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This is the best email I have yet to find describing how mail.python.org
proactive kills spam:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html

I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not be
implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

* Don't allow email from non-subscribers
* Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably a day
to a week)

Does mail.python.org do either or these things and/or is this generally a
good practice?

Any other suggestions?

-Matt

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  • Oleg D. at Aug 23, 2006 at 11:43 am

    This is the best email I have yet to find describing how mail.python.org
    proactive kills spam:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html

    I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not be
    implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

    * Don't allow email from non-subscribers
    * Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably a day
    to a week)

    Does mail.python.org do either or these things and/or is this generally a
    good practice?

    Any other suggestions?

    -Matt

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Mailman-Users mailing list
    Mailman-Users at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
    Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
    Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
    Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/perl%40ipchains.ru

    Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
    Good practice is to filter spam with MTA. Not with mailman even.

    --
    Oleg D.

    --
    don't believe every word people use to say, they might be wrong.
  • Matt England at Aug 23, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    At 8/23/2006 06:43 AM, Oleg D. wrote:

    This is the best email I have yet to find describing how mail.python.org
    proactive kills spam:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html

    I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not be
    implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

    * Don't allow email from non-subscribers
    * Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably a day
    to a week)

    Does mail.python.org do either or these things and/or is this generally a
    good practice?

    Any other suggestions?
    Good practice is to filter spam with MTA. Not with mailman even.
    --
    Oleg D.
    Is that not what this link (mentioned above) states?

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html

    -Matt
  • Oleg D. at Aug 23, 2006 at 12:49 pm

    Matt England wrote:
    At 8/23/2006 06:43 AM, Oleg D. wrote:

    This is the best email I have yet to find describing how
    mail.python.org proactive kills spam:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html

    I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not
    be implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

    * Don't allow email from non-subscribers
    * Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably
    a day to a week)

    Does mail.python.org do either or these things and/or is this
    generally a good practice?

    Any other suggestions?

    Good practice is to filter spam with MTA. Not with mailman even.
    --
    Oleg D.

    Is that not what this link (mentioned above) states?

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html

    -Matt
    Exactly that is. :-)

    --
    Oleg D.

    --
    don't believe every word people use to say, they might be wrong.
  • Brad Knowles at Aug 23, 2006 at 4:20 pm

    At 11:20 PM -0500 2006-08-22, Matt England wrote:

    This is the best email I have yet to find describing how mail.python.org
    proactive kills spam:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html
    I've also got an article that will be going up soon on the LOPSA.org
    website that explains, in great detail, what we're doing on
    python.org and where I think we should be going. If anyone is
    interested, I'll post the URL here when it's up.
    I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not be
    implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

    * Don't allow email from non-subscribers
    * Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably a day
    to a week)

    Does mail.python.org do either or these things and/or is this generally a
    good practice?
    You mean, do we do these things at the MTA level? No. The MTA has
    no clue as to who is a subscriber and who is not. These things could
    potentially be done at the Mailman level, however. Unfortunately,
    while you can configure Mailman to moderate (or reject) all posts
    from non-subscribers, I don't know of any way to configure it to do
    something like what you suggest based on the time of day.

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
    temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
    Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

    Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
  • Matt England at Aug 24, 2006 at 1:15 am

    At 8/23/2006 11:20 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:
    At 11:20 PM -0500 2006-08-22, Matt England wrote:

    This is the best email I have yet to find describing how mail.python.org
    proactive kills spam:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2006-March/332443.html
    I've also got an article that will be going up soon on the LOPSA.org
    website that explains, in great detail, what we're doing on
    python.org and where I think we should be going. If anyone is
    interested, I'll post the URL here when it's up.
    I'm very interested in this, and I know others that will be, too. Brad,
    can you post a followup to the list (and copy me directly if you can
    remember to do so) when this article appears on LOPSA.org?

    -Matt
    Dispersed Storage: http://cleversafe.org
  • Patrick Bogen at Aug 23, 2006 at 4:52 pm

    On 8/23/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
    I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not be
    implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

    * Don't allow email from non-subscribers
    * Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably a day
    to a week)

    Does mail.python.org do either or these things and/or is this generally a
    good practice?
    You mean, do we do these things at the MTA level? No. The MTA has
    no clue as to who is a subscriber and who is not. These things could
    potentially be done at the Mailman level, however. Unfortunately,
    while you can configure Mailman to moderate (or reject) all posts
    from non-subscribers, I don't know of any way to configure it to do
    something like what you suggest based on the time of day.
    I think he meant: auto-moderate new users, and unmoderate them after
    some amount of time has passed (e.g., after a day or after a week)

    --
    - Patrick Bogen
  • Matt England at Aug 23, 2006 at 7:14 pm

    At 8/23/2006 11:52 AM, Patrick Bogen wrote:
    I think he meant: auto-moderate new users, and unmoderate them after
    some amount of time has passed (e.g., after a day or after a week)
    Yes, that's correct.

