FAQ
We've been using Mailman with few problems for some time now on a
G4/OS X 10.3.4, Mailman 2.1.2. The set up was done by a temp- a guy
with UNIX experience that I lack, and he is off in Germany now. Trying
to add some new lists, I'm getting a variety of errors, and decided
that maybe it's time to get Mailman up to date. Maybe that would solve
my errors. I've downloaded 2.1.5 and have read the FAQ, the Readme,
and the Upgrading docs, but I'm still not sure about a few things:
1) there is nothing in the upgrading doc that specifically talks about
2.1.2 -> 2.1.5. So, is the info for 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5 sufficient?
2) On the Readme OS X- seems to speak to Jaquar and is out of date/ not
applicable to 10.3.x?
3) In the Readme, under "create your first list" , the default location
is listed as /usr/local/mailman. On my server, it is
usr/share/mailman. Should that be changed?

I don't have very many lists, and I'm need to delete all members and
re-import list menmbers, so I'm happy to wipe it all clean and start
from scratch if needed.

4) the dir, usr/share/mailman does not contain everything that I see in
the 2.1.5 folder I downloaded.

Thx,
--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
rxweb+ at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu

Search Discussions

  • Brad Knowles at Jun 29, 2004 at 4:14 pm

    At 12:00 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:

    1) there is nothing in the upgrading doc that specifically talks about
    2.1.2 -> 2.1.5. So, is the info for 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5 sufficient?
    It should be.
    2) On the Readme OS X- seems to speak to Jaquar and is out of
    date/not applicable to 10.3.x?
    Apple has not contributed their changes to Mailman back to the
    project, nor have they contributed any documentation back to the
    project about what they changed. What is here is what people have
    created on their own.

    So far as I know, all the people running Mailman on MacOS X are
    either doing it from stuff they've installed themselves on Jaguar, or
    they're using the Apple-bundled stuff on Panther Server. I don't
    know of anyone who has tried using the standard Mailman stuff on
    Panther (as opposed to Panther Server).

    See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.


    Once you get your upgrade done, it would be nice if you could
    contribute your experiences and knowledge back to the project, to try
    to help fill this gap.
    3) In the Readme, under "create your first list" , the default location
    is listed as /usr/local/mailman. On my server, it is usr/share/mailman.
    Should that be changed?
    It depends on what was done by the guy who originally installed
    it. However, it seems plausible that all references to
    /usr/local/mailman would need to be changed to /usr/share/mailman on
    your system.
    I don't have very many lists, and I'm need to delete all members and
    re-import list menmbers, so I'm happy to wipe it all clean and start
    from scratch if needed.
    The update over the stuff you have now should be relatively
    clean. Should be.
    4) the dir, usr/share/mailman does not contain everything that I see in
    the 2.1.5 folder I downloaded.
    That's not a good sign. Is there a directory named "mailman"
    anywhere else on the system?

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
  • Thomas Waters at Jun 29, 2004 at 8:14 pm
    I set up a text box to work on before touching the real machine. Clean
    install of Panther Server, created a few lists.downloaded 2.1.5. And
    I'm happy to write up what I did atfer I'm successfully done. But
    then, I'm stuck. I guess I'm looking for step by step.

    OK. v So I have the 2.1.5 folder on the desktop. Do I want to use the
    terminal and mv to move the directory to the location of the existing
    directly? Will this overwrite everything in /usr/share/mailman? Then
    run bin/update? Or do I use the terminal to run bin/update from on the
    desktop?

    On Jun 29, 2004, at 12:14 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
    At 12:00 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:

    1) there is nothing in the upgrading doc that specifically talks
    about
    2.1.2 -> 2.1.5. So, is the info for 2.1.4 -> 2.1.5 sufficient?
    It should be.
    2) On the Readme OS X- seems to speak to Jaquar and is out of
    date/not applicable to 10.3.x?
    Apple has not contributed their changes to Mailman back to the
    project, nor have they contributed any documentation back to the
    project about what they changed. What is here is what people have
    created on their own.

