FAQ
This is a linguistic subtlety in the English version of Mailman.

Maliman refers to list subscribers as "members," for example when rejecting a post from a "non-member" to a "members-only" list. This terminology is confusing in some circumstances. Here's why.

I run lists for a professional, non-profit, organization which has dues-paying members. Not all paying members subscribe to all lists, and not all subscribers are paying members. If a dues-paying member has a posting rejected to what Mailman calls a "members-only" list, he will promptly complain to me that he is, in fact, a "member." And he's right. He's just not a *subscriber* to the list in question.

In my own Mailman 2.0.11 installation, I've scoured the sources for user-visible strings and changed "member" to "subscriber" everywhere I thought it was important. I would like to suggest this become an official terminology change for future versions of Mailman.

- Bob

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  • Kyle Rhorer at Jul 16, 2002 at 5:07 pm

    On Tuesday 16 July 2002 11:09, Bob Weissman wrote:
    This is a linguistic subtlety in the English version of Mailman. [...]
    In my own Mailman 2.0.11 installation, I've scoured the sources for
    user-visible strings and changed "member" to "subscriber" everywhere
    I thought it was important. I would like to suggest this become an
    official terminology change for future versions of Mailman.
    I'd like to reinforce the point. When posts to my lists from
    dues-paying members are rejected because they are from "non-members" it
    raises some hackles. The distinction between a member of the
    organization and a subscriber to one of the organization's lists needs
    to be clear. I'm also eagerly awaiting the capability mentioned in a
    previous thread to summarily reject (or simply ignore) posts from
    non-subscribers to a subscribers-only list instead of requiring the
    list administrator to reject them.

    Kyle
  • G. Armour Van Horn at Jul 16, 2002 at 5:32 pm
    I'm certainly not brave enough to attempt to change it, but I have often been bothered by the terminology. Subscriber is the exact right word in this case, member or employee might be a good fit, but then again, they might not. I have lists in which member, employee, and stockholder would be appropriate, but I also have a couple of lists where subscriber is the only correct word, and it is correct in all
    cases.

    So, I'll second the suggestion to globally change the terminology, but I don't want to get out my broadaxe and try it myself!

    Van

    Bob Weissman wrote:
    This is a linguistic subtlety in the English version of Mailman.

    Maliman refers to list subscribers as "members," for example when rejecting a post from a "non-member" to a "members-only" list. This terminology is confusing in some circumstances. Here's why.

    I run lists for a professional, non-profit, organization which has dues-paying members. Not all paying members subscribe to all lists, and not all subscribers are paying members. If a dues-paying member has a posting rejected to what Mailman calls a "members-only" list, he will promptly complain to me that he is, in fact, a "member." And he's right. He's just not a *subscriber* to the list in question.

    In my own Mailman 2.0.11 installation, I've scoured the sources for user-visible strings and changed "member" to "subscriber" everywhere I thought it was important. I would like to suggest this become an official terminology change for future versions of Mailman.

    - Bob

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  • David Padilla at Oct 1, 2002 at 11:06 am
    My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.

    How is this done? I have seen it done with .php, but that is beyond me. Is there there a Perl program, or other program availble for this? Is there a hosting company which provides this feature for a reasonable fee? I have review much of Webmonkey and searched the Web without success. I would appreciate any suggestions.

    Thanks,
    David
  • LuKreme at Oct 2, 2002 at 6:41 am

    On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:06 AM, David Padilla wrote:

    My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to
    use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on
    many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a
    button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.
    This is a very good way to get yourself )and your ISP) listed in every
    list of spammers known, and then some.

    Bad bad bad bad bad idea. Some scumball starts hitting that page with
    millions of subscribe requests and then uses your list to deliver his
    spam. No thanks.

    --
    Conversations are so difficult. You risk changing yourself, admitting
    you
    were wrong, coming to appreciate the other person's perspective. --
    Seventeen magazine
  • David Padilla at Oct 1, 2002 at 7:18 pm
    I should have been more clear. I want to create direct subscription to announcement only lists, similiar to those see ALL over the net. You know those, add your e-mail and become subscirbed to our next newletter, or anouncement, etc.

    Thanks,
    david
    -----Original Message-----
    From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
    [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of LuKreme
    Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:41 PM
    To: mailman-users at python.org
    Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: One Button Direct Subscription


    On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:06 AM, David Padilla wrote:

    My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to
    use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on
    many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a
    button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.
    This is a very good way to get yourself )and your ISP) listed in every
    list of spammers known, and then some.

    Bad bad bad bad bad idea. Some scumball starts hitting that page with
    millions of subscribe requests and then uses your list to deliver his
    spam. No thanks.

    --
    Conversations are so difficult. You risk changing yourself, admitting
    you
    were wrong, coming to appreciate the other person's perspective. --
    Seventeen magazine


    ------------------------------------------------------
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    Mailman-Users at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
    Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
    Searchable Archives:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
  • Will Yardley at Oct 2, 2002 at 8:10 am

    David Padilla wrote:

    I should have been more clear. I want to create direct subscription to
    announcement only lists, similiar to those see ALL over the net. You
    know those, add your e-mail and become subscirbed to our next
    newletter, or anouncement, etc.
    Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone
    can subscribe anyone else to your list.

    This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like
    this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.

    --
    Will Yardley
    input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
  • Jim Popovitch at Oct 2, 2002 at 11:23 am
    Hi Will,

    That is not entirely true. Sometimes you already have the person
    authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking software), and all
    that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by
    pressing one button.

    -Jim P.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Yardley
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM

    Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone
    can subscribe anyone else to your list.

    This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like
    this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.

    --
    Will Yardley
    input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
  • Pankaj K Garg at Oct 2, 2002 at 5:03 pm
    Yes, indeed this is the situation I am also in. I have an application,
    somewhat like SourceForge, where we embed Mailman as the list manager.
    The user is already logged in to the main application, and we know
    the user's email address, etc. So, its not very nice to have:
    (1) separate passwords for each mailing list, and (2) require the user
    to type in their identity and password for subscription, options editing,
    and un-subscribe requests.

    I'm in the process of changing some of the Cgi scripts and making a
    few changes to Mailman 2.0.9 to remove these aspects for an already
    authenticated user.

    If others are interested, I can put a patch together with the latest
    Mailman code.

    Regards

    Pankaj

    -----Original Message-----
    From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
    [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:24 AM
    To: Will Yardley; mailman-users at python.org
    Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription


    Hi Will,

    That is not entirely true. Sometimes you already have the person
    authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking
    software), and all
    that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by
    pressing one button.

    -Jim P.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Yardley
    Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM

    Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription;
    otherwise anyone
    can subscribe anyone else to your list.

    This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a
    system like
    this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.

    --
    Will Yardley
    input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >









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    Mailman-Users at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
    Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
    Searchable Archives:
    http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

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postedJul 16, '02 at 4:09p
activeOct 2, '02 at 5:03p
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