FAQ
I'm trying to convert an existing Solaris list server (using MajorDomo)
over to a Linux-based (RHEL 3) Mailman setup. The old machine is called
"rushmore" and the new Linux machine is called "rushmorex". The idea is
to replace "rushmore" with "rushmorex" (and change the name to be
"rushmore") once all the pieces of the new machine are in place and
working.

I've got things going on the new box w.r.t. Mailman. I created a
new mailing list (converting an old e-mail alias into a formal list)
and did a Mass Subscription to add the alias users to the new list.

When the introductory e-mail went out, one (important) user quickly
pointed out that he didn't like the idea of the new machine's name
being used - he'd rather use "list at rushmore" than "list at rushmorex".
I have to say, I agree with him. It seems like Mailman is very
"machine name-sensitive" - for example, if I try to create a list
using

http://rushmorex/cgi-bin/create

it rejects it with "No such virtual host", but if I use the FQHN

http://rushmorex.my.do.main/cgi-bin/create

it works. (I should note here that I am using Postfix on the new
"rushmorex" host, but I am not using Virtual Domains anywhere in
this setup - either in Postfix or in Mailman. It's a very simple
setup at present.)

I'm pretty new to Mailman and Postfix (I'm more familiar with
Sendmail and Courier on Solaris) so I'm not really sure how to
address this - I suppose one answer is to simply turn the old
box off and rename the new one "rushmore" and *then* mass-create
the lists on the new one so they all have "rushmore" tagged in
them (from "list at rushmore" to any embedded references to "rushmore"
in the Mailman files), but that's a bit touchy - some of the
lists on the old one are still used daily, and some are rather
important (like our Section mailing list, used every day). I
suppose another method would be to be sneaky and sneak in an MX
change to send all mail intended for "rushmore" over to "rushmorex"
instead and let it handle it that way, but then there's the race
condition to get the new lists up and running so that it'll work
as soon as the new MX kicks in.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can best deal with this
scenario?

Thanks,

- Greg

Search Discussions

  • Mark Sapiro at Nov 18, 2005 at 5:02 am

    Greg Earle wrote:
    When the introductory e-mail went out, one (important) user quickly
    pointed out that he didn't like the idea of the new machine's name
    being used - he'd rather use "list at rushmore" than "list at rushmorex".
    I have to say, I agree with him. It seems like Mailman is very
    "machine name-sensitive" - for example, if I try to create a list
    using

    http://rushmorex/cgi-bin/create

    it rejects it with "No such virtual host", but if I use the FQHN

    http://rushmorex.my.do.main/cgi-bin/create

    it works. (I should note here that I am using Postfix on the new
    "rushmorex" host, but I am not using Virtual Domains anywhere in
    this setup - either in Postfix or in Mailman. It's a very simple
    setup at present.)

    Since you are not using virtual domains, you can set
    VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py. This will cause mailman to
    ignore lots of host name discrepancies, but it won't really solve your
    problem.

    For example, it would allow you to create a list from
    <http://rushmorex/cgi-bin/create>, and such a list wiil have it's
    email host set to DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, but its web page url will be
    something like <http://rushmorex/mailman/> (or whatever results from
    substituting 'rushmorex' into DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN) which wouldn't work
    from outside your local domain.

    I'm pretty new to Mailman and Postfix (I'm more familiar with
    Sendmail and Courier on Solaris) so I'm not really sure how to
    address this - I suppose one answer is to simply turn the old
    box off and rename the new one "rushmore" and *then* mass-create
    the lists on the new one so they all have "rushmore" tagged in
    them (from "list at rushmore" to any embedded references to "rushmore"
    in the Mailman files), but that's a bit touchy - some of the
    lists on the old one are still used daily, and some are rather
    important (like our Section mailing list, used every day).

    If you were to do this, you wouldn't need to create lists on the new
    box. Just stop incoming mail on the old Machine, allow the queues to
    drain, copy the lists/ and archives/ directories from the old machine
    to the new and start mailman on the new machine and switch the DNS.