    So far as I know, all the people running Mailman on MacOS X are
    either doing it from stuff they've installed themselves on Jaguar, or
    they're using the Apple-bundled stuff on Panther Server. I don't know
    of anyone who has tried using the standard Mailman stuff on Panther
    (as opposed to Panther Server).

    See
    <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?
    req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.


    Once you get your upgrade done, it would be nice if you could
    contribute your experiences and knowledge back to the project, to try
    to help fill this gap.
    3) In the Readme, under "create your first list" , the default
    location
    is listed as /usr/local/mailman. On my server, it is
    usr/share/mailman.
    Should that be changed?
    It depends on what was done by the guy who originally installed it.
    However, it seems plausible that all references to /usr/local/mailman
    would need to be changed to /usr/share/mailman on your system.
    I don't have very many lists, and I'm need to delete all members and
    re-import list menmbers, so I'm happy to wipe it all clean and start
    from scratch if needed.
    The update over the stuff you have now should be relatively clean.
    Should be.
    4) the dir, usr/share/mailman does not contain everything that I see
    in
    the 2.1.5 folder I downloaded.
    That's not a good sign. Is there a directory named "mailman"
    anywhere else on the system?

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
    --
    Thomas Waters
    Director of Information and Communication Services
    University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
    412-383-7471
    rxweb+ at pitt.edu
    http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu
  • Brad Knowles at Jun 29, 2004 at 11:18 pm

    At 4:14 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:

    OK. v So I have the 2.1.5 folder on the desktop. Do I want to use the
    terminal and mv to move the directory to the location of the existing
    directly?
    No, you don't want to do that.
    Will this overwrite everything in /usr/share/mailman? Then
    run bin/update? Or do I use the terminal to run bin/update from on
    the desktop?
    Problem is, we don't know the specific options that Apple used
    when they built the previous version. You could try using "make
    update" from Terminal at the top level of the Mailman folder, but
    you'd need to make sure to specify the correct target Folder. That
    might also miss some other build options. Unfortunately, Apple
    didn't document anything, so we're pretty much completely blind.

    To do this right, I fear that you're going to have to do a
    complete fresh install and then copy over selected data. You may (or
    may not) be able to copy over the configuration files, so you may be
    forced to regenerate that information.


    This is a typical problem with any vendor pre-packaged version of
    a program. Do you stick with the package version, which the vendor
    is responsible for making sure works, or do you install the current
    version from source?

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
  • Thomas Waters at Jun 30, 2004 at 12:33 am
    Thanks Brad and Dan for your comments.

    Mailman has worked really well for me, but as someone coming to Panther
    Server and Mailman from running a webstar server, it is a big jump- a
    BIG change. Better docs to help the newbie/clueless would go a long
    way. That said, the more I work in this "unix" environment, the easier
    it gets and the cooler it all seems. But I still don't *think* unix
    enough to make it easy yet. Anyway will give it a shot in the AM and
    see where I get to.
    On Jun 29, 2004, at 7:18 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
    At 4:14 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:

    OK. v So I have the 2.1.5 folder on the desktop. Do I want to use
    the
    terminal and mv to move the directory to the location of the existing
    directly?
    No, you don't want to do that.
    Will this overwrite everything in /usr/share/mailman? Then
    run bin/update? Or do I use the terminal to run bin/update from on
    the desktop?
    Problem is, we don't know the specific options that Apple used when
    they built the previous version. You could try using "make update"
    from Terminal at the top level of the Mailman folder, but you'd need
    to make sure to specify the correct target Folder. That might also
    miss some other build options. Unfortunately, Apple didn't document
    anything, so we're pretty much completely blind.

    To do this right, I fear that you're going to have to do a complete
    fresh install and then copy over selected data. You may (or may not)
    be able to copy over the configuration files, so you may be forced to
    regenerate that information.


    This is a typical problem with any vendor pre-packaged version of a
    program. Do you stick with the package version, which the vendor is
    responsible for making sure works, or do you install the current
    version from source?

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
  • Brad Knowles at Jun 30, 2004 at 10:58 am

    At 8:33 PM -0400 2004-06-29, Thomas Waters wrote:

    Mailman has worked really well for me, but as someone coming to Panther
    Server and Mailman from running a webstar server, it is a big jump- a
    BIG change. Better docs to help the newbie/clueless would go a long way.
    We understand. We'd like to have better documentation, but this
    is an open source project, and our only support is from the
    community. If vendors like Apple would contribute their changes (and
    documentation) back to the project, then that would make things a lot
    easier.

    As it is, we have to take what we can get from the sources we
    have available. If you can help us clarify the documentation so that
    it is more useful to you, that will help us help you -- and others.
    That said, the more I work in this "unix" environment, the easier it
    gets and the cooler it all seems. But I still don't *think* unix enough
    to make it easy yet. Anyway will give it a shot in the AM and see where
    I get to.
    Please let us know how it goes.

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
  • Larry Stone at Jun 30, 2004 at 2:54 am

    On 6/29/04 11:14 AM, Brad Knowles at brad.knowles at skynet.be wrote:

    So far as I know, all the people running Mailman on MacOS X are
    either doing it from stuff they've installed themselves on Jaguar, or
    they're using the Apple-bundled stuff on Panther Server. I don't
    know of anyone who has tried using the standard Mailman stuff on
    Panther (as opposed to Panther Server).
    Well, I have Mailman 2.1.4 running just fine on Panther (regular, not
    Server). I basically followed the instructions contained in
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/022944.html>
    (which deals with getting Mailman running under Jaguar) modified for the
    fact that Panther includes Postfix rather than Sendmail and I already had
    Postfix running. I don't recall exactly what I had to differently but I
    don't recall any major problems. FWIW, I have Mailman installed in
    /Applications/Mailman (that's the Applications folder when viewed from the
    Mac Desktop).

    I wish I could be more helpful but it's very doable and didn't take a lot of
    work.

    -- Larry Stone
    larry at stonejongleux.com
    http://www.stonejongleux.com/
  • Brad Knowles at Jun 30, 2004 at 10:54 am

    At 9:54 PM -0500 2004-06-29, Larry Stone wrote:

    Well, I have Mailman 2.1.4 running just fine on Panther (regular, not
    Server). I basically followed the instructions contained in
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/022944.html>
    (which deals with getting Mailman running under Jaguar) modified for the
    fact that Panther includes Postfix rather than Sendmail and I already had
    Postfix running.
    If you can remember exactly what you did, we can update the FAQ
    to include your comments.

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
  • Dan Phillips at Jun 30, 2004 at 1:15 pm

    On Jun 30, 2004, at 5:54 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:
    At 9:54 PM -0500 2004-06-29, Larry Stone wrote:
    Well, I have Mailman 2.1.4 running just fine on Panther (regular, not
    Server). I basically followed the instructions contained in

    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-October/
    022944.html>
    (which deals with getting Mailman running under Jaguar) modified for
    the
    fact that Panther includes Postfix rather than Sendmail and I
    already had
    Postfix running.
    If you can remember exactly what you did, we can update the FAQ to
    include your comments.
    This is a completely different animal however, in that non-Server
    Panther does not come with Mailman already installed (at least mine
    didn't). This is just a plain fresh install rather than an update of an
    Apple modified installation.


    Dan
    ================================
    Dan Phillips
    Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
    site administrator: music.memphis.edu
  • Brad Knowles at Jun 30, 2004 at 1:37 pm

    At 8:15 AM -0500 2004-06-30, Dan Phillips wrote:

    This is a completely different animal however, in that non-Server Panther
    does not come with Mailman already installed (at least mine didn't). This
    is just a plain fresh install rather than an update of an Apple modified
    installation.
    I understand. This is still a configuration I'd like to see
    specifically addressed in the documentation/FAQ.

    Handling the Panther Server issues is a separate matter, one that
    we may not be able to solve.

    --
    Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles at skynet.be>

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

    SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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