FAQ
Greetings -

I'm working on setting up Mailman at our site to replace an ageing system
based around another package. There's lots of 'firsts' involved: Mailman
and Exim (to date we've been a Sendmail-using site).

Things have been going very well, except I've just noticed that messages
I'm sending out to my test list are coming through with the header:

To: testlist at lists.york.ac.uk

However given I had set the list's 'Description' setting to "A test list" I
was instead expecting it to be:

To: A test list <testlist at lists.york.ac.uk>

I've checked that the description setting, which I made through the web
interface, has 'taken' by displaying the list's configuration using

bin/config-list -o - testlist

I've also restarted Mailman itself in case that was needed. (It didn't
help.)

I don't *think* I've done anything in Exim's setup that would strip the
real name part from the "To:" header -- I'm using a pretty standared
exim.conf plus the router and transport changes detailed in the Mailman
installation guide to direct incoming messages for the lists into Mailman's
scripts.

My test messages are being delivered out to the list OK ... it's just that
the "Yo:" header is missing the terse 'description' text.

Can anyone give me any clues/suggestions to try, please?

Cheers,
Mike Brudenell

--
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811 FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *

Search Discussions

  • Mark Sapiro at Apr 10, 2006 at 12:17 am

    Mike Brudenell wrote:
    Things have been going very well, except I've just noticed that messages
    I'm sending out to my test list are coming through with the header:

    To: testlist at lists.york.ac.uk

    Because that's how you addressed the message you sent.


    However given I had set the list's 'Description' setting to "A test list" I
    was instead expecting it to be:

    To: A test list <testlist at lists.york.ac.uk>

    If the list is anonymous, that's what the From: header will look like,
    but Mailman doesn't change the To: header unless the list is fully
    personalized in which case, the To: becomes the message recipient, not
    the list.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Mike Brudenell at Apr 10, 2006 at 10:40 am
    Greetings -

    --On 9 April 2006 17:17:37 -0700 Mark Sapiro wrote:
    Mike Brudenell wrote:
    Things have been going very well, except I've just noticed that messages
    I'm sending out to my test list are coming through with the header:

    To: testlist at lists.york.ac.uk
    Because that's how you addressed the message you sent.
    Hmmm, I think my mental model of Mailman's operation needs tweaking
    slightly...

    However given I had set the list's 'Description' setting to "A test
    list" I was instead expecting it to be:

    To: A test list <testlist at lists.york.ac.uk>
    If the list is anonymous, that's what the From: header will look like,
    but Mailman doesn't change the To: header unless the list is fully
    personalized in which case, the To: becomes the message recipient, not
    the list.
    We're currently using (a rather old version of) Lyris ListManager at
    present. As standard this deliberately rewrites the "To:" header of
    messages it distributes out to members of lists so that:

    a) Whatever was in the "To:" header is removed, then
    b) It is replaced with the list's short description followed by
    the list's address

    To be honest this is one of the things I hate about Lyris ListManager, as
    it makes it difficult when someone cross-posts their message to a number of
    lists: as standard a recipient only sees their copy as going "To:" the only
    list they're on, so any reply they make goes only to that one list, rather
    than all the lists the original was posted to.

    (Yes, it is possible to alter this, but the standard is this action.)

    I had, incorrectly by the sound of it, assumed Mailman worked the same way
    because:

    1) Mailman's built-in help text for the 'description' setting says:

    description (general): A terse phrase identifying this list.
    This description is used when the mailing list is listed with
    other mailing lists, or in headers, and so forth. It should be
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    as succinct as you can get it, while still identifying what the
    list is.

    OK, so the above might refer to the 'header' you can get Mailman to include
    within the message body up at the top, or it could mean the true headers of
    messages (ie, the To:/From:/Subject:/Received:/etc header lines).

    By itself it's a bit ambiguous, but then we also have:

    2) Section 2.1.1 of the Mailman Admin help pages at GNU's site
    <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node10.html>
    says this:

    description
    In the general list overview page, which shows you every
    available mailing list, each list is displayed with a short
    description. The contents of this variable is that description.
    Note that in emails from the mailing list, this description is
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    also used in the comment section of the To: address. This text
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    should be relatively short and no longer than one line.

    This seems pretty clear, and I also found the same information on other
    sites' help pages using Google (sadly I didn't note down the URLs for any
    of these).

    If Mailman doesn't rewrite the "To:" header as standard perhaps the
    information in (2) above relates to an earlier version? I did manage to
    find a thread suggesting a change in this area had been experimented with
    but then backed out, albeit back in 2002:

    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-August/021701.html>

    I'll just assume that Mailman (now) doesn't/shouldn't rewrite the "To:"
    header as standard and the Mailman Administration help page is out of date.

    Thanks for the help,
    Mike B-)

    --
    The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
    Tel:+44-1904-433811 FAX:+44-1904-433740

    * Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *
  • Mark Sapiro at Apr 10, 2006 at 3:47 pm

    Mike Brudenell wrote:
    I had, incorrectly by the sound of it, assumed Mailman worked the same way
    because:

    1) Mailman's built-in help text for the 'description' setting says:

    description (general): A terse phrase identifying this list.
    This description is used when the mailing list is listed with
    other mailing lists, or in headers, and so forth. It should be
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    as succinct as you can get it, while still identifying what the
    list is.

    OK, so the above might refer to the 'header' you can get Mailman to include
    within the message body up at the top, or it could mean the true headers of
    messages (ie, the To:/From:/Subject:/Received:/etc header lines).

    As I said in my original reply, when the list is anonymous, the
    'description' is included in the From: header, so the above, while
    misleading in your case, is correct in that the description is used in
    some cases in an actual message header.

    By itself it's a bit ambiguous, but then we also have:

    2) Section 2.1.1 of the Mailman Admin help pages at GNU's site
    <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node10.html>
    says this:

    description
    In the general list overview page, which shows you every
    available mailing list, each list is displayed with a short
    description. The contents of this variable is that description.
    Note that in emails from the mailing list, this description is
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    also used in the comment section of the To: address. This text
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    should be relatively short and no longer than one line.

    This seems pretty clear, and I also found the same information on other
    sites' help pages using Google (sadly I didn't note down the URLs for any
    of these).

    Yes, it is clear, but unfortunately, it's wrong.

    I'll just assume that Mailman (now) doesn't/shouldn't rewrite the "To:"
    header as standard and the Mailman Administration help page is out of date.

    And we'll get the manual corrected.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

Related Discussions

Discussion Navigation
viewthread | post
Discussion Overview
groupmailman-users @
categoriespython
postedApr 7, '06 at 3:30p
activeApr 10, '06 at 3:47p
posts4
users2
websitelist.org

2 users in discussion

Mike Brudenell: 2 posts Mark Sapiro: 2 posts

People

Translate

site design / logo © 2022 Grokbase