FAQ
Hey there everyone.

I haven't had time much to work on my cart program recently but I was
just thinking about abandoned carts and can't figure something out
completely.

How do you determine if a shopping cart has been abandoned or not?

What I am thinking is that when the customer adds an item to their cart
an entry is made in a db table. That means a cart is created, and that's
about as far as I get. ;P

Actually that's not totally true, so let me continue.

The only reason I can think of to determine if a cart has been abandoned
or not would be based on how old the shopping cart is. That is, when it
was last modified (had a product added/modified/deleted from it). But
who's the say that the customer that created that cart is not going to
come back to the site at some point and then checkout?

So then we have to decide how long an unmodified cart is considered
abandoned as opposed to active. Let's make that time 1 day (24-hours).

Now let's imagine that there are four abandoned carts in the database.
Now what do we do? Does the program automatically delete the carts after
a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days? OR do we allow the
merchant to manually delete the carts at any point they want? And how do
you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do I take a survey of
the db evey week to see how many abandoned carts I have and then average
those results?

The problem I see is that a cart could be considered abandoned for 4
days but then become active again because the customer has come back to
it and has added more products to it. In this case I'd say it was never
abandoned in the first place and in which case it would be innacurate to
include it your abandoned cart total.

WHAT TO DO?

A BIT CONFUSED I AM!



Thanks,
Chris.

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  • Anas Mughal at Dec 4, 2003 at 9:17 pm
    This looks like a business decision.
    Your business anaylist could help answer your question.



    Chris W. Parker wrote:
    Hey there everyone.

    I haven't had time much to work on my cart program recently but I was
    just thinking about abandoned carts and can't figure something out
    completely.

    How do you determine if a shopping cart has been abandoned or not?

    What I am thinking is that when the customer adds an item to their cart
    an entry is made in a db table. That means a cart is created, and that's
    about as far as I get. ;P

    Actually that's not totally true, so let me continue.

    The only reason I can think of to determine if a cart has been abandoned
    or not would be based on how old the shopping cart is. That is, when it
    was last modified (had a product added/modified/deleted from it). But
    who's the say that the customer that created that cart is not going to
    come back to the site at some point and then checkout?

    So then we have to decide how long an unmodified cart is considered
    abandoned as opposed to active. Let's make that time 1 day (24-hours).

    Now let's imagine that there are four abandoned carts in the database.
    Now what do we do? Does the program automatically delete the carts after
    a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days? OR do we allow the
    merchant to manually delete the carts at any point they want? And how do
    you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do I take a survey of
    the db evey week to see how many abandoned carts I have and then average
    those results?

    The problem I see is that a cart could be considered abandoned for 4
    days but then become active again because the customer has come back to
    it and has added more products to it. In this case I'd say it was never
    abandoned in the first place and in which case it would be innacurate to
    include it your abandoned cart total.

    WHAT TO DO?

    A BIT CONFUSED I AM!



    Thanks,
    Chris.

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  • Richard Davey at Dec 4, 2003 at 9:20 pm
    Hello Chris,

    Thursday, December 4, 2003, 9:09:57 PM, you wrote:

    CWP> The problem I see is that a cart could be considered abandoned for 4
    CWP> days but then become active again because the customer has come back to
    CWP> it and has added more products to it. In this case I'd say it was never
    CWP> abandoned in the first place and in which case it would be innacurate to
    CWP> include it your abandoned cart total.

    Not that it answers all of your questions - but Amazon persist your
    shopping basket for AGES. Infact I do wonder if it ever times out,
    I've known them last a few months before.

    Mind you - that's because they knew who I was.

    You ought to group your baskets into "anonymous" and "owned". Keep the
    owned ones for weeks, if not months, and the anonymous ones shorter.
    1 week at the most?

    --
    Best regards,
    Richard mailto:rich@launchcode.co.uk
  • Eric Wood at Dec 4, 2003 at 9:23 pm

    Chris W. Parker wrote:
    Now what do we do? Does the program automatically delete the carts
    after a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days? OR do we
    allow the merchant to manually delete the carts at any point they
    want? And how do you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do
    Well, you don't what item to linger too long as prices change. If a user
    add something to their cart and comes back days later, there may be a
    different price or the item may have been discontinued, etc.. So you user
    may end up getting the wrong price unless you have checkout logic to correct
    pricing.

