FAQ
Hi all,

I have been searching for some time now a way in cleaning up the
subject-field when people send messages with email-clients that use
different locale that English, but I could not find any solution.

I've got the impression that Mailman cleans multiple Re's and Fw's from
the subject-line (and not the email-client), but now when a user sends
an message with an email-client that uses other abbreviations as the
English ones, they just stick there. This is an example of a subject
sent in a Finnish mailing-list:

[HUV] VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: J?rvenp??

So, Here you see that as normal Re: is instead VS:


I tried also to dig in the Mailman-code, but as python is not so
familiar to me, I could not figure out in what place this "Subject-line"
clean-up is situated.

I'm running Mailman 2.1.6 on a Debian-woody server.

Best Regards,

Ren?

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  • Brad Knowles at Nov 1, 2005 at 10:38 am

    At 11:12 AM +0200 2005-11-01, Rene Hertell wrote:

    I've got the impression that Mailman cleans multiple Re's and Fw's from
    the subject-line (and not the email-client), but now when a user sends
    an message with an email-client that uses other abbreviations as the
    English ones, they just stick there. This is an example of a subject
    sent in a Finnish mailing-list:

    [HUV] VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: J?rvenp??

    So, Here you see that as normal Re: is instead VS:
    The RFCs clearly specify that you *cannot* use any subject prefix
    tag for this purpose, other than "Re:" -- even "Fw:" and "Fwd:" are
    not allowed. So, any mail client that does that is in clear
    violation of the standard.

    That said, there are obviously such programs.
    I tried also to dig in the Mailman-code, but as python is not so
    familiar to me, I could not figure out in what place this "Subject-line"
    clean-up is situated.
    It's funny, I'm looking through the code on Mailman 2.1.5, and
    I'm not finding things where I would expect. From what I can tell,
    it appears that subject line cleanup for this prefix is actually done
    in several different places.

    It's done once in HyperArch.py (which is a part of the built-in
    Mailman archiver), once in CommandRunner.py (which is the part of the
    system that handles commands to the mailing list being sent via
    e-mail), and maybe some other places as well.

    Logically, you'd think that this would be done once on message
    input, and then never need to be done again. But that doesn't seem
    to be the case here.


    Maybe someone with a deeper understanding of the code can provide
    some insight.


    Of course, do keep in mind that if you make a local change to
    your Mailman code to provide subject line stripping for other
    prefixes, you will have to re-apply those changes every time you
    upgrade your Mailman system. If you're at a shop that insists on
    using binary packages for everything, then there's nothing anyone can
    do for you.

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
    temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
    Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
  • Tokio Kikuchi at Nov 1, 2005 at 12:30 pm
    Hi,
    [HUV] VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: VS: J?rvenp??

    So, Here you see that as normal Re: is instead VS:
    Such a localized Re: altanative can cause troubles:
    http://www.geocities.com/vsre_2000/
    (I can't read Finnish. It just hit google search. ;-)
    I'm running Mailman 2.1.6 on a Debian-woody server.
    Here is your patch. We have already integrated German and Dannish dialects.


    --
    Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
    http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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  • Hannah Schroeter at Nov 2, 2005 at 10:42 am
    Hello!
    On Tue, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:30:25PM +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
    [...]
    Here is your patch. We have already integrated German and Dannish dialects.
    Does that really make sense? They don't even manage to use *one*
    localized reply prefix, witness "AW:" in a German version of one
    silly "mail client" (Outlook), and "Betreff:" in a German version
    of one other silly "mail client" (IncrediMail; the incredible nightmare
    for mailing list admins).

    Kind regards,

    Hannah.
  • Tokio Kikuchi at Nov 2, 2005 at 9:34 pm
    Hi,

    What is your problem? Will you please describe it in more detail or
    show me some example? And, what is your mailman version?

    Hannah Schroeter wrote:
    Hello!
    On Tue, Nov 01, 2005 at 09:30:25PM +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

    [...]
    Here is your patch. We have already integrated German and Dannish dialects.

    Does that really make sense? They don't even manage to use *one*
    localized reply prefix, witness "AW:" in a German version of one
    silly "mail client" (Outlook), and "Betreff:" in a German version
    of one other silly "mail client" (IncrediMail; the incredible nightmare
    for mailing list admins).

    Kind regards,

    Hannah.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    --
    Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
    http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
  • Hannah Schroeter at Nov 2, 2005 at 10:44 pm
    Hi!
    On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 06:34:38AM +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
    What is your problem? Will you please describe it in more detail or
    show me some example? And, what is your mailman version?
    I have no specific problem with mailman. I just wanted to point out how
    futile and possibly senseless it is to have mailman handle every subject
    prefix which dumb "mail user agent" writers happen to invent, by giving
    an example how they don't even agree on one prefix for *one* language
    (German).

    Mailman itself works very fine for me, just dumb "MUA"s make me annoyed
    on and off.
    [...]
    Kind regards,

    Hannah.

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postedNov 1, '05 at 9:12a
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