FAQ
I am experiencing a problem where the moderators and/or the list admins
are not getting notifications regarding things like mail being held and
I am wondering what I am doing wrong.

If I send mail to the list as a non list member, the mail gets held, I
(the non list member) get a response via email saying that my message is
being held for moderation. I can login as a list admin or moderator and
look at the pending requests and I see all of the messages awaiting
approval, but the list admins / moderators never get email about it!

I tried setting both the list admin as well as the moderators and
setting a moderator password, no one got notified. I removed the
moderators, leaving only an admin, still nothing. admin_immed_notify is
set to yes and I have also tweaked the file that sends out reminders at
8 am to send out reminders every 5 minutes and then restarted the
mailman service. I see nothing that seems to be showing a problem in the
mailman logs and in the vette log I can see things such as
"Jun 14 15:43:40 2005 (21062) Announce post from xxxxxxxx at yahoo.com
held, message-id=<20050614224339.72272.qmail at web5
0803.mail.yahoo.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list"

Does anyone know what could be going on here?

Thanks much for any help,
Kris

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  • Kris Vassallo at Jun 14, 2005 at 11:31 pm
    Just an update, I sent mail to announce-owner at xxx.com and I have
    successfully received the message, so from my understanding, the alias
    is not messed up.
    -Kris
    On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 16:25, Kris Vassallo wrote:

    I am experiencing a problem where the moderators and/or the list admins
    are not getting notifications regarding things like mail being held and
    I am wondering what I am doing wrong.

    If I send mail to the list as a non list member, the mail gets held, I
    (the non list member) get a response via email saying that my message is
    being held for moderation. I can login as a list admin or moderator and
    look at the pending requests and I see all of the messages awaiting
    approval, but the list admins / moderators never get email about it!

    I tried setting both the list admin as well as the moderators and
    setting a moderator password, no one got notified. I removed the
    moderators, leaving only an admin, still nothing. admin_immed_notify is
    set to yes and I have also tweaked the file that sends out reminders at
    8 am to send out reminders every 5 minutes and then restarted the
    mailman service. I see nothing that seems to be showing a problem in the
    mailman logs and in the vette log I can see things such as
    "Jun 14 15:43:40 2005 (21062) Announce post from xxxxxxxx at yahoo.com
    held, message-id=<20050614224339.72272.qmail at web5
    0803.mail.yahoo.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list"

    Does anyone know what could be going on here?

    Thanks much for any help,
    Kris

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  • Mark Sapiro at Jun 14, 2005 at 11:46 pm

    Kris Vassallo wrote:
    Just an update, I sent mail to announce-owner at xxx.com and I have
    successfully received the message, so from my understanding, the alias
    is not messed up.
    I replied before I saw this. OK, the announce-owner at xxx.com address
    works at least for external mail. You didn't say, but I guess from
    absence of complaint that non-held messages and approved messages
    actually get sent to the list.

    Is VirginRunner running? (try 'ps -fwu mailman' or whatever your
    mailman user is). Check Mailman's qrunner log.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Kris Vassallo at Jun 15, 2005 at 12:23 am

    On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 16:46, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Just an update, I sent mail to announce-owner at xxx.com and I have
    successfully received the message, so from my understanding, the alias
    is not messed up.
    I replied before I saw this. OK, the announce-owner at xxx.com address
    works at least for external mail. You didn't say, but I guess from
    absence of complaint that non-held messages and approved messages
    actually get sent to the list.
    Approved messages hit the list with no problem. Also things such as
    notifications that people subscribed to the list and list creations
    generate emails to the owner just fine.
    Is VirginRunner running? (try 'ps -fwu mailman' or whatever your
    mailman user is). Check Mailman's qrunner log.
    Yup sure is.

    #ps -fwu mailman
    --snip--

    mailman 21068 21058 0 15:05 ? 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
    /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s

    --snip--

    As for the log, the last thing I see in there is
    Jun 14 15:05:01 2005 (21068) VirginRunner qrunner started.
    So I watched the log and then sent a message, nothing shows up in the
    log, I don't know if something is supposed to or not.

    Thanks,
    Kris

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Mark Sapiro at Jun 15, 2005 at 1:04 am

    Kris Vassallo wrote:
    Approved messages hit the list with no problem. Also things such as
    notifications that people subscribed to the list and list creations
    generate emails to the owner just fine.
    Actually, hold and 'moderator requests' notices are created via a
    different method than the subscribe/unsubscribe and list creation
    notices.

    The former (the ones you don't get) are sent to the listname-owner
    address and the others are sent directly to the list of owners (and
    moderators in the case of sub/unsub).