    I say, if an incomplete cart hasn't been touched more than 2 hours *and* you
    do cleanup processing at 3:00am, then that'll be safe enough, especially if
    you have few international orders.
    -Eric Wood
  • Robert Cummings at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:15 pm

    On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 16:22, Eric Wood wrote:
    Chris W. Parker wrote:
    Now what do we do? Does the program automatically delete the carts
    after a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days? OR do we
    allow the merchant to manually delete the carts at any point they
    want? And how do you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do
    Well, you don't what item to linger too long as prices change. If a user
    add something to their cart and comes back days later, there may be a
    different price or the item may have been discontinued, etc.. So you user
    may end up getting the wrong price unless you have checkout logic to correct
    pricing.

    I say, if an incomplete cart hasn't been touched more than 2 hours *and* you
    do cleanup processing at 3:00am, then that'll be safe enough, especially if
    you have few international orders.
    -Eric Wood
    Since the shopping cart hasn't been checked out, couldn't the shopping
    cart just keep track of inventory IDs and quantity, and finalize price
    at checkout time. Thus the prices would be up-to-date even if the user
    returned 5 months later. This could also handle products no longer
    carried, since hte ID would become invalid and it could automatically be
    removed form the shopping cart when the user reconnects. Chances are
    after 5 months they don't remember what they ordered anyways.

    Cheers,
    Rob.
    --
    .------------------------------------------------------------.
    InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com |
    :------------------------------------------------------------:
    An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting |
    a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services |
    such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn |
    also provides an extremely flexible architecture for |
    creating re-usable components quickly and easily. |
    `------------------------------------------------------------'
  • Justin Patrin at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:29 pm
    Of course, this makes problems when you're adding promotional product to
    the cart, which should have a seperate price. Add to this that the
    customer may have special pricing (think Business to Business). So you
    have to have an update mechanism for promotions and the extra price
    lists. Do-able, but it can get hairy.

    Robert Cummings wrote:
    On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 16:22, Eric Wood wrote:

    Chris W. Parker wrote:
    Now what do we do? Does the program automatically delete the carts
    after a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days? OR do we
    allow the merchant to manually delete the carts at any point they
    want? And how do you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do
    Well, you don't what item to linger too long as prices change. If a user
    add something to their cart and comes back days later, there may be a
    different price or the item may have been discontinued, etc.. So you user
    may end up getting the wrong price unless you have checkout logic to correct
    pricing.

    I say, if an incomplete cart hasn't been touched more than 2 hours *and* you
    do cleanup processing at 3:00am, then that'll be safe enough, especially if
    you have few international orders.
    -Eric Wood

    Since the shopping cart hasn't been checked out, couldn't the shopping
    cart just keep track of inventory IDs and quantity, and finalize price
    at checkout time. Thus the prices would be up-to-date even if the user
    returned 5 months later. This could also handle products no longer
    carried, since hte ID would become invalid and it could automatically be
    removed form the shopping cart when the user reconnects. Chances are
    after 5 months they don't remember what they ordered anyways.

    Cheers,
    Rob.
  • Jay Blanchard at Dec 4, 2003 at 9:24 pm
    [snip]
    ...ton's o thoughts
    [/snip]

    I am making an assumption that you are using sessions for your shoppers.
    If this is the case then the cart would be abandoned if/when the session
    expires. If you are not using sessions then I think 24 hours would be on
    the longish side of acceptable.

    In another thread on another list I pointed out to another person
    designing a cart that the items in the cart are removed from inventory
    while they are in the cart even though no check-out has occured. If the
    cart is abandoned I want to return those items to the shelf as quickly
    as possible, making them available for other shoppers. A lot of folks
    get this wrong IMHO...they do not remove the item from inventory when it
    is placed in the cart, they do it at check-out. This could cause
    concerns if the items in question are popular.
  • Robert Cummings at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:54 pm

    On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 16:24, Jay Blanchard wrote:
    [snip]
    ...ton's o thoughts
    [/snip]

    I am making an assumption that you are using sessions for your shoppers.
    If this is the case then the cart would be abandoned if/when the session
    expires. If you are not using sessions then I think 24 hours would be on
    the longish side of acceptable.

