FAQ
Howdy all,

I've been stumped with a problem with my installation of mailman
2.1.9. OS is BSD, and MTA is sendmail if that matters.

Problem is that if I send mail to a list, it never gets sent out

I can see the mail come through in maillog just fine. It shows up as
posted with success in post. It shows up in smtp as sent to the
number of recipients. I even see an outgoing message in maillog. But
no one gets it. I really don't think it is a spam thing because the
lists are huge and no one is getting them.

Yet if I send messages to people directly from the server (not using
mailman), everything gets through in a jiffy. Any light that could be
shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

kyle

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  • Brad Knowles at Aug 30, 2007 at 6:41 pm
    You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What, precisely is
    actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?

    Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
    another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
    causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?

    --
    Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

    Sent from my iPhone
    On Aug 30, 2007, at 1:31 PM, "Kyle Banerjee" wrote:

    Howdy all,

    I've been stumped with a problem with my installation of mailman
    2.1.9. OS is BSD, and MTA is sendmail if that matters.

    Problem is that if I send mail to a list, it never gets sent out

    I can see the mail come through in maillog just fine. It shows up as
    posted with success in post. It shows up in smtp as sent to the
    number of recipients. I even see an outgoing message in maillog. But
    no one gets it. I really don't think it is a spam thing because the
    lists are huge and no one is getting them.

    Yet if I send messages to people directly from the server (not using
    mailman), everything gets through in a jiffy. Any light that could be
    shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

    kyle
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Mailman-Users mailing list
    Mailman-Users at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
    Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
    Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
    Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org

    Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
  • Kyle Banerjee at Aug 30, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What, precisely is
    actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?

    Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
    another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
    causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?
    There are a number of lists, one has about 5K people on it. If I send
    a message to one that has only 5 people on it, I see something like:

    Aug 30 18:25:00 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed at colorado.edu>, delay�:00:13, xdelay�:00:03,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=mx15.colorado.edu. [128.138.128.115],
    dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as D091E692112)
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed2 at mail.lib.msu.edu>, delay�:00:15, xdelay�:00:02,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61],
    dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: STARTTLS=client,
    relay=relay.oregonstate.edu., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verifyúIL,
    cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits%6/256
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed3 at oregonstate.edu>, delay�:00:15, xdelay�:00:00,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=relay.oregonstate.edu.
    [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 90B39410794)
    Aug 30 18:25:03 innopacusers sm-mta[32960]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
    from=<webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org>, size445, class=-30,
    nrcpts=1, msgid=<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com>,
    proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
    Aug 30 18:25:04 innopacusers sm-mta[32976]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
    to=<name.removed4 at gmail.com>, delay�:00:01, xdelay�:00:01,
    mailer=esmtp, pri•445, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
    [64.233.167.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1188498304 u62si752714pyb)

    "webguru" is the name of this test list. The strange thing is that
    we've been running for years with no problems. Yesterday, I was
    getting errors with invalid character sets that seemed to be gumming
    things up. I messed around with it to no avail, so I upgraded to the
    latest version. I cleared out everything in process just to make sure
    that nothing that hadn't been processed wasn't blocking everything
    else.

    When the problem was first reported, the logs looked OK to me, so I
    told them there was a a delivery problem at their end. Then calls and
    emails started pouring in, and I realized that I hadn't received any
    messages even though I use gmail with no filters and I usually get
    dozens of messages from one of our lists each day. I checked to make
    sure we're not blacklisted and that seemed OK too. The weird thing is
    that I can send email from the command line no problem, and
    administrative messages (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) seem to get
    through just fine.

    kyle
  • Kyle Banerjee at Aug 30, 2007 at 9:14 pm
    Further clarification on this problem.

    It turns out that not everything is showing in the post log. After a
    certain amount of time, the messages that are not getting through
    appear in qfiles/out/*.pck

    I turned debug=1 in SMTPDirect.py but haven't uncovered anything.

    This is nuts, I'm willing to entertain even crazy speculation at this point.

    kyle
    On 8/30/07, Kyle Banerjee wrote:
    You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What, precisely is
    actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?

    Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
    another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
    causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?
    There are a number of lists, one has about 5K people on it. If I send
    a message to one that has only 5 people on it, I see something like:

    Aug 30 18:25:00 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed at colorado.edu>, delay�:00:13, xdelay�:00:03,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=mx15.colorado.edu. [128.138.128.115],
    dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as D091E692112)
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed2 at mail.lib.msu.edu>, delay�:00:15, xdelay�:00:02,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61],
    dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: STARTTLS=client,
    relay=relay.oregonstate.edu., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verifyúIL,
    cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits%6/256
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed3 at oregonstate.edu>, delay�:00:15, xdelay�:00:00,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=relay.oregonstate.edu.
    [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 90B39410794)
    Aug 30 18:25:03 innopacusers sm-mta[32960]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
    from=<webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org>, size445, class=-30,
    nrcpts=1, msgid=<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com>,
    proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
    Aug 30 18:25:04 innopacusers sm-mta[32976]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
    to=<name.removed4 at gmail.com>, delay�:00:01, xdelay�:00:01,
    mailer=esmtp, pri•445, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
    [64.233.167.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1188498304 u62si752714pyb)

    "webguru" is the name of this test list. The strange thing is that
    we've been running for years with no problems. Yesterday, I was
    getting errors with invalid character sets that seemed to be gumming
    things up. I messed around with it to no avail, so I upgraded to the
    latest version. I cleared out everything in process just to make sure
    that nothing that hadn't been processed wasn't blocking everything
    else.

    When the problem was first reported, the logs looked OK to me, so I
    told them there was a a delivery problem at their end. Then calls and
    emails started pouring in, and I realized that I hadn't received any
    messages even though I use gmail with no filters and I usually get
    dozens of messages from one of our lists each day. I checked to make
    sure we're not blacklisted and that seemed OK too. The weird thing is
    that I can send email from the command line no problem, and
    administrative messages (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) seem to get
    through just fine.

    kyle

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Kyle Banerjee
    Digital Services Program Manager
    Orbis Cascade Alliance
    banerjek at uoregon.edu / 541.359.9599
  • Brad Knowles at Aug 30, 2007 at 10:23 pm
    Check your Mailman "error" log file. I'm guessing that there is one or
    more malformed messages in the Mailman queue that is hosing things up.

    Problem is, the real problem is usually before the errors start
    showing up in the logs. Start with what shows up in the logs and work
    backwards.

    I don't recall the exact FAQ number or URL, but search the FAQ wizard
    for "troubleshooting".

    --
    Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

    Sent from my iPhone
    On Aug 30, 2007, at 4:14 PM, "Kyle Banerjee" wrote:

    Further clarification on this problem.

    It turns out that not everything is showing in the post log. After a
    certain amount of time, the messages that are not getting through
    appear in qfiles/out/*.pck

    I turned debug=1 in SMTPDirect.py but haven't uncovered anything.

    This is nuts, I'm willing to entertain even crazy speculation at
    this point.

    kyle
    On 8/30/07, Kyle Banerjee wrote:
    You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What,
    precisely is
    actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?

    Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
    another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
    causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?
    There are a number of lists, one has about 5K people on it. If I send
    a message to one that has only 5 people on it, I see something like:

    Aug 30 18:25:00 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed at colorado.edu>, delay�:00:13, xdelay�:00:03,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=mx15.colorado.edu. [128.138.128.115],
    dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as D091E692112)
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed2 at mail.lib.msu.edu>, delay�:00:15, xdelay�:00:02,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu.
    [35.8.223.61],
    dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: STARTTLS=client,
    relay=relay.oregonstate.edu., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verifyúIL,
    cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits%6/256
    Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
    to=<name.removed3 at oregonstate.edu>, delay�:00:15, xdelay�:00:00,
    mailer=esmtp, pri5445, relay=relay.oregonstate.edu.
    [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 90B39410794)
    Aug 30 18:25:03 innopacusers sm-mta[32960]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
    from=<webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org>, size445, class=-30,
    nrcpts=1, msgid=<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com
    ,
    proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
    Aug 30 18:25:04 innopacusers sm-mta[32976]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
    to=<name.removed4 at gmail.com>, delay�:00:01, xdelay�:00:01,
    mailer=esmtp, pri•445, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
    [64.233.167.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1188498304 u62si752714pyb)

    "webguru" is the name of this test list. The strange thing is that
    we've been running for years with no problems. Yesterday, I was
    getting errors with invalid character sets that seemed to be gumming
    things up. I messed around with it to no avail, so I upgraded to the
    latest version. I cleared out everything in process just to make sure
    that nothing that hadn't been processed wasn't blocking everything
    else.

