FAQ
All,

Currently we have 8 patches "Ready for Committer" in the current CF.
Some of them have been that status for some time.

From traffic on this list, I'm getting the impression that nobody other
than Robert, Heikki and Tom are committing other people's patches. I
know we have more committers than that. Bruce? Simon? Itagaki? Bueller?

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com

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  • Simon Riggs at Jul 14, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:01 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:

    Currently we have 8 patches "Ready for Committer" in the current CF.
    Some of them have been that status for some time.

    From traffic on this list, I'm getting the impression that nobody other
    than Robert, Heikki and Tom are committing other people's patches.  I
    know we have more committers than that.  Bruce?  Simon?  Itagaki?  Bueller?
    Someone called Simon Riggs has committed one patch by another author
    and reviewed 3 others, as well as spending many days working on bugs
    for beta.

    It would be sensible if people based their comments on actual events
    rather than negative impressions.

    ISTM that you are right that there are other committers that have not
    done anything. How strange that you name myself, yet not others.

    --
    Simon Riggs                   http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
    PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services
  • Josh Berkus at Jul 14, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    ISTM that you are right that there are other committers that have not
    done anything. How strange that you name myself, yet not others.
    Touchy today, eh?

    And I do name others, read the email again.

    Anyway, my question is: the list of committers I know of who have
    general knowledge of the codebase and can commit a wide variety of other
    people's patches are:

    Tom
    Robert
    Heikki
    Bruce
    Simon

    Who else?

    --
    Josh Berkus
    PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
    http://pgexperts.com
  • Bruce Momjian at Jul 14, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Josh Berkus wrote:
    ISTM that you are right that there are other committers that have not
    done anything. How strange that you name myself, yet not others.
    Touchy today, eh?

    And I do name others, read the email again.

    Anyway, my question is: the list of committers I know of who have
    general knowledge of the codebase and can commit a wide variety of other
    people's patches are:

    Tom
    Robert
    Heikki
    Bruce
    Simon
    I have found my reading of the email lists is too delayed to effectively
    commit other's patches.

    --
    Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
    EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

    + It's impossible for everything to be true. +
  • Peter Eisentraut at Jul 15, 2011 at 4:43 am

    On tor, 2011-07-14 at 12:01 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:
    Currently we have 8 patches "Ready for Committer" in the current CF.
    Some of them have been that status for some time.
    From traffic on this list, I'm getting the impression that nobody other
    than Robert, Heikki and Tom are committing other people's patches. I
    know we have more committers than that. Bruce? Simon? Itagaki? Bueller?
    I'm still working on preparing 9.1. I'm not following 9.2 development
    yet.
  • Alvaro Herrera at Jul 15, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Excerpts from Josh Berkus's message of jue jul 14 15:01:10 -0400 2011:
    All,

    Currently we have 8 patches "Ready for Committer" in the current CF.
    Some of them have been that status for some time.

    From traffic on this list, I'm getting the impression that nobody other
    than Robert, Heikki and Tom are committing other people's patches. I
    know we have more committers than that. Bruce? Simon? Itagaki? Bueller?
    It seems that by mentioning some people but not all, you offended both
    the people you mentioned (at least some of them, because they are
    already actively helping) and those that you didn't (at least some of
    them, because they are already actively helping; those that are not
    completely inactive in the project, that is).

    --
    Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
    The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
    PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
  • Josh Berkus at Jul 15, 2011 at 8:32 pm
    Alvaro,
    It seems that by mentioning some people but not all, you offended both
    the people you mentioned (at least some of them, because they are
    already actively helping) and those that you didn't (at least some of
    them, because they are already actively helping; those that are not
    completely inactive in the project, that is).
    Yeah, everybody's super-touchy this week. Must be the weather.

    Speaking of which, is there anything you could commit? ;-)


    --
    Josh Berkus
    PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
    http://pgexperts.com
  • Alvaro Herrera at Jul 15, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    Excerpts from Josh Berkus's message of vie jul 15 16:32:42 -0400 2011:
    Alvaro,
    It seems that by mentioning some people but not all, you offended both
    the people you mentioned (at least some of them, because they are
    already actively helping) and those that you didn't (at least some of
    them, because they are already actively helping; those that are not
    completely inactive in the project, that is).
    Yeah, everybody's super-touchy this week. Must be the weather.
    It's been regularly horrible here, so yeah, that might explain it.
    Speaking of which, is there anything you could commit? ;-)
    I intend to give the finishing touches to Pavel's plpgsql patch and
    commit, so that's one item to take off the list. Everything else seems
    to be in somebody else's hands, or is larger than I can grab ATM.

