FAQ
I have set up a list that is used for announcements only. There is a list of
members, but only a few can post. No digests, just immediate delivery. We
have a mixed bag of recipient MUAs here, and although OE receives the mail
normally, Outlook users receive email with the header only in the body of
the email, and the real body and footer as attachments.

I have searched the archives/FAQ for a solution and may have found an
answer, but am not sure. The FAQ 4.39 seems to indicate no real solution
other than changing MUA, but in

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36757.html

the solution was a blank line in the footer. I have a header with a carriage
return that forms the blank line. Although this is easy to test to see if
this is really the problem, is there an easy way to create the separator
line to allow a blank line between the header and body other than asking
each poster to remember to put a blank line at the top of the body? I'm
still not sure why the footer is also an attachment.

I checked the sender's Outlook prefs and checked the "Send as plain text" in
his Contacts for this particular address, but that did not help. Can anyone
think of another place I may need to change something?

In the mean time, I will change the header and retest.

Thanks

Steve Campbell
campbell at cnpapers.com
Charleston Newspapers

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  • Mark Sapiro at May 17, 2006 at 3:38 pm

    Steve Campbell wrote:
    I have set up a list that is used for announcements only. There is a list of
    members, but only a few can post. No digests, just immediate delivery. We
    have a mixed bag of recipient MUAs here, and although OE receives the mail
    normally, Outlook users receive email with the header only in the body of
    the email, and the real body and footer as attachments.

    This indicates the list header and footer are being added as separate
    mime parts.

    I have searched the archives/FAQ for a solution and may have found an
    answer, but am not sure. The FAQ 4.39 seems to indicate no real solution
    other than changing MUA,

    Or sending a single part, plain text only post in the character set of
    the list language (us-ascii for English).

    but in

    http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36757.html

    the solution was a blank line in the footer.

    I think you're misinterpreting that post. I think she is saying her
    problem was caused by a footer which consisted of only a blank line
    and when she removed the footer completely, the problem went away.

    I have a header with a carriage
    return that forms the blank line. Although this is easy to test to see if
    this is really the problem, is there an easy way to create the separator
    line to allow a blank line between the header and body other than asking
    each poster to remember to put a blank line at the top of the body? I'm
    still not sure why the footer is also an attachment.

    The blank line is not the issue. If both a header and a footer are
    added, either both will be added inline if possible, or both will be
    added as separate MIME parts.

    I checked the sender's Outlook prefs and checked the "Send as plain text" in
    his Contacts for this particular address, but that did not help. Can anyone
    think of another place I may need to change something?

    That should be part of the solution. The other part (at least in
    Mailman 2.1.6 and above), is an attempt is made to convert everything
    to unicode and then back to the character set of the list (us-ascii
    for English). If this fails, an attempt is made to convert back to the
    character set of the original post, and if that fails, the header and
    footer are added as separate parts.

    So the bottom line is the original post must be a single part, plain
    text message, and in a declared character set that contains all the
    characters used in the message, header and footer.

    If you have set the poster's Outlook to send 'plain text only' to the
    list, I suspect the problem may be "smart quotes" or other characters
    in the message.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Steve Campbell at May 17, 2006 at 4:09 pm
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
    To: "Steve Campbell" <campbell at cnpapers.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Everything is an attachment

    Steve Campbell wrote:
    I have set up a list that is used for announcements only. There is a list
    of
    members, but only a few can post. No digests, just immediate delivery. We
    have a mixed bag of recipient MUAs here, and although OE receives the mail
    normally, Outlook users receive email with the header only in the body of
    the email, and the real body and footer as attachments.

    This indicates the list header and footer are being added as separate
    mime parts.

    I have searched the archives/FAQ for a solution and may have found an
    answer, but am not sure. The FAQ 4.39 seems to indicate no real solution
    other than changing MUA,

    Or sending a single part, plain text only post in the character set of
    the list language (us-ascii for English).

    but in

    http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36757.html

    the solution was a blank line in the footer.