    When the problem was first reported, the logs looked OK to me, so I
    told them there was a a delivery problem at their end. Then calls and
    emails started pouring in, and I realized that I hadn't received any
    messages even though I use gmail with no filters and I usually get
    dozens of messages from one of our lists each day. I checked to make
    sure we're not blacklisted and that seemed OK too. The weird thing is
    that I can send email from the command line no problem, and
    administrative messages (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) seem to get
    through just fine.

    kyle

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Kyle Banerjee
    Digital Services Program Manager
    Orbis Cascade Alliance
    banerjek at uoregon.edu / 541.359.9599
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Mailman-Users mailing list
    Mailman-Users at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
    Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
    Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
    Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org

    Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;fileúq01.027.htp
  • Mark Sapiro at Aug 31, 2007 at 12:26 am

    Kyle Banerjee wrote:
    Further clarification on this problem.

    It turns out that not everything is showing in the post log. After a
    certain amount of time, the messages that are not getting through
    appear in qfiles/out/*.pck

    How much time? They should appear almost immediately in qfiles/out/
    unless they've been spending time in qfiles/retry/.

    What is in Mailman's smtp-failure log? What does Mailman's smtp log
    look like? does it show the symptom of a backlogged qfiles/out/ queue?
    Namely, many successive entries being timestamped at intervals equal
    to the processing time of the entry.

    I turned debug=1 in SMTPDirect.py but haven't uncovered anything.

    What 'debug=1'? If you mean you just set

    debug=1

    in SMTPDirect.py, this will do nothing. The only additional debugging
    switch that applies to SMTPDirect.py is described at
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>,
    and be sure to note that this won't work and will only cause
    additional problems if your Python version is less than 2.4.

    This is nuts, I'm willing to entertain even crazy speculation at this point.

    If the messages that aren't being delivered are remaining in Mailman's
    qfiles/retry and qfiles/out queues, report what you find in Mailman's
    smtp-failure (and as Brad suggested, error) logs and what you find
    from examination of Mailman's smtp log.

    If the messages are accepted by sendmail and then fail to be delivered,
    that part at least is a sendmail issue.

    Also see
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Mark Sapiro at Aug 31, 2007 at 1:28 am

    Mark Sapiro wrote:
    How much time? They should appear almost immediately in qfiles/out/
    unless they've been spending time in qfiles/retry/.

    In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
    empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
    it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
    *.bak file while it is being processed by
    OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)

    If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
    backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
    there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Kyle Banerjee at Aug 31, 2007 at 3:10 am
    Thanks for the advice -- I believe your suggestion that the issue is
    related to OutgoingRunner is most likely correct, but I'm not out of
    the woods yet.
    How much time? They should appear almost immediately in qfiles/out/
    unless they've been spending time in qfiles/retry/.
    This was probably the wrong thing to do, but out of frustration, I
    blasted out my installation, put in a clean install, and recovered the
    list itself from backup using instructions at
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&fileúq03.004.htp

    This has had the effect of clearing logs and removing ineffective and
    possibly harmful changes I made. I'm still having problems delivering
    mail.

    I've sent a few messages to the lists over the past couple hours. Here
    is what I'm seeing:

    1) The files are appearing almost immediately in qfiles/out/ where
    they seem to stay. Nothing is in retry or the other qfiles
    directories.

    2) Even a couple hours later, nothing shows up in post, smtp, or
    smtp-failure. However, someone who belonged to one of the lists sent
    one through. I found the entry

    Aug 31 02:18:53 2007 (40546)
    <01F67337-E566-4AA4-B684-01C9E2F3F9FB at mac.com> smtp to innopac for
    2014 recips, completed in 11231.212 seconds

    The amount of time for the transaction seems insane. Load is
    practically nonexistent.

