FAQ
I have read and attempted to follow the instructions given in the
FAQ but I am unable to successfully transfer mailman lists between
two machines.

The source host is running mailman-2.1.5-8, the target host is
running mailman-2.1.5-33.rhel4. I first created the lists on the
target host in order that any logical or hard links would be set up
for the archives. I next shutdown and cleared out the mail services
on the source host. I then tarred the source hosts's
mailman/archives/private and mailman/lists and transferred these to
the target host and restored them into the appropriate directories.

Now when I access the web admin screen on the target host I am told
that there are no lists configured at all. But, if I try and add
one of the lists that I transferred then I am told that it already
exists. What piece of configuration data am I missing and how do I
provide it?

Regards,
Jim


--
*** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited
vox: +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive
fax: +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario
<token> = hal Canada L8E 3C3

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  • Mark Sapiro at Mar 28, 2005 at 7:38 pm

    James B. Byrne wrote:
    Now when I access the web admin screen on the target host I am told
    that there are no lists configured at all. But, if I try and add
    one of the lists that I transferred then I am told that it already
    exists. What piece of configuration data am I missing and how do I
    provide it?
    Are the domains different. Were the list visible when you first created
    them? See
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp.
    You probably need to run fix_url.py. You may also need to rebuild the
    archives with bin/arch if the "more info" links need to be fixed.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • James B. Byrne at Mar 28, 2005 at 10:00 pm

    On 28 Mar 2005 at 11:38, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Are the domains different. Were the list visible when you first
    created them? See
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.
    htp . You probably need to run fix_url.py. You may also need to
    rebuild the archives with bin/arch if the "more info" links need
    to be fixed.
    Here is the scenario. These lists are presently hosted on a server
    that is to be decommissioned. At that time the host name of that
    server will be transferred to the target machine as a CNAME. I
    wish to confirm that the lists are reachable from the network on
    the new host before cutting over. I infer from the instructions
    given above that in order to test this I will have to run:

    bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <newhostname.domain.tld>

    for each list, test, and when the host name change occurs then redo
    it on the same host with the old name again:

    bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <oldhostname.domain.tld>

    In a similar fashion the archives need to be reconstructed using
    bin/arch.

    Does this describe the situation?

    Regards,
    Jim

    --
    *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
    mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
    James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited
    vox: +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive
    fax: +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario
    <token> = hal Canada L8E 3C3
  • Mark Sapiro at Mar 28, 2005 at 10:54 pm

    James B. Byrne wrote:
    On 28 Mar 2005 at 11:38, Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Are the domains different. Were the list visible when you first
    created them? See
    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.
    htp . You probably need to run fix_url.py. You may also need to
    rebuild the archives with bin/arch if the "more info" links need
    to be fixed.
    Here is the scenario. These lists are presently hosted on a server
    that is to be decommissioned. At that time the host name of that
    server will be transferred to the target machine as a CNAME. I
    wish to confirm that the lists are reachable from the network on
    the new host before cutting over. I infer from the instructions
    given above that in order to test this I will have to run:

    bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <newhostname.domain.tld>

    for each list, test, and when the host name change occurs then redo
    it on the same host with the old name again:

    bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <oldhostname.domain.tld>

    In a similar fashion the archives need to be reconstructed using
    bin/arch.

    Does this describe the situation?

    Depending on just how much testing you want to do, you could skip all
    of the above. You won't see any lists on the
    http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/ or the
    http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/admin pages, but you should
    still see and be able to administer the lists by going to
    http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/<listname> and
    http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/admin/<listname> pages and
    visiting their archives.

    Also, if you set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py, you should
    also see all the public lists on the first two pages. This should be
    enough to let you know things are working without actually going
    through all the fix_url and bin/arch stuff.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • James B. Byrne at Mar 29, 2005 at 4:00 am
    Your suggested approach worked and, as far as I can tell, I
    simply need to change the DNS records to complete the swap. At the
    worst I will simply have to switch back to the original server and
    rethink things.

    Thank you.