    I think you're misinterpreting that post. I think she is saying her
    problem was caused by a footer which consisted of only a blank line
    and when she removed the footer completely, the problem went away.
    That's not hard for me to believe (that I'm misinterpretting, I mean).
    I have a header with a carriage
    return that forms the blank line. Although this is easy to test to see if
    this is really the problem, is there an easy way to create the separator
    line to allow a blank line between the header and body other than asking
    each poster to remember to put a blank line at the top of the body? I'm
    still not sure why the footer is also an attachment.

    The blank line is not the issue. If both a header and a footer are
    added, either both will be added inline if possible, or both will be
    added as separate MIME parts.
    I checked the sender's Outlook prefs and checked the "Send as plain text"
    in
    his Contacts for this particular address, but that did not help. Can
    anyone
    think of another place I may need to change something?

    That should be part of the solution. The other part (at least in
    Mailman 2.1.6 and above), is an attempt is made to convert everything
    to unicode and then back to the character set of the list (us-ascii
    for English). If this fails, an attempt is made to convert back to the
    character set of the original post, and if that fails, the header and
    footer are added as separate parts.
    Does anyone have RPMs for something 2.1.6 or greater for an RHEL 3/Tao 1.0
    system. I am running 2.1.5 as this seems to be the latest available from the
    normal yum repositories. Maybe this would help. Are there any gotchas for
    the upgrade if I find them?
    So the bottom line is the original post must be a single part, plain
    text message, and in a declared character set that contains all the
    characters used in the message, header and footer.

    If you have set the poster's Outlook to send 'plain text only' to the
    list, I suspect the problem may be "smart quotes" or other characters
    in the message.
    I'm still not finished testing, but I did get the sender to receive the
    header, body, and footer all in one message. He forgot to add the
    attachment. So the test was a little inconclusive.

    Thanks for the help

    Steve
    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Mark Sapiro at May 17, 2006 at 4:40 pm

    Steve Campbell wrote:
    I'm still not finished testing, but I did get the sender to receive the
    header, body, and footer all in one message. He forgot to add the
    attachment. So the test was a little inconclusive.

    Are you saying that the original posts to the list contain attachments
    that go to the list? If so, the list header and footer will always be
    added as separate MIME parts (attachments).

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Steve Campbell at May 17, 2006 at 4:55 pm
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
    To: "Steve Campbell" <campbell at cnpapers.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
    Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:40 PM
    Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Everything is an attachment

    Steve Campbell wrote:
    I'm still not finished testing, but I did get the sender to receive the
    header, body, and footer all in one message. He forgot to add the
    attachment. So the test was a little inconclusive.

    Are you saying that the original posts to the list contain attachments
    that go to the list? If so, the list header and footer will always be
    added as separate MIME parts (attachments).
    Exactly, yes that is correct.

    So there is no way, other than changing MUA (Outlook) for this to work, even
    with the newer version?

    BTW, I did find an RPM, but don't know it validity from:

    http://www.wesmo.com/rpm2html/x86/mailman-2.1.6-1.i386.html

    Is it worth the effort to upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6? I'd also really like
    to stay in the RPM arena on most everything. It appears to put everything in
    it's proper place.

    Thanks again.

    Steve

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Todd Zullinger at May 17, 2006 at 5:22 pm

    Steve Campbell wrote:
    BTW, I did find an RPM, but don't know it validity from:

    http://www.wesmo.com/rpm2html/x86/mailman-2.1.6-1.i386.html

    Is it worth the effort to upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6? I'd also
    really like to stay in the RPM arena on most everything. It appears
    to put everything in it's proper place.
    I prefer to keep my rpm-based systems using rpm packages as well, but
    it's very important to make sure that the packages are made well.
    When in doubt, download the source rpm and verify that it doesn't do
    anything malicious or just plain wrong (this goes for vendor packages
    sometimes, as was the case with the Red Hat packages for RH9).