    3) When I send a message to the list, maillog makes it look like
    everything happened. For example, if I send it to the list with 4
    people in it

    Aug 31 02:47:54 innopacusers sm-mta[52010]: l7V2lmww052010:
    from=<namedeleted at gmail.com>, sizeX88, class=0, nrcpts=1,
    msgid=<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com>,
    proto=ESMTP, daemon
    =MTA-v4, relay=wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]
    Aug 31 02:48:01 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted2 at bus.umich.edu, delay�:00:07, xdelay�:00:02,
    mailer=esmtp, pri6118, relay=bus-ex02.bus.umich.edu.
    [141.211.239.195], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 31 02:48:02 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted3 at Colorado.edu , delay�:00:08
    , xdelay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118, relay=mx10.colorado.edu.
    [128.138.128.110], dsn=2.0.0, statSent (Ok: queued as 31AB7C4A4B0)
    Aug 31 02:48:03 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted4 at gmail.com, delay�:00:09, x
    delay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [64.233.167.27], dsn=2.0.0,
    stat=Sent (OK 1188528483 a70si1963649pye)
    Aug 31 02:48:04 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=fleckn at mail.lib.msu.edu, delay�:00:10, x
    delay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 31 02:48:22 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]:
    l7V2lmww052010:to=namedeleted5 at oregonstate.edu, delay�:00:28,
    xdelay�:00:18, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=relay.oregonstate.edu. [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
    (Ok: queued as 5D01C410AE6)

    The handoff to mailman shows up and it appears in /qfiles/out
    Aug 31 02:40:58 innopacusers sm-mta[51781]: l7V2ep7j051777:
    to="|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
    webguru" , ctladdr=(26/0), delay�:00:01,
    xdelay�:
    00:01, mailer=prog, pri1857, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
    In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
    empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
    it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
    *.bak file while it is being processed by
    OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)

    If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
    backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
    there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.
    This sounds like my problem. OutgoingRunner is running

    mailman 40546 0.0 1.7 19204 17236 ?? S 11:11PM 0:01.49
    /usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
    --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s

    I can easily buy that there's a config issue, but the strange thing is
    that we were functional for years and all of a sudden quit working
    (having said that, we have a hosted server, so it's conceivable
    something was done to our machine -- it's happened before).

    I don't understand how OutgoingRunner works -- any suggestions for
    directions for me to explore in seeing if my sendmail or mailman
    config is screwing things up? Thanks,

    kyle
  • Mark Sapiro at Aug 31, 2007 at 3:57 am

    Kyle Banerjee wrote:
    I've sent a few messages to the lists over the past couple hours. Here
    is what I'm seeing:

    1) The files are appearing almost immediately in qfiles/out/ where
    they seem to stay. Nothing is in retry or the other qfiles
    directories.

    2) Even a couple hours later, nothing shows up in post, smtp, or
    smtp-failure. However, someone who belonged to one of the lists sent
    one through. I found the entry

    Aug 31 02:18:53 2007 (40546)
    <01F67337-E566-4AA4-B684-01C9E2F3F9FB at mac.com> smtp to innopac for
    2014 recips, completed in 11231.212 seconds

    The amount of time for the transaction seems insane. Load is
    practically nonexistent.

    Your SMTP delivery to sendmail is incredibly slow. This is your entire
    problem. Your out queue is hoplessly backlogged due to the time it is
    taking to process SMTP. You will never catch up.

    You need to make changes in sendmail. See
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>,
    particularly 4.11 and 6.3, and make sure you are not doing DNS
    verifies on mail from Mailman.

    3) When I send a message to the list, maillog makes it look like
    everything happened. For example, if I send it to the list with 4
    people in it

    Aug 31 02:47:54 innopacusers sm-mta[52010]: l7V2lmww052010:
    from=<namedeleted at gmail.com>, sizeX88, class=0, nrcpts=1,
    msgid=<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com>,
    proto=ESMTP, daemon
    =MTA-v4, relay=wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]

    This doesn't look like a message from Mailman. A message from a mailman
    list will normally be from listname-bounces at example.com
    (webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org in this case). And, if this came
    from Mailman, there would be entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs.