    --

    *** e-mail is NOT a secure channel ***
    James B. Byrne mailto:ByrneJB.<token>@Harte-Lyne.ca
    Harte & Lyne Limited http://www.harte-lyne.ca
    9 Brockley Drive vox: +1 905 561 1241
    Hamilton, Ontario fax: +1 905 561 0757
    Canada L8E 3CE delivery <token> = hal
  • James B. Byrne at Mar 29, 2005 at 4:55 pm
    In the continuing saga of transferring mailman hosts (and moving
    from mailman mailman-2.1.5-8 to mailman-2.1.5-33) I performed the
    cut-over this morning using the following steps:

    1. Shutdown SMTP service on the old mailman host (service sendmail
    stop)

    2. Clear mqueue of all outstanding mailman deliveries (sendmail -
    qRmailman)

    3. Clear data of all outstanding mailman administrative requests
    (as a practical matter there were none).

    4. Shutdown Mailman service on the old mailman host (service
    mailman stop)

    5. # cd /var/lib/mailman

    6. # tar -xvf mailmanArchives.tar /var/lib/mailman/archives

    7. # tar -xvf mailmanLists.tar /var/lib/mailman/lists

    8. # gzip -S .gz mailman*tar

    9. Down and remove mailman IP alias address on old host. (webmin
    Networking module - use ifconfig and edit etc/sysconfig entries if
    done manually)

    10. Log on to new mailman host.

    11. Stop mailman service (service mailman stop).

    11. # cd /var/lib/mailman

    12. # sftp <oldhost>; sftp> get /var/lib/mailman/mailman*.tar.gz;
    sftp> quit

    14. tar -xvzf mailman*.tar.gz

    15. /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f -v

    16. Add mailman IP alias address to new host NIC (webmin as above)

    17. Start mailman service on new host (service mailman start)

    18. Make sure that /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf is configured to
    listen on the new IP address.

    19. Restart httpd service on new host (service httpd restart)

    20. Browse to mailman.domain.tld/mailman - mailman Greeting page
    displays! All the public lists are listed! All the list subscriber
    pages are reachable by hyperlink! Subscriber requests work! All
    list administrative pages are reachable by hyperlink!
    Administrative requests work!


    !!!Archives unreachable??????

    The Link to a transferred list's archives gives the following
    error:

    Forbidden

    You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on
    this server.

    Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to
    use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
    Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Server at mailman.domain.tld Port 80


    /var/log/httpd/error_log:

    [Tue Mar 29 11:37:55 2005] [error] [client 216.185.xxx.xxx]
    Symbolic link not allowed:
    /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/transferlist

    However, a list that was created on the new machine links to its
    own archives without problems.


    This is the mailman.conf file contents:

    /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf

    #
    # httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
    #

    ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
    <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
    </Directory>


    Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
    <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
    </Directory>

    # Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your
    server's
    # name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page
    (recommended).

    RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$
    http://mailman.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo


    Now, the interesting thing is that the locally created lists have
    archive hyperlinks of the form mailman.domain.tld while the
    transferred lists have archive hyperlinks of the form
    <realhostname>.domain.tld. I am not sure how this can be but it is
    the case none the less. So, do I run bin/fix_url.py or add an
    additional redirect directive to conf.d/mailman.conf or do
    something else?


    Any and all assistance greatly appreciated.

    Regards,
    Jim

    --
    *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
    mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
    James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited
    vox: +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive
    fax: +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario
    <token> = hal Canada L8E 3C3
  • Mark Sapiro at Mar 29, 2005 at 5:49 pm
    James B. Byrne wrote"
    !!!Archives unreachable??????

    The Link to a transferred list's archives gives the following
    error:

    Forbidden

    You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on
    this server.

    Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to
    use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
    Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Server at mailman.domain.tld Port 80


    /var/log/httpd/error_log:

    [Tue Mar 29 11:37:55 2005] [error] [client 216.185.xxx.xxx]
    Symbolic link not allowed:
    /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/transferlist

    However, a list that was created on the new machine links to its
    own archives without problems.


    This is the mailman.conf file contents:

    /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf

    #
    # httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
    #

    ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
    <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
    </Directory>


    Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
    <Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
    </Directory>
    You have Options FollowSymLinks so that should be OK, but it apparently
    doesn't get applied when the host is <realhostname>.domain.tld.


    Now, the interesting thing is that the locally created lists have
    archive hyperlinks of the form mailman.domain.tld while the
    transferred lists have archive hyperlinks of the form
    <realhostname>.domain.tld. I am not sure how this can be but it is
    the case none the less. So, do I run bin/fix_url.py or add an
    additional redirect directive to conf.d/mailman.conf or do
    something else?

    What happens if you go to
    http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/

    Do the directives in mailman.conf only apply to the mailman.domain.tld
    host?