    I
    suppose another method would be to be sneaky and sneak in an MX
    change to send all mail intended for "rushmore" over to "rushmorex"
    instead and let it handle it that way, but then there's the race
    condition to get the new lists up and running so that it'll work
    as soon as the new MX kicks in.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can best deal with this
    scenario?
    As above.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Greg Earle at Nov 18, 2005 at 2:58 pm

    On Nov 18, 2005, at 9:02 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    I'm pretty new to Mailman and Postfix (I'm more familiar with
    Sendmail and Courier on Solaris) so I'm not really sure how to
    address this - I suppose one answer is to simply turn the old
    box off and rename the new one "rushmore" and *then* mass-create
    the lists on the new one so they all have "rushmore" tagged in
    them (from "list at rushmore" to any embedded references to "rushmore"
    in the Mailman files), but that's a bit touchy - some of the
    lists on the old one are still used daily, and some are rather
    important (like our Section mailing list, used every day).
    If you were to do this, you wouldn't need to create lists on the new
    box. Just stop incoming mail on the old Machine, allow the queues to
    drain, copy the lists/ and archives/ directories from the old machine
    to the new and start mailman on the new machine and switch the DNS.
    The old machine is running Majordomo and Sendmail, not Mailman and
    Postfix. Sorry if that wasn't clearer. So it's not a matter of
    just bringing lists/archives/etc. across, alas.

    Turning off the old machine and creating the lists on the new,
    renamed-to-be-the-old machine would then mean that the new
    lists would have to work straight out of the box, with no
    downtime. Given my unfamiliarity with the software, this isn't
    too likely (in fact, I can't even get the "crontab.in" cron jobs
    working; why do the default entries in that file contain entries
    that say "mailman /var/mailman/mail/<program>" instead of just
    "/var/mailman/mail/<program>"? It results in the not-unexpected
    error "/bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found"), so I was
    looking at possible alternatives - surely I'm not the first
    person to install Mailman on a new system that is designed to
    replace an old one (with the new one being renamed to take over
    the old one's name)?

    - Greg
  • John Dennis at Nov 18, 2005 at 4:25 pm

    On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 06:58 -0800, Greg Earle wrote:
    Turning off the old machine and creating the lists on the new,
    renamed-to-be-the-old machine would then mean that the new
    lists would have to work straight out of the box, with no
    downtime. Given my unfamiliarity with the software, this isn't
    too likely (in fact, I can't even get the "crontab.in" cron jobs
    working; why do the default entries in that file contain entries
    that say "mailman /var/mailman/mail/<program>" instead of just
    "/var/mailman/mail/<program>"? It results in the not-unexpected
    error "/bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found"), so I was
    looking at possible alternatives - surely I'm not the first
    person to install Mailman on a new system that is designed to
    replace an old one (with the new one being renamed to take over
    the old one's name)?
    The reason the cron entries have mailman in front of them is because
    that's the user the job is supposed to run under. Cron has been
    evolving, there are multiple ways to specify cron jobs with different
    syntax. If at all possible I recommend you install a mailman package
    prepared by your vendor as all this issues have been worked out. I see
    that your new system is RHEL, the Red Hat RPM has been pre-configured to
    integrate with the rest of the system, installation questions can be
    answered by reading /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT. Also note
    starting about 1.5 years ago we modified the mailman RPM so that the
    cron jobs are only run if you are running the mailman service, it used
    to be that installing the RPM, something many people did without ever
    running mailman, would then also install the mailman cron jobs which was
    a drag on system resources and filled the log files with pointless
    messages. Now the cron job only run when you start the mailman service,
    once again, this is all explained in INSTALL.REDHAT.

    With respect to your host name change. What you are in effect doing is
    trying to create a virtual host (you want one host to respond as if it
    were another). Both mailman and apache have mechanisms to support
    virtual domain, extensive documentation can be found in the mailman FAQ
    and at apache.org. So does postfix, I don't know about the other MTA's.
    However, you're going to have a problem if you don't "turn off" the old
    name, you can't have two machines trying to answer service requests for
    the same name without a very complex scheme which is probably far beyond
    what you want to get involved with. Mailman's involvement with the name
    change is minimal, it effects all internet services. The short answer is
    for all practical purposes there can only be one machine who answers to
    that name.


    --
    John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>
  • John W. Baxter at Nov 18, 2005 at 10:24 pm

    On 11/18/05 6:58 AM, "Greg Earle" wrote:

    The old machine is running Majordomo and Sendmail, not Mailman and
    Postfix. Sorry if that wasn't clearer. So it's not a matter of
    just bringing lists/archives/etc. across, alas.
    It was very clear in your original post, but that detail quickly got left
    out in the process of quote-trimming.

    --John

Related Discussions

Discussion Navigation
viewthread | post
Discussion Overview
groupmailman-users @
categoriespython
postedNov 18, '05 at 4:10a
activeNov 18, '05 at 10:24p
posts5
users4
websitelist.org

People

Translate

site design / logo © 2022 Grokbase