    Aug 31 02:48:01 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted2 at bus.umich.edu, delay�:00:07, xdelay�:00:02,
    mailer=esmtp, pri6118, relay=bus-ex02.bus.umich.edu.
    [141.211.239.195], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 31 02:48:02 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted3 at Colorado.edu , delay�:00:08
    , xdelay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118, relay=mx10.colorado.edu.
    [128.138.128.110], dsn=2.0.0, stat>Sent (Ok: queued as 31AB7C4A4B0)
    Aug 31 02:48:03 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted4 at gmail.com, delay�:00:09, x
    delay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [64.233.167.27], dsn=2.0.0,
    stat=Sent (OK 1188528483 a70si1963649pye)
    Aug 31 02:48:04 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=fleckn at mail.lib.msu.edu, delay�:00:10, x
    delay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 31 02:48:22 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]:
    l7V2lmww052010:to=namedeleted5 at oregonstate.edu, delay�:00:28,
    xdelay�:00:18, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=relay.oregonstate.edu. [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
    (Ok: queued as 5D01C410AE6)

    The handoff to mailman shows up and it appears in /qfiles/out
    Aug 31 02:40:58 innopacusers sm-mta[51781]: l7V2ep7j051777:
    to="|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
    webguru" , ctladdr=(26/0), delay�:00:01,
    xdelay�:
    00:01, mailer=prog, pri1857, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

    Mailman can do content filtering with I think more control than
    stripmime.pl

    In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
    empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
    it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
    *.bak file while it is being processed by
    OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)

    If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
    backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
    there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.
    This sounds like my problem. OutgoingRunner is running

    mailman 40546 0.0 1.7 19204 17236 ?? S 11:11PM 0:01.49
    /usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
    --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s

    I can easily buy that there's a config issue, but the strange thing is
    that we were functional for years and all of a sudden quit working

    What Mailman version is this?

    (having said that, we have a hosted server, so it's conceivable
    something was done to our machine -- it's happened before).

    I don't understand how OutgoingRunner works -- any suggestions for
    directions for me to explore in seeing if my sendmail or mailman
    config is screwing things up? Thanks,

    OutgoingRunner picks up the oldest qfiles/out/*.pck file, gets the
    message and metadata from it and passes them to SMTPDirect.py for
    processing. When SMTPDirect.py returns, it picks up the next entry and
    repeats until there are no entries left. Then it sleeps for
    QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME (default 1 second) and looks for any new entries.

    That's the basic flow assuming no errors or exceptions.

    See the above FAQ articles.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Kyle Banerjee at Aug 31, 2007 at 5:29 am

    Your SMTP delivery to sendmail is incredibly slow. This is your entire
    problem. Your out queue is hoplessly backlogged due to the time it is
    taking to process SMTP. You will never catch up.

    You need to make changes in sendmail. See
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>,
    particularly 4.11 and 6.3, and make sure you are not doing DNS
    verifies on mail from Mailman.
    Thanks for the tip -- this sounds like it's most likely what I need to
    fix. I'll read up and see if I can't nail this.
    This doesn't look like a message from Mailman. A message from a mailman
    list will normally be from listname-bounces at example.com
    (webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org in this case). And, if this came
    from Mailman, there would be entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs.
    Hmmm... It just so happens that this listname coincides with a former
    alias that forwarded messages to the same people. The aliases file
    looks OK, but I wonder if sendmail is getting the info from someplace
    else. I need to test this process with a list that doesn't have this
    issue.
    What Mailman version is this? 2.1.9
    OutgoingRunner picks up the oldest qfiles/out/*.pck file, gets the
    message and metadata from it and passes them to SMTPDirect.py for
    processing. When SMTPDirect.py returns, it picks up the next entry and
    repeats until there are no entries left. Then it sleeps for
    QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME (default 1 second) and looks for any new entries.

    That's the basic flow assuming no errors or exceptions.
    Thanks for the info -- this helps me understand what's going on better.

    kyle
  • Kyle Banerjee at Sep 1, 2007 at 5:11 pm
    Just in case someone else experiences insanely slow delivery, DNS
    verifies on mail from mailman turned out to be the problem in my case.
    I turned that off and made sure I could relay from localhost, and
    everything works great.

    kyle
    On 8/30/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:
    Kyle Banerjee wrote:
    I've sent a few messages to the lists over the past couple hours. Here
    is what I'm seeing:

    1) The files are appearing almost immediately in qfiles/out/ where
    they seem to stay. Nothing is in retry or the other qfiles
    directories.

