[Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for each list?

No. There are people running mailman with thousands of people on a list. I
think there is some information on this in FAQ.
Other reasons? Misconfiguration by them; resource limits they've applied.
Who knows other than them.

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>

As far as the Mailman code is concerned, there is no hard limit to
the number of subscribers you can have. There are performance issues
that you are more likely to run into as you try to scale into the
hundreds of thousands of subscribers, but there is no hard limit
imposed by our code.

To get more of an idea of what is possible with Mailman, see FAQ 1.15
at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.
I strongly suspect that they are doing rate-limiting on their mail
servers, which is causing problems for Mailman. FAQ 4.51 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp>
discusses the issue of Mailman and rate-limiting, although it's not
directly related to the problem you're having.
That's a total load of bull. Some of the largest mailing lists and
mailing list servers in the world are running Mailman. I've been a
professional Unix system administrator for almost twenty years, and
I've been specializing in Internet e-mail administration for about
fifteen years, including two years as the Sr. Internet Mail
Administrator for America Online. Over the years, I've worked with
many different mailing list managers. Until today, I had never heard
of this "phplist" program.

I guarantee you that whatever this "phplist" program is, they don't
have the number of installations we do, or the scale.
Well, you could first have them read each and every entry in the
Mailman FAQ Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and
then have them tell you why they are not properly supporting the
product that they have installed and made available to you.

Alternatively, you could find another provider that is more
responsive to your requirements. See FAQ 1.17 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>
for links to lists of alternative providers you may want to take a
look at.

Agreed.

First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a
discussion list, phplist is not an option.

Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many
recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of
conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in
the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because
of any inherent superiority of phplist.

Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special
email list provider. Is there such a thing?

And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org

I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have
unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.

Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to
this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a
problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:29 AM
To: Brad Knowles; wittygal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Brad Knowles wrote:

Agreed.

First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a
discussion list, phplist is not an option.

Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many
recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of
conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in
the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because
of any inherent superiority of phplist.

It is possible that Bluehost is limiting the amount of messages that are
sent out from your account per hour. This is called smtp throttling and it
is a common practice amount hosting companies. Another issue is that your
mailing lists could simply be on a very busy server that is not able to keep
up with mail delivery. What is troubling is the answer you received from
Bluehost which reveals their ignorance about mailman.

" Then they suggested I find a special
email list provider. Is there such a thing?"

Yes there is. We offer a special service for those who run mailman mailing
lists. You can read more about our service at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD - Executive Officer


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
wittygal
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:24 PM
To: 'Mark Sapiro'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special
email list provider. Is there such a thing?

And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org

I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have
unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.

Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to
this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a
problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:29 AM
To: Brad Knowles; wittygal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Brad Knowles wrote:

Agreed.

First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a
discussion list, phplist is not an option.

Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many
recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of
conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in
the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because
of any inherent superiority of phplist.

Sure. Some Mailman-specific hosting groups are listed in FAQ 1.17 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>,
and there are other groups there that do more general hosting but
which also provide Mailman hosting as part of their package of
services.
FAQ 1.17 has a partial list of Mailman-specific hosting sites, but
I'm sure there are other sites that have similar lists of providers.
Funny thing about that word "unlimited". It doesn't actually mean
"unlimited" anymore. Now it means:

We don't advertise any limits because we want to get your business
at any cost, but as soon as you exceed the low limits we secretly
place on you, we'll kick your sorry butt out the door as quickly
as we possibly can.

It's kind of like that secret no-fly list that no one can ever tell
you whether or not you're on the list or how you got on it or how you
can get off it, but they won't let you fly if your name is there.
Feel free to quote any of my messages, and if they have any further
questions I'll be more than happy to whop them upside the head with a
clue-by-four.

I am actually using bluehost as well (recently started)
Haven't reached a limit for now - I was having major delays with messages
being sent - found out it was b/c I was sharing a server with mulitple other
users so we would all be in 'que' waiting for a msg to be sent.

So, a thought I had - is it a 'crazy' idea to set up my own webserver and
install mailman on it? Or is that a bit too much.

Not sure if anyone out there has done that.

---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Why is that crazy?

Lots of us have done just that. I run my lists on a server owned by a
friend and have pretty much free reign to do whatever I want.

If you can justify the costs of doing so, it is a good solution. For
people like me who do this both as a hobby and for a non-profit
organization, the trick is finding a place to host that server that
won't cost an arm and a leg.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Other than my time of installing it and configuring it, I have no costs. I
run it on my iMac that sits at home. My DSL provider has no problems with
servers. Volume is low enough that my 384Kbps upstream is adequate. Until
a few months ago, that iMac was also my main desktop machine. While it's
now a dedicated server, there's nothing about Mailman and whatever MTA you
use that requires them to be on a dedicated server - they'll be quite
happy to chug along in the background.

-- Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

Larry Stone sent the message below at 14:09 8/29/2007:
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The problem is that not everyone has an ISP that is willing to allow
a user to run an SMTP server or web server on a home machine.

The server my friend owns that hosts my stuff is on a Cox business
account with a static IP. Cox is one of many ISPs that won't allow
their subscribers to run such a server on a standard home broadband
connection, they will only allow such traffic on a business account.

As with everything, your mileage will vary.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No-ip.com will relay mail on an alt port. I;ve been running a MS SBS
from my home on Cox home cable for about 2 years. Full exchange and
remote access using no-ip.com to fix the DHCP issue and alt port SMTP.
Cant beat the price/speed of a home account ;-) I think I pay about 20 a
year for no-ip I cant remember.

Thanks,
Yan Herndon
Director of Technology
Joint Technologies LTD
949-361-1158


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+yan=jointtech.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+yan=jointtech.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Dragon
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:43 PM
To: mailman mailing list
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Larry Stone sent the message below at 14:09 8/29/2007:
a
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The problem is that not everyone has an ISP that is willing to allow
a user to run an SMTP server or web server on a home machine.

The server my friend owns that hosts my stuff is on a Cox business
account with a static IP. Cox is one of many ISPs that won't allow
their subscribers to run such a server on a standard home broadband
connection, they will only allow such traffic on a business account.

As with everything, your mileage will vary.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------------------------------
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That is not a crazy idea. In fact, if you did that, you would be
installing and using Mailman in the manner for which it was actually
originally designed.
In effect, that's what we are doing for python.org and all the other
mailing lists hosted here, including this one. The folks at
XS4ALL.nl provide the hardware and hands-on operations support, and a
team of volunteers provides the application level installation,
configuration, monitoring, and management. You'd just be operating
on a somewhat smaller scale than we do.

DreamHost gives away their best account to 501(c)(3) groups and supports
MailMan just fine.

- -- Brandon

Please feel free to quote anything I've posted in this thread or to
provide links to the list archives, and thanks for asking.

Wittygal:

Finally one I CAN assist with -:) !

I am 1 of their FIRST premium account and what you need is a Level 3 Tech and Stephen Trelz has been the one who assisted me. You also HAVE to ask to have you outgoing usage opened up from 50/hr (SOP) to 500/hr. It's the little things their FAQs don't say -:).

Also, the following is an excerpt from an announcement the Pres. sent out on 4/17/06 (spec. folder for ALL B.H. communications-:) ):
Regards...

Ed
www.justbrits.com

Of course, the current version is 2.1.9, and, IIRC the reason we
quickly moved up to that version was a security hole. And 2.1.10 is
pretty close to release.