    Since you have verified that the listname-owner address actually works,
    It seems there may be a problem with the way the listname-owner
    address is obtained for the notification.

    Do you have access to bin/withlist? If so, do

    bin/withlist listname

    Then at the >>> prompt type

    m.GetOwnerEmail()

    and see what is returned (enter control-D at the second >>> prompt to
    terminate withlist).


    <snip>
    As for the log, the last thing I see in there is
    Jun 14 15:05:01 2005 (21068) VirginRunner qrunner started.
    So I watched the log and then sent a message, nothing shows up in the
    log, I don't know if something is supposed to or not.
    It's good you didn't see anything. You were just looking to see a
    message about it exiting if there was one. Normally, things just run
    and there are no log entries except when a specific mailmanctl action
    (stop, start, restart) is done.

    Anyway, I think we've ruled out a qrunner problem.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Mark Sapiro at Jun 14, 2005 at 11:39 pm

    Kris Vassallo wrote:
    I am experiencing a problem where the moderators and/or the list admins
    are not getting notifications regarding things like mail being held and
    I am wondering what I am doing wrong. <snip>
    admin_immed_notify is
    set to yes and I have also tweaked the file that sends out reminders at
    8 am to send out reminders every 5 minutes and then restarted the
    mailman service.
    The cron checkdbs job is not involved in sending the admin_immed_notify
    messages, although it should send a "xx approvals waiting" type of
    message each time it is run (if xx is not zero).

    I see nothing that seems to be showing a problem in the
    mailman logs and in the vette log I can see things such as
    "Jun 14 15:43:40 2005 (21062) Announce post from xxxxxxxx at yahoo.com
    held, message-id=<20050614224339.72272.qmail at web5
    0803.mail.yahoo.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list"

    Does anyone know what could be going on here?

    All these notices are sent first to the listname-owner address and then
    when received by mailman at that address, they are resent to the
    actual owners and moderators. Something is going wrong with this
    process. Most likely, the alias for the listname-owner address has
    something wrong with it.

    Try sending a message directly to the listname-owner address and see
    what happens to it. Look in Mailman's bounce log and smtp-failure log
    (if any) and/or the MTA logs.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • Mark Sapiro at Jun 15, 2005 at 2:56 am

    Kris Vassallo wrote:
    On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 18:04, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Since you have verified that the listname-owner address actually works,
    It seems there may be a problem with the way the listname-owner
    address is obtained for the notification.
    Do you have access to bin/withlist? If so, do
    I have root access to the box so I can do whatever :)
    bin/withlist listname

    Then at the >>> prompt type

    m.GetOwnerEmail()

    and see what is returned (enter control-D at the second >>> prompt to
    terminate withlist).
    m.GetOwnerEmail()
    'announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com'

    Sounds like what you are telling me is that I should be getting the
    email according to the output of the above command. Hmph....
    Yeah, that's what I say - Hmph....

    So admin_immed_notify is yes, and the poster gets the reply that the
    message is held for moderation, but there is no e-mail to the
    owner(s), yet mail addressed directly to
    announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com gets delivered to the list owner(s).

    If it were working, you would see three entries in Mailman's smtp log
    similar to the following:

    Jun 14 10:32:59 2005 (13248)
    <mailman.292.1118770378.13246.announce at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com> smtp for 1
    recips, completed in 0.027 seconds
    Jun 14 10:32:59 2005 (13248)
    <mailman.293.1118770378.13246.announce at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com> smtp for 1
    recips, completed in 0.030 seconds
    Jun 14 10:33:27 2005 (13248)
    <mailman.293.1118770378.13246.announce at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com> smtp for 1
    recips, completed in 0.029 seconds

    The time stamps and (pid) will be different and the digits in the
    <message-id>s will be different, and the number of recips for the
    third entry would be the number of owners and moderators which may be
    more than 1, but here's the crucial thing. The first entry with 292 in
    the message-id is the notice back to the poster. The second entry with
    293 in the message-id is the notice to
    announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com, and the third entry with the same
    message-id as the second is the re-delivery of the owner notice to the
    actual owners/moderators.

    Do you see all 3? If not, what? Also is there anything in the
    smtp-failure log with the same time/message-id?

    Finally, does the same MTA handle mail outgoing from mailman and mail
    incoming to mailman. If not, what happens when the outgoing MTA gets
    the message for announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com?

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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postedJun 14, '05 at 11:25p
activeJun 15, '05 at 2:56a
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Mark Sapiro: 4 posts Kris Vassallo: 3 posts

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