    2) Even a couple hours later, nothing shows up in post, smtp, or
    smtp-failure. However, someone who belonged to one of the lists sent
    one through. I found the entry

    Aug 31 02:18:53 2007 (40546)
    <01F67337-E566-4AA4-B684-01C9E2F3F9FB at mac.com> smtp to innopac for
    2014 recips, completed in 11231.212 seconds

    The amount of time for the transaction seems insane. Load is
    practically nonexistent.

    Your SMTP delivery to sendmail is incredibly slow. This is your entire
    problem. Your out queue is hoplessly backlogged due to the time it is
    taking to process SMTP. You will never catch up.

    You need to make changes in sendmail. See
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>,
    particularly 4.11 and 6.3, and make sure you are not doing DNS
    verifies on mail from Mailman.

    3) When I send a message to the list, maillog makes it look like
    everything happened. For example, if I send it to the list with 4
    people in it

    Aug 31 02:47:54 innopacusers sm-mta[52010]: l7V2lmww052010:
    from=<namedeleted at gmail.com>, sizeX88, class=0, nrcpts=1,
    msgid=<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com>,
    proto=ESMTP, daemon
    =MTA-v4, relay=wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]

    This doesn't look like a message from Mailman. A message from a mailman
    list will normally be from listname-bounces at example.com
    (webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org in this case). And, if this came
    from Mailman, there would be entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs.

    Aug 31 02:48:01 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted2 at bus.umich.edu, delay�:00:07, xdelay�:00:02,
    mailer=esmtp, pri6118, relay=bus-ex02.bus.umich.edu.
    [141.211.239.195], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 31 02:48:02 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted3 at Colorado.edu , delay�:00:08
    , xdelay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118, relay=mx10.colorado.edu.
    [128.138.128.110], dsn=2.0.0, stat> >Sent (Ok: queued as 31AB7C4A4B0)
    Aug 31 02:48:03 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=namedeleted4 at gmail.com, delay�:00:09, x
    delay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [64.233.167.27], dsn=2.0.0,
    stat=Sent (OK 1188528483 a70si1963649pye)
    Aug 31 02:48:04 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
    to=fleckn at mail.lib.msu.edu, delay�:00:10, x
    delay�:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
    <47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
    mail for delivery)
    Aug 31 02:48:22 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]:
    l7V2lmww052010:to=namedeleted5 at oregonstate.edu, delay�:00:28,
    xdelay�:00:18, mailer=esmtp, pri6118,
    relay=relay.oregonstate.edu. [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
    (Ok: queued as 5D01C410AE6)

    The handoff to mailman shows up and it appears in /qfiles/out
    Aug 31 02:40:58 innopacusers sm-mta[51781]: l7V2ep7j051777:
    to="|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
    webguru" , ctladdr=(26/0), delay�:00:01,
    xdelay�:
    00:01, mailer=prog, pri1857, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

    Mailman can do content filtering with I think more control than
    stripmime.pl

    In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
    empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
    it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
    *.bak file while it is being processed by
    OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)

    If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
    backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
    there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.
    This sounds like my problem. OutgoingRunner is running

    mailman 40546 0.0 1.7 19204 17236 ?? S 11:11PM 0:01.49
    /usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
    --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s

    I can easily buy that there's a config issue, but the strange thing is
    that we were functional for years and all of a sudden quit working

    What Mailman version is this?

    (having said that, we have a hosted server, so it's conceivable
    something was done to our machine -- it's happened before).

    I don't understand how OutgoingRunner works -- any suggestions for
    directions for me to explore in seeing if my sendmail or mailman
    config is screwing things up? Thanks,

    OutgoingRunner picks up the oldest qfiles/out/*.pck file, gets the
    message and metadata from it and passes them to SMTPDirect.py for
    processing. When SMTPDirect.py returns, it picks up the next entry and
    repeats until there are no entries left. Then it sleeps for
    QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME (default 1 second) and looks for any new entries.

    That's the basic flow assuming no errors or exceptions.

    See the above FAQ articles.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

    --
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Kyle Banerjee
    Digital Services Program Manager
    Orbis Cascade Alliance
    banerjek at uoregon.edu / 541.359.9599

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postedAug 30, '07 at 6:31p
activeSep 1, '07 at 5:11p
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