    In another thread on another list I pointed out to another person
    designing a cart that the items in the cart are removed from inventory
    while they are in the cart even though no check-out has occured. If the
    cart is abandoned I want to return those items to the shelf as quickly
    as possible, making them available for other shoppers. A lot of folks
    get this wrong IMHO...they do not remove the item from inventory when it
    is placed in the cart, they do it at check-out. This could cause
    concerns if the items in question are popular.
    I wouold just leave the items on the shelf until the cart has been
    checked out. If the item becomes unavailable the checkout code can
    inform the user. This way you maximize the chance your product gets
    sold. This is also the way the online grocer I use works, except they
    allow you to authorize them to do an automatic substitution with
    something almost equivalent... so maybe 2 litres of milk instead of 4.

    Cheers,
    Rob.
    --
    .------------------------------------------------------------.
    InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com |
    :------------------------------------------------------------:
    An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting |
    a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services |
    such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn |
    also provides an extremely flexible architecture for |
    creating re-usable components quickly and easily. |
    `------------------------------------------------------------'
  • Justin French at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:20 pm

    On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 08:09 AM, Chris W. Parker wrote:

    I haven't had time much to work on my cart program recently but I was
    just thinking about abandoned carts and can't figure something out
    completely.

    How do you determine if a shopping cart has been abandoned or not?

    What I am thinking is that when the customer adds an item to their cart
    an entry is made in a db table. That means a cart is created, and
    that's
    about as far as I get. ;P
    Well, I'd have SESSION based shopping carts, rather than DB based carts
    (even though the session may be DB powered). To my way of thinking, if
    a user abandons their session, then they abandon their shopping cart --
    just like if I leave my shopping cart in isle three and walk out of the
    supermarket.

    However, for logged in, registered members, I'd have options to:

    - autosave a shopping cart (i'd store it indefinitely -- until the user
    is deleted, or perhaps a year)
    - save a SC for later
    Actually that's not totally true, so let me continue.

    The only reason I can think of to determine if a cart has been
    abandoned
    or not would be based on how old the shopping cart is. That is, when it
    was last modified (had a product added/modified/deleted from it). But
    who's the say that the customer that created that cart is not going to
    come back to the site at some point and then checkout?

    So then we have to decide how long an unmodified cart is considered
    abandoned as opposed to active. Let's make that time 1 day (24-hours).
    If you owned a grocery store, you'd have to decide how long you'd leave
    an abandoned cart in isle 3 -- 5 minutes? a week? This is entirely a
    decision up to you and your client. If you have 1000's of orders every
    hour, obviously storing every abandoned cart for a year is not an
    option. Why couldn't it just be a configurable option in the app?
    Now let's imagine that there are four abandoned carts in the database.
    Now what do we do? Does the program automatically delete the carts
    after
    a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days? OR do we allow the
    merchant to manually delete the carts at any point they want? And how
    do
    you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do I take a survey of
    the db evey week to see how many abandoned carts I have and then
    average
    those results?
    Run a cron job once a day (or once an hour if the site has enough
    traffic to warrant it) clearing out abandoned order (that you
    determined about would be delete-able after a hour/day/week/year). The
    cron job should take note of how many were deleted, so that you can
    establish statistics.
    The problem I see is that a cart could be considered abandoned for 4
    days but then become active again because the customer has come back to
    it and has added more products to it. In this case I'd say it was never
    abandoned in the first place and in which case it would be innacurate
    to
    include it your abandoned cart total.
    I personally would trash the cart with the session (sessions are
    cleaned up by PHP automatically), but let the logged in user auto-save
    or manually-save the cart for a later date. Next time they log-in, the
    cart gets loaded from the DB, prices and availability get updated, and
    the user can continue.


    Justin French
  • Chris W. Parker at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:28 pm
    Anas Mughal
    on Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:23 PM said:
    This looks like a business decision.
    Your business anaylist could help answer your question.
    Yes, and so far they've all given good ideas.



    Thanks.
  • Chris W. Parker at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:31 pm
    Jay Blanchard
    on Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:25 PM said:
    In another thread on another list I pointed out to another person
    designing a cart that the items in the cart are removed from inventory
    while they are in the cart even though no check-out has occured. If
    the cart is abandoned I want to return those items to the shelf as
    quickly as possible, making them available for other shoppers. A lot
    of folks get this wrong IMHO...they do not remove the item from
    inventory when it is placed in the cart, they do it at check-out.
    This could cause concerns if the items in question are popular.
    I brought up this same issue recently with some coworkers and everyone
    (except me) thought it would be a good idea to do it at checkout. I took
    your approach which is to remove it when the customer "takes it off the
    shelf" so to speak.

