Grokbase Groups Pig dev August 2010
FAQ
Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a
top level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of
Hadoop (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3C006AEA7C-8829-4788-AD7B-822396FA2E6B@yahoo-inc.com%3E
). At the time I voted against it (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E
), as did many others. However, I would like to restart that
discussion now.

I gave several reasons for voting against it :

First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig
would loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by
Hadoop members that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page
(as Hbase has). Also, obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop
get togethers such as the various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our
connection does not seem in danger.

Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community
we would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers
will have to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a
slightly extra burden on them. But they are already bearing this
burden, and whether or not the communities are governed by the same or
separate PMCs will not affect this.

Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all
Hadoop related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still
makes sense to me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out
of Hadoop.

In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the
intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it
has become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP
inside Hadoop. We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we
have sufficient votes to elect our committers and release our products.

Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache
projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a
TLP.

I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is
Yahoo heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees
we need to work on this. But we do have experienced committers in
three different organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient
base to to work on it as a TLP.

So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now
is a good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a
community of contributors and users that is growing both in numbers
and in diversity. We have a strong group of committers who I believe
are ready to take on leadership of the project and who will benefit
from being mentored by the larger Apache community.

Thoughts?

Alan.

Search Discussions

  • Dmitriy Ryaboy at Aug 17, 2010 at 12:00 am
    This sounds reasonable. +1.
    -D
    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Alan Gates wrote:

    Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a top
    level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of Hadoop (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3C006AEA7C-8829-4788-AD7B-822396FA2E6B@yahoo-inc.com%3E).
    At the time I voted against it (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E),
    as did many others. However, I would like to restart that discussion now.

    I gave several reasons for voting against it :

    First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig would
    loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by Hadoop members
    that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page (as Hbase has). Also,
    obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop get togethers such as the
    various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our connection does not seem in
    danger.

    Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community we
    would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers will have
    to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a slightly extra
    burden on them. But they are already bearing this burden, and whether or
    not the communities are governed by the same or separate PMCs will not
    affect this.

    Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all Hadoop
    related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still makes sense to
    me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out of Hadoop.

    In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the
    intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it has
    become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP inside Hadoop.
    We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we have sufficient
    votes to elect our committers and release our products.

    Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache
    projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a TLP.

    I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is Yahoo
    heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees we need to
    work on this. But we do have experienced committers in three different
    organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient base to to work on it as
    a TLP.

    So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now is a
    good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a community of
    contributors and users that is growing both in numbers and in diversity. We
    have a strong group of committers who I believe are ready to take on
    leadership of the project and who will benefit from being mentored by the
    larger Apache community.

    Thoughts?

    Alan.
  • Olga Natkovich at Aug 17, 2010 at 12:05 am
    +1

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dmitriy Ryaboy
    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:00 PM
    To: pig-dev@hadoop.apache.org
    Subject: Re: Restarting discussion on Pig as a TLP

    This sounds reasonable. +1.
    -D
    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Alan Gates wrote:

    Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a top
    level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of Hadoop (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3C006AEA7C-8829-4788-AD7B-822396FA2E6B@yahoo-inc.com%3E).
    At the time I voted against it (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E),
    as did many others. However, I would like to restart that discussion now.

    I gave several reasons for voting against it :

    First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig would
    loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by Hadoop members
    that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page (as Hbase has). Also,
    obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop get togethers such as the
    various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our connection does not seem in
    danger.

    Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community we
    would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers will have
    to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a slightly extra
    burden on them. But they are already bearing this burden, and whether or
    not the communities are governed by the same or separate PMCs will not
    affect this.

    Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all Hadoop
    related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still makes sense to
    me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out of Hadoop.

    In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the
    intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it has
    become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP inside Hadoop.
    We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we have sufficient
    votes to elect our committers and release our products.

    Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache
    projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a TLP.

    I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is Yahoo
    heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees we need to
    work on this. But we do have experienced committers in three different
    organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient base to to work on it as
    a TLP.

    So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now is a
    good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a community of
    contributors and users that is growing both in numbers and in diversity. We
    have a strong group of committers who I believe are ready to take on
    leadership of the project and who will benefit from being mentored by the
    larger Apache community.

    Thoughts?

    Alan.
  • Jeff Zhang at Aug 17, 2010 at 1:04 am
    Great, +1
    On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Olga Natkovich wrote:

    +1

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dmitriy Ryaboy
    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:00 PM
    To: pig-dev@hadoop.apache.org
    Subject: Re: Restarting discussion on Pig as a TLP

    This sounds reasonable. +1.
    -D
    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Alan Gates wrote:

    Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a top
    level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of Hadoop (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3C006AEA7C-8829-4788-AD7B-822396FA2E6B@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ).
    At the time I voted against it (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ),
    as did many others. However, I would like to restart that discussion now.
    I gave several reasons for voting against it :

    First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig would
    loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by Hadoop members
    that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page (as Hbase has). Also,
    obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop get togethers such as the
    various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our connection does not seem in
    danger.

    Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community we
    would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers will have
    to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a slightly extra
    burden on them. But they are already bearing this burden, and whether or
    not the communities are governed by the same or separate PMCs will not
    affect this.

    Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all Hadoop
    related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still makes sense to
    me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out of Hadoop.

    In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the
    intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it has
    become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP inside Hadoop.
    We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we have sufficient
    votes to elect our committers and release our products.

    Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache
    projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a TLP.
    I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is Yahoo
    heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees we need to
    work on this. But we do have experienced committers in three different
    organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient base to to work on it as
    a TLP.

    So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now is a
    good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a community of
    contributors and users that is growing both in numbers and in diversity. We
    have a strong group of committers who I believe are ready to take on
    leadership of the project and who will benefit from being mentored by the
    larger Apache community.

    Thoughts?

    Alan.


    --
    Best Regards

    Jeff Zhang
  • Jeff Hammerbacher at Aug 17, 2010 at 5:52 pm
    Would love to see Pig as a TLP. +1.
    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Jeff Zhang wrote:

    Great, +1
    On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Olga Natkovich wrote:

    +1

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dmitriy Ryaboy
    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:00 PM
    To: pig-dev@hadoop.apache.org
    Subject: Re: Restarting discussion on Pig as a TLP

    This sounds reasonable. +1.
    -D
    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Alan Gates wrote:

    Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a
    top
    level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of
    Hadoop
    (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3C006AEA7C-8829-4788-AD7B-822396FA2E6B@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ).
    At the time I voted against it (
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ),
    as did many others. However, I would like to restart that discussion now.
    I gave several reasons for voting against it :

    First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig
    would
    loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by Hadoop members
    that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page (as Hbase has). Also,
    obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop get togethers such as
    the
    various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our connection does not seem in
    danger.

    Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community
    we
    would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers will have
    to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a slightly extra
    burden on them. But they are already bearing this burden, and whether
    or
    not the communities are governed by the same or separate PMCs will not
    affect this.

    Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all
    Hadoop
    related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still makes
    sense
    to
    me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out of Hadoop.

    In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the
    intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it has
    become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP inside Hadoop.
    We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we have sufficient
    votes to elect our committers and release our products.

    Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache
    projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a TLP.
    I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is Yahoo
    heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees we need
    to
    work on this. But we do have experienced committers in three different
    organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient base to to work on
    it
    as
    a TLP.

    So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now
    is
    a
    good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a community of
    contributors and users that is growing both in numbers and in
    diversity.
    We
    have a strong group of committers who I believe are ready to take on
    leadership of the project and who will benefit from being mentored by
    the
    larger Apache community.

    Thoughts?

    Alan.


    --
    Best Regards

    Jeff Zhang
  • Daniel Dai at Aug 17, 2010 at 6:08 pm
    +1

    Jeff Hammerbacher wrote:
    Would love to see Pig as a TLP. +1.

    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Jeff Zhang wrote:

    Great, +1

    On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Olga Natkovich <olgan@yahoo-inc.com>
    wrote:

    +1

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dmitriy Ryaboy
    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 5:00 PM
    To: pig-dev@hadoop.apache.org
    Subject: Re: Restarting discussion on Pig as a TLP

    This sounds reasonable. +1.
    -D

    On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Alan Gates wrote:

    Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a
    top
    level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of
    Hadoop
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ),
    as did many others. However, I would like to restart that discussion now.
    I gave several reasons for voting against it :

    First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig
    would
    loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by Hadoop members
    that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page (as Hbase has). Also,
    obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop get togethers such as
    the
    various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our connection does not seem in
    danger.

    Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community
    we
    would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers will have
    to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a slightly extra
    burden on them. But they are already bearing this burden, and whether
    or
    not the communities are governed by the same or separate PMCs will not
    affect this.

    Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all
    Hadoop
    related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still makes
    sense
    to
    me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out of Hadoop.

    In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the
    intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it has
    become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP inside Hadoop.
    We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we have sufficient
    votes to elect our committers and release our products.

    Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache
    projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a TLP.
    I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is Yahoo
    heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees we need
    to
    work on this. But we do have experienced committers in three different
    organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient base to to work on
    it
    as
    a TLP.

    So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now
    is
    a
    good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a community of
    contributors and users that is growing both in numbers and in
    diversity.
    We
    have a strong group of committers who I believe are ready to take on
    leadership of the project and who will benefit from being mentored by
    the
    larger Apache community.

    Thoughts?

    Alan.
    --
    Best Regards

    Jeff Zhang
  • Santhosh Srinivasan at Aug 17, 2010 at 6:29 pm
    +1

    Very nice! I see that opinion has changed within a couple of quarters :) I am pasting references to my responses to Alan's initial proposal to make Pig a TLP. I am all for making Pig a TLP.

    References:

    1. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201004.mbox/%3C088A0B616C8C1D4787DD686C6922A72A03161728@SNV-EXVS10.ds.corp.yahoo.com%3E
    2. http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201004.mbox/%3C088A0B616C8C1D4787DD686C6922A72A03161767@SNV-EXVS10.ds.corp.yahoo.com%3E

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Alan Gates
    Sent: Monday, August 16, 2010 1:46 PM
    To: pig-dev@hadoop.apache.org
    Subject: Restarting discussion on Pig as a TLP

    Five months ago I started a discussion on whether Pig should become a top level project (TLP) at Apache instead of remaining a subproject of Hadoop (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3C006AEA7C-8829-4788-AD7B-822396FA2E6B@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ). At the time I voted against it (http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-pig-dev/201003.mbox/%3CF1484964-E774-48B7-9D45-6E57C7B09251@yahoo-inc.com%3E
    ), as did many others. However, I would like to restart that discussion now.

    I gave several reasons for voting against it :

    First, I was worried that by loosing our connection to Hadoop, Pig would loose its source of new users. I have since been assured by Hadoop members that Pig would be free to keep our tab on their page (as Hbase has). Also, obviously we would still be welcomed at Hadoop get togethers such as the various HUGs, Hadoop Summits, etc. So our connection does not seem in danger.

    Two, I was concerned that by not being members of the Hadoop community we would loose influence with Hadoop. It is true that Pig developers will have to stay active in the Hadoop community, which will put a slightly extra burden on them. But they are already bearing this burden, and whether or not the communities are governed by the same or separate PMCs will not affect this.

    Finally, I said that philosophically it makes sense to me that all Hadoop related projects should stay under one umbrella. This still makes sense to me, and I do see this as a downside of Pig moving out of Hadoop.

    In addition to the above, a few other things have happened over the intervening months to cause me to reconsider. Most importantly, it has become clear to me that Pig is operating as if it were a TLP inside Hadoop. We have four members on the Hadoop PMC, which means we have sufficient votes to elect our committers and release our products.

    Also, several Hadoop PMC members who have long experience in Apache projects have made clear to me that they believe Pig is ready to be a TLP.

    I was also concerned about diversity in our PMC, since our project is Yahoo heavy. Given that 10 out of 12 committers are Yahoo employees we need to work on this. But we do have experienced committers in three different organizations, and I think this gives us sufficient base to to work on it as a TLP.

    So, in summary, I have switched my view on this from "not yet" to "now is a good time". I think Pig is ready to be a TLP. We have a community of contributors and users that is growing both in numbers and in diversity. We have a strong group of committers who I believe are ready to take on leadership of the project and who will benefit from being mentored by the larger Apache community.

    Thoughts?

    Alan.

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postedAug 16, '10 at 8:47p
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