    --
    Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
    The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
    PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
  • Bruce Momjian at Jul 15, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Josh Berkus wrote:
    Alvaro,
    It seems that by mentioning some people but not all, you offended both
    the people you mentioned (at least some of them, because they are
    already actively helping) and those that you didn't (at least some of
    them, because they are already actively helping; those that are not
    completely inactive in the project, that is).
    Yeah, everybody's super-touchy this week. Must be the weather.
    Somehow blaming everyone else doesn't seem like the proper reaction. :-(

    --
    Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
    EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

    + It's impossible for everything to be true. +
  • Josh Berkus at Jul 15, 2011 at 9:52 pm

    Yeah, everybody's super-touchy this week. Must be the weather.
    Somehow blaming everyone else doesn't seem like the proper reaction. :-(
    Look, it wasn't meant to be a complete list, or even a representative
    one. That's why I tagged a "Bueller?" at the end. Even for those who
    don't get the reference, there should have been a "Who the hell is Bueller?"

    You might notice that we don't publish a list of committers anywhere.
    In fact, *I* don't have one. So when I want to say "hey, who could be
    doing committing and isn't currently?" I don't have any way to answer
    that question. Which is why I posted the e-mail.

    So, I reiterate: who do we have, as committers, who are capable of
    committing a fairly wide array of patches? This would be good
    information for every CF Manager to have, when things start getting
    stuck in "ready for committer".

    --
    Josh Berkus
    PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
    http://pgexperts.com
  • Tom Lane at Jul 15, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Josh Berkus writes:
    You might notice that we don't publish a list of committers anywhere.
    In fact, *I* don't have one.
    http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Committers

    regards, tom lane
  • Josh Berkus at Jul 15, 2011 at 10:33 pm
    Oh, thanks! I didn't know that existed.

    So, if any of the following people could possibly pick up even one patch
    from the current commitfest and commit it, it would clear out our
    pending commit list:

    * Bruce Momjian
    * Tatsuo Ishii
    * Andrew Dunstan
    * Magnus Hagander
    * Greg Stark
    * Itagaki Takahiro

    ... noting that I have already heard from Simon, Joe, Alvaro, Tom,
    Robert, Peter and Heikki. I'm basing the above list on (a) some
    knowledge of which folks only seem to work on very specific areas of
    code, and (b) looking at pgsql-committers for the past 3 weeks.

    In any case, it seems like we have a pool of 13 people would could be
    committing general patches every commitfest. Not a huge number
    considering the number of patches we get, but more than I see actually
    committing stuff for most CFs.

    --
    Josh Berkus
    PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
    http://pgexperts.com
  • Alvaro Herrera at Jul 15, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Excerpts from Josh Berkus's message of vie jul 15 18:33:14 -0400 2011:
    Oh, thanks! I didn't know that existed.

    So, if any of the following people could possibly pick up even one patch
    from the current commitfest and commit it, it would clear out our
    pending commit list:
    The "ready for committer" state does not mean that the committer can
    grab the patch and apply it. Last time I checked, one was still
    expected to review it and take full responsibility for any breakage
    caused by it. Given this, I cannot responsibly grab more than a couple
    patches, because then I'd be swamped when bug reports started coming in.

    --
    Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
    The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
    PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
  • Josh Berkus at Jul 15, 2011 at 11:02 pm
    Alvaro,
    The "ready for committer" state does not mean that the committer can
    grab the patch and apply it. Last time I checked, one was still
    expected to review it and take full responsibility for any breakage
    caused by it.
    You're absolutely correct. Which is why committer bandwidth is such a
    choke point.

    --
    Josh Berkus
    PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
    http://pgexperts.com
  • Robert Haas at Jul 17, 2011 at 1:47 am

    On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
    Josh Berkus wrote:
    Alvaro,
    It seems that by mentioning some people but not all, you offended both
    the people you mentioned (at least some of them, because they are
    already actively helping) and those that you didn't (at least some of
    them, because they are already actively helping; those that are not
    completely inactive in the project, that is).
    Yeah, everybody's super-touchy this week.   Must be the weather.
    Somehow blaming everyone else doesn't seem like the proper reaction.  :-(
    I don't think Josh's tone is really the problem we should be worrying
    about here. He's pointing out a legitimate problem. If you go back
    and look at the CF app for 9.1, you'll see that Tom, Peter, and I
    committed the overwhelming majority of the patches which were
    submitted to CFs and went on to get committed. So if we have a
    CommitFest where Tom is on vacation and Peter is devoting his time to
    polishing release N-1 rather than new development on release N, then
    we're either going to need a much larger investment of time by one or
    more other committers, or we're not really going to get through
    everything. When you lose the efforts of somebody who might commit 10
    or 20 patches in a CF and comment usefully on another 10 or 20, it
    leaves a big hole.

    I don't believe Josh's intent was to disparage your contributions, or
    Simon's, or Alvaro's, and it certainly isn't mine. I appreciate all
    the work that has been done on this CommitFest by everyone who has
    participated, reviewers as well as committers. At the same time, part
    of the thankless task of being CF manager is asking people to step up
    to the plate and do more. It takes a heck of a lot of work to get 70
    patches reviewed and committed, and it is unlikely that we will ever
    have enough people spontaneously step up to the plate to make that
    happen. Since we can't call up people's bosses and complain that they
    aren't doing enough work on the CommitFest, the CF manager is left
    with the options of (1) trying to review (and commit?) all 30 or 40
    remaining patches single-handedly or (2) begging. If we're then going
    to complain when they do one or both of those things, well, I think
    that's a bit unfair.

    --
    Robert Haas
    EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
    The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
  • Bruce Momjian at Jul 17, 2011 at 2:04 am

    Robert Haas wrote:
    On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
    Josh Berkus wrote:
    Alvaro,
    It seems that by mentioning some people but not all, you offended both
    the people you mentioned (at least some of them, because they are
    already actively helping) and those that you didn't (at least some of
    them, because they are already actively helping; those that are not
    completely inactive in the project, that is).
    Yeah, everybody's super-touchy this week. ? Must be the weather.
    Somehow blaming everyone else doesn't seem like the proper reaction. ?:-(
    I don't think Josh's tone is really the problem we should be worrying
    about here. He's pointing out a legitimate problem. If you go back
    and look at the CF app for 9.1, you'll see that Tom, Peter, and I
    committed the overwhelming majority of the patches which were
    submitted to CFs and went on to get committed. So if we have a
    CommitFest where Tom is on vacation and Peter is devoting his time to
    polishing release N-1 rather than new development on release N, then
    we're either going to need a much larger investment of time by one or
    more other committers, or we're not really going to get through
    everything. When you lose the efforts of somebody who might commit 10
    or 20 patches in a CF and comment usefully on another 10 or 20, it
    leaves a big hole.
    This mostly revoles around the problem of trying to finalize 9.1 while
    applying 9.2 patches --- no surprise we don't have enough cycles to do
    that.

    --
    Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
    EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

    + It's impossible for everything to be true. +
  • Robert Haas at Jul 17, 2011 at 3:16 am

    On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 10:04 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
    This mostly revoles around the problem of trying to finalize 9.1 while
    applying 9.2 patches --- no surprise we don't have enough cycles to do
    that.
    Well, sorta. The fact that Josh got his head bitten off for
    suggesting that we weren't going to get this CommitFest finished
    without some more committer involvement could have happened at any
    time in the release cycle (and has, in the past).

    I think the question of whether we can overlap release cycles is a bit
    of a red herring. We had our first CommitFest for 9.1 in July 2010,
    and that ran quite smoothly, though it was also a release-cycle
    overlap. One big difference this time is that Tom and Peter haven't
    participated in this CommitFest very much at all (and I've done less
    as well, due to other commitments), whereas they did last time around.
    So I think the real question is not "how much bandwidth do we have as
    a community?" but rather "what works for the key people who make the
    process function?" and maybe "how can we induce other people to make
    the kind of time commitment that Tom and Peter have in the past?".

    I think the fact that we've managed to get 18 patches committed - and
    will probably squeeze in a few more - despite Tom and Peter being busy
    is pretty good. But it certainly emphasizes the extent to which we
    depend on a relatively small number of contributors to do an awful lot
    of the work.

    --
    Robert Haas
    EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
    The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

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