    Would it be too complicated to say "5 in inventory, 2 of those are in
    customer shopping carts"? Or something along those lines?



    Chris.

    p.s. Does anyone know of any mailing lists that deal with e-commerce and
    shopping cart design (code/implementation/logic/etc.)???
    --
    Don't like reformatting your Outlook replies? Now there's relief!
    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/
  • David T-G at Dec 5, 2003 at 1:40 pm
    Chris, et al --

    ...and then Chris W. Parker said...
    %
    ...
    %
    % Would it be too complicated to say "5 in inventory, 2 of those are in
    % customer shopping carts"? Or something along those lines?

    I shouldn't think so; it would be a bit of extra work, but not a big
    deal. If you did, then I'd have a notice somewhere that an item in an
    old cart might get sold out from under the buyer (especially if there's
    any real or implied guarantee of availability).

    I would imagine that Amazon, from another example, has at least this
    level or perhaps even doesn't note the stock as "gone". Surely it would
    kill them if I ordered 432 copies of my buddy's book, waited until they
    said that they had stock again, and then repeated the process.


    %
    % Chris.
    %
    % p.s. Does anyone know of any mailing lists that deal with e-commerce and
    % shopping cart design (code/implementation/logic/etc.)???

    I don't, but if you find one I'd be interested.


    HTH & HAND

    :-D
    --
    David T-G * There is too much animal courage in
    (play) davidtg@justpickone.org * society and not sufficient moral courage.
    (work) davidtgwork@justpickone.org -- Mary Baker Eddy, "Science and Health"
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  • Chris W. Parker at Dec 4, 2003 at 10:35 pm
    Justin French
    on Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:20 PM said:
    If you owned a grocery store, you'd have to decide how long you'd
    leave an abandoned cart in isle 3 -- 5 minutes? a week? This is
    entirely a decision up to you and your client.
    <slaps_forehead/>

    ;)
    If you have 1000's of
    orders every hour, obviously storing every abandoned cart for a year
    is not an option. Why couldn't it just be a configurable option in
    the app?
    That is an excellent idea and one that I hadn't thought of.
    I personally would trash the cart with the session (sessions are
    cleaned up by PHP automatically), but let the logged in user auto-save
    or manually-save the cart for a later date.
    Yeah the session files are cleaned up automatically but your application
    doesn't know that. You'd have to specifically tell your application (via
    a cron job??) when the session get cleaned up and that it (the
    application) should remove all the old carts.

    Is there something I don't know about (very possible!)? I mean, even if
    the users session file is deleted, how do you tell the app. to follow
    suit and delete it's ASIDE from setting a cron job?



    Chris.
    --
    Don't like reformatting your Outlook replies? Now there's relief!
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  • Justin French at Dec 4, 2003 at 11:08 pm

    On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 09:35 AM, Chris W. Parker wrote:

    Yeah the session files are cleaned up automatically but your
    application
    doesn't know that. You'd have to specifically tell your application
    (via
    a cron job??) when the session get cleaned up and that it (the
    application) should remove all the old carts.

    Is there something I don't know about (very possible!)? I mean, even if
    the users session file is deleted, how do you tell the app. to follow
    suit and delete it's ASIDE from setting a cron job?
    Rather than storing the shopping cart in a DB, store the cart in the
    session. When the session dies, so does the cart.
    When/if they choose to save it, it THEN gets ported into a database.

    Justin French
  • Chris W. Parker at Dec 4, 2003 at 11:10 pm
    Justin French
    on Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:48 PM said:
    Rather than storing the shopping cart in a DB, store the cart in the
    session. When the session dies, so does the cart.
    When/if they choose to save it, it THEN gets ported into a database.
    Aaahhhhh...! This makes sense.



    Thanks,
    Chris.
    --
    Don't like reformatting your Outlook replies? Now there's relief!
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  • Justin Patrin at Dec 5, 2003 at 1:09 am
    Of course, now you have to deal with putting inventory back on the shelf
    when the session expires....and you have no way of knowing when that
    would happen unless you're storing *something*.

    Chris W. Parker wrote:
    Justin French on Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:48 PM said:

    Rather than storing the shopping cart in a DB, store the cart in the
    session. When the session dies, so does the cart.
    When/if they choose to save it, it THEN gets ported into a database.

    Aaahhhhh...! This makes sense.



