : ??Mark Sapiro?? a ?crit?:

    I can't get my digests to be sended in other than MIME although Plain Text
    is selected. Any way to get this solved ? I have access to the server if any
    CLI need to be used. I'm running 2.1.11
    Check the messages in the digest, as well as the digest header and
    footer. I'm willing to bet that there is a character set or
    content-transfer-encoding difference somewhere in there, which is
    forcing the MIME formatting.

    I don't think that would do it. Those things should be recoded or
    scrubbed.

    When you say "Plain Text is selected", do you mean "When receiving
    digests, which format is default" on the admin Digest options page? If
    so, that only controls the default setting for new list members. Each
    existing member has an individual setting for "Get MIME or Plain Text
    Digests" on the user options page which reflected by the presence or
    absence of a check in the box in the "plain" column on the admin
    Membership List pages.
    Thansk for answering Mark

    As I just answered to Brad, it is now working correctly, but yes, both
    server side and end users where using Plain Text in the Options.

    Best
    --
    Matthieu HUTIN
    Ceux qui ne luttent pas contre le mal, finissent par le servir....

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postedNov 1, '08 at 2:10p
activeNov 6, '08 at 9:39a
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