    Can Mailman do the above (auto-moderate new users, and then automatically
    un-moderate them after a certain duration)?

    -Matt
  • Dragon at Aug 23, 2006 at 8:18 pm
    Matt England sent the message below at 12:14 8/23/2006:
    At 8/23/2006 11:52 AM, Patrick Bogen wrote:

    I think he meant: auto-moderate new users, and unmoderate them after
    some amount of time has passed (e.g., after a day or after a week)
    Yes, that's correct.

    Can Mailman do the above (auto-moderate new users, and then automatically
    un-moderate them after a certain duration)?
    ---------------- End original message. ---------------------

    It can do the first part but not the second.

    What you need is a script that will check the moderation setting,
    check the time since subscription, and reset the setting if the
    threshold is reached. You would then run that script as a cron job. I
    don't know if there is a way to find the time somebody subscribed, I
    don't think it is stored in the config.pck for the list but it may be
    in a log somewhere.

    Dragon

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • John W. Baxter at Aug 24, 2006 at 12:46 am

    On 8/23/06 1:18 PM, "Dragon" wrote:

    Matt England sent the message below at 12:14 8/23/2006:
    At 8/23/2006 11:52 AM, Patrick Bogen wrote:

    I think he meant: auto-moderate new users, and unmoderate them after
    some amount of time has passed (e.g., after a day or after a week)
    Yes, that's correct.

    Can Mailman do the above (auto-moderate new users, and then automatically
    un-moderate them after a certain duration)?
    ---------------- End original message. ---------------------

    It can do the first part but not the second.

    What you need is a script that will check the moderation setting,
    check the time since subscription, and reset the setting if the
    threshold is reached. You would then run that script as a cron job. I
    don't know if there is a way to find the time somebody subscribed, I
    don't think it is stored in the config.pck for the list but it may be
    in a log somewhere.
    Or, one could take the position that if a new subscriber turns out to be a
    lurker only, it doesn't matter whether she is still marked as moderated in a
    few months, or not. On the other hand, if she does post "properly", some
    moderator will decide to remove the moderation.

    I'm not sure automation is in order here in the general case.

    --John
  • Patrick Bogen at Aug 24, 2006 at 2:37 pm

    On 8/23/06, Dragon wrote:
    What you need is a script that will check the moderation setting,
    check the time since subscription, and reset the setting if the
    threshold is reached. You would then run that script as a cron job. I
    don't know if there is a way to find the time somebody subscribed, I
    don't think it is stored in the config.pck for the list but it may be
    in a log somewhere.
    An easier solution might be to just maintain a small DB for the cron
    script that knows the first time it's 'seen' a given member. You only
    need to store data about currently moderated members, so it should
    keep the DB relatively small.

    --
    - Patrick Bogen
  • Matt England at Aug 24, 2006 at 3:43 pm
    Re: Spam avoidance, revisited: best practices?

    Thanks all for the guidance and suggestions. It's good stuff. I'm always
    open to further ideas.

    -Matt
  • Brad Knowles at Aug 24, 2006 at 1:25 am

    At 11:52 AM -0500 2006-08-23, Patrick Bogen wrote:

    I think he meant: auto-moderate new users, and unmoderate them after
    some amount of time has passed (e.g., after a day or after a week)
    No, there is no built-in automated method of doing that. You could
    configure the list so that new subscribers are automatically
    moderated, and then set up a cron job to run a Python script so as to
    un-moderate users who have been subscribed for a while, but that
    would not be a standard part of the Mailman system.

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
    temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
    Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

    Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA. See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
  • Florian Weimer at Aug 23, 2006 at 5:17 pm

    * Matt England:

    I'm also considering adding these capabilities (which may or may not be
    implicit in the above description) to combat spam:

    * Don't allow email from non-subscribers
    * Moderate email from new subscribers some period of time (probably a day
    to a week)
    I've compiled a few instructions for setting up Exim and Mailman such
    that Exim rejects non-members at the SMTP level:

    <http://www.enyo.de/fw/software/exim/mailman-smtp-reject.html>

    Once you've got a way to query the subscriber list from Exim, you can
    configure different actions, of course (such as greylisting, if you
    like that).

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postedAug 23, '06 at 4:20a
activeAug 24, '06 at 3:43p
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