    Looking at the changelog on that package it appears that Scott A.
    Hughes updated and made some modifications to the stock RHEL package.
    If I were you, I'd do the same thing and update to 2.1.8, testing
    carefully on a spare system before installing it on your production
    box(es).

    Building rpm packages isn't hard, but it does require some reading and
    practice. I'd recommend it if you manage multiple rpm-based systems,
    but YMMV. If that all seems like too much work, building mailman from
    source is very straightforward. You'll just have to adjust to the
    differences in installation paths if you're used to the patched rpm
    packages that use FHS locations for files.

    - --
    Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
    ======================================================================
    Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.
    -- Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel-Prize-winning economist.
  • Mark Sapiro at May 17, 2006 at 10:28 pm
    Steve Campbell wrote:

    Mark Sapiro wrote:
    Are you saying that the original posts to the list contain attachments
    that go to the list? If so, the list header and footer will always be
    added as separate MIME parts (attachments).
    Exactly, yes that is correct.

    So there is no way, other than changing MUA (Outlook) for this to work, even
    with the newer version?

    Well ..., it makes sense to me that if a post is multipart mixed, and
    the first sub part is text/plain, then this is a plain text post with
    attachments, and we could add the list header/footer to the text/plain
    part just as we do for single part, text/plain messages. I don't think
    this would be hard to do, but here are the issues if I do this.

    It would be done on the "trunk" for Mailman 2.2. You would have to get
    that version of Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py (just the one module)
    from the sourceforge.net site and put it in your installation.

    I'm not sure that this is "generally desireable". I think it is, but I
    would first ask this list and maybe Mailman-developers at python.org if
    anyone would have a problem with it.

    BTW, I did find an RPM, but don't know it validity from:

    http://www.wesmo.com/rpm2html/x86/mailman-2.1.6-1.i386.html

    Is it worth the effort to upgrade from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6?

    Todd has already given a better answer than I could to the RPM question.

    As far as it being worth it to upgrade to 2.1.6, there are a few
    security issues in 2.1.5 that are fixed in 2.1.6, so yes, I think it's
    worth it, but I would suggest trying to go all the way to 2.1.8 if
    possible. But none of this will change the header/footer issue for
    mail with attachments that go to the list.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Todd Zullinger at May 17, 2006 at 10:48 pm

    Mark Sapiro wrote:
    As far as it being worth it to upgrade to 2.1.6, there are a few
    security issues in 2.1.5 that are fixed in 2.1.6, so yes, I think
    it's worth it, but I would suggest trying to go all the way to 2.1.8
    if possible. But none of this will change the header/footer issue
    for mail with attachments that go to the list.
    FWIW, the Red Hat packages should have all of the security holes
    backported, so users of those packages should need to upgrade just to
    be secure. I don't run any RHEL systems though, so I can't say that
    I've looked over the packages carefully (and even if I had, not many
    people have a reason to take my word for the security issues being
    fixed :).

    I'd still agree that anyone running mailman in production should look
    into updating their installations to get the improvements that have
    come along since 2.1.5.

    - --
    Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
    ======================================================================
    Truth is like a well-known whore. Everybody knows her but it's
    embarrassing to meet her in the street.
    -- Wolfgang Borchert
  • Barry Finkel at May 19, 2006 at 8:22 pm

    I think you're misinterpreting that post. I think she is saying her
    problem was caused by a footer which consisted of only a blank line
    and when she removed the footer completely, the problem went away.
    That's not hard for me to believe (that I'm misinterpretting, I mean).
    Maybe the footer had a line that contained a non-ASCII and
    not-printable character? The line would look blank but would get
    stopped for the non us-ascii character.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Barry S. Finkel
    Computing and Information Systems Division
    Argonne National Laboratory Phone: +1 (630) 252-7277
    9700 South Cass Avenue Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
    Building 222, Room D209 Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
    Argonne, IL 60439-4828 IBMMAIL: I1004994

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