    Where are these hyperlinks of the form
    http://<realhostname>.domain.tld/pipermail/... Are they everywhere in
    the archive or just on the listinfo page? Have you changed
    PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py?

    If the various links to the listinfo and admin pages have the right
    domain, you probably don't need to run fix_url.py.

    If the 'bad' links are everywhere in the archive, then they were that
    way on the old machine. If you want to 'fix' them, you need to run

    bin/arch --wipe

    for each list, but it might be better to figure out what's needed in
    the Apache config to make things work as they are.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • James B. Byrne at Mar 29, 2005 at 8:18 pm

    On 29 Mar 2005 at 9:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:
    What happens if you go to
    http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/
    Forbidden

    You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on
    this server.

    Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to
    use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
    Do the directives in mailman.conf only apply to the
    mailman.domain.tld host?
    To my knowledge, no. As far as I can tell the mailman.conf
    directives are applied across every IP address on the server.
    There are no other redirects specified elsewhere that deal with
    \mailman or \pipermail and I lack sufficient experience with http
    directives to know whether or not this situation can be resolved by
    adding a second Redirectmatch for the fqdn host or if that would
    just override the one for the mailman aliased hostname.
    Where are these hyperlinks of the form
    http://<realhostname>.domain.tld/pipermail/... Are they
    everywhere in the archive or just on the listinfo page?
    All the archives, both the testlist and the others, have embedded
    http links of the form:

    testlist/2004-July/index.html: <li><b><a
    href="http://mailman.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/testlist">More
    info on this list...

    and

    /thread.html: <li><b><a
    href="http://mailman.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/reallist">

    Have you changed PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py?
    No.

    Thanks,
    Jim

    --
    *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
    mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
    James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited
    vox: +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive
    fax: +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario
    <token> = hal Canada L8E 3C3
  • Mark Sapiro at Mar 29, 2005 at 9:50 pm

    James B. Byrne wrote:
    On 29 Mar 2005 at 9:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:


    What happens if you go to
    http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/
    Forbidden

    You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on
    this server.

    Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to
    use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

    OK, now I'm really confused. I thought you said when you went to
    http://<realhostname>.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/ you got the
    above error, and if you went to
    http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/<some_new_list> you got to the
    archive.

    Are you saying that that is correct, but going to an 'old list' archive
    using either host name gives the 403? If that is the case, it must be
    a permission issue. Check the group and permissions in the
    archives/private/ directory for both old and new lists. If all that
    looks OK, it might be a SeLinux issue. Search the archives with
    http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+selinux
    for more on this.

    --
    Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
    San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
  • James B. Byrne at Mar 29, 2005 at 10:13 pm
    Ok. I fixed the errors. The 403 Forbidden was caused by restoring
    logical links dependent upon a different directory layout than that
    used by CentOS4 (RHEL4), "/var/mailman/archives/public" vice
    "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public."

    The logical links that got tarred from the old host pointed to
    "<listname> -> /var/mailman/archives/private/<listname>", which is
    a directory structure that does not exist on the new server, hence
    the error. Repairing the logical links to "<listname> ->
    /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>" fixed that problem.

    The problem with mapping the fqdn host to the mailman alias I
    accomplished by adding the following to the mailman.conf file.

    # Stolen shamelessly from
    # http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/rewriteguide.html
    # [NC] No Case matching in regexp

    RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} !^inet07\.(.*)\.otherdomain\.tld [NC]
    RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} !^$
    RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://mailman.domain.tld/$1

    # Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your
    # server's name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo
    # page (recommended).
    # [L,R] Last directive to match, Return without condition code.
    # [R=###] is available as an alternative (### = condition code).

    RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$
    http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo [L,R]

    Thanks for the help.

    Regards,
    Jim


    --
    *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
    mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
    James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited
    vox: +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive
    fax: +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario
    <token> = hal Canada L8E 3C3
  • John Dennis at Mar 29, 2005 at 10:37 pm

    On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 17:13 -0500, James B. Byrne wrote:
    Ok. I fixed the errors. The 403 Forbidden was caused by restoring
    logical links dependent upon a different directory layout than that
    used by CentOS4 (RHEL4), "/var/mailman/archives/public" vice
    "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public."
    The version of mailman in rawhide and the version set to appear in FC4
    has a migration script that moves directories and files from the old
    layout to the new FHS layout. It is located in /usr/share/doc/mailman-
    */contrib and documentation on the directory structure and change can be
    found in /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT.
    --
    John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>

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postedMar 28, '05 at 7:25p
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