    Thanks,
    Chris.
    --
    Don't like reformatting your Outlook replies? Now there's relief!
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  • Jon Bennett at Dec 5, 2003 at 1:12 am
    why not only reduce the stock once a sale has gone through ???

    Cheers,

    Jon


    jon bennett | jon@jben.net
    new media designer / developer
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    J b e n . n e t

    91 Gloucester Rd, Trowbridge, Wilts, BA14 0AD
    t: +44 (0) 1225 341039 w: http://www.jben.net/

    On 5 Dec 2003, at 01:09, Justin Patrin wrote:

    Of course, now you have to deal with putting inventory back on the
    shelf when the session expires....and you have no way of knowing when
    that would happen unless you're storing *something*.

    Chris W. Parker wrote:
    Justin French > on Thursday, December 04, 2003 2:48 PM said:
    Rather than storing the shopping cart in a DB, store the cart in the
    session. When the session dies, so does the cart.
    When/if they choose to save it, it THEN gets ported into a database.
    Aaahhhhh...! This makes sense.
    Thanks,
    Chris.
    --
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  • Justin French at Dec 5, 2003 at 1:47 am

    On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 12:09 PM, Justin Patrin wrote:

    Of course, now you have to deal with putting inventory back on the
    shelf when the session expires....and you have no way of knowing when
    that would happen unless you're storing *something*.
    A good point, if that's the way he wants to do things...

    In which case, SC needs to be stored SOMEWHERE (DB), and a cron job
    garbage cleanout could take place every 1/15/30/60 minutes to remove
    SC's without matching sessions, or something similar.

    Justin
  • Jay Blanchard at Dec 5, 2003 at 12:38 pm
    [snip]
    Of course, now you have to deal with putting inventory back on the
    shelf when the session expires....and you have no way of knowing when
    that would happen unless you're storing *something*.
    A good point, if that's the way he wants to do things...

    In which case, SC needs to be stored SOMEWHERE (DB), and a cron job
    garbage cleanout could take place every 1/15/30/60 minutes to remove
    SC's without matching sessions, or something similar.
    [/snip]

    How about a session identified limbo table?
  • David T-G at Dec 5, 2003 at 1:37 pm
    Chris, et al --

    ...and then Chris W. Parker said...
    %
    % Hey there everyone.

    Hiya!


    %
    ...
    % How do you determine if a shopping cart has been abandoned or not?
    ...
    %
    % The problem I see is that a cart could be considered abandoned for 4
    % days but then become active again because the customer has come back to
    % it and has added more products to it. In this case I'd say it was never
    % abandoned in the first place and in which case it would be innacurate to
    % include it your abandoned cart total.

    If you go with the ideas of keeping the cart in a session (and not
    decrementing the stock until purchase time) then it's easy; when the
    session goes away the cart does and it's abandoned. Have a simple table
    of all carts created or even a counter of carts and reference that
    against completed carts to get your ratio.

    If you go with the ideas of storing the cart in the DB, then either
    implement the simple table above for your count as carts get deleted
    or just add an 'abandoned' field and keep the cart forever or perhaps
    combine the two and note old carts that are due to be wiped as such and
    include that analysis in the math against the cart_total_count table.


    HTH & HAND

    :-D
    --
    David T-G * There is too much animal courage in
    (play) davidtg@justpickone.org * society and not sufficient moral courage.
    (work) davidtgwork@justpickone.org -- Mary Baker Eddy, "Science and Health"
    http://justpickone.org/davidtg/ Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg!
  • Daniel Guerrier at Dec 11, 2003 at 5:07 pm
    Why not just maintain carts for users with accounts
    and maintain them indefinately. Users with out
    accounts can have there carts stored in a session and
    will become invalid when the session expires.
    --- "Chris W. Parker" wrote:
    Hey there everyone.

    I haven't had time much to work on my cart program
    recently but I was
    just thinking about abandoned carts and can't figure
    something out
    completely.

    How do you determine if a shopping cart has been
    abandoned or not?

    What I am thinking is that when the customer adds an
    item to their cart
    an entry is made in a db table. That means a cart is
    created, and that's
    about as far as I get. ;P

    Actually that's not totally true, so let me
    continue.

    The only reason I can think of to determine if a
    cart has been abandoned
    or not would be based on how old the shopping cart
    is. That is, when it
    was last modified (had a product
    added/modified/deleted from it). But
    who's the say that the customer that created that
    cart is not going to
    come back to the site at some point and then
    checkout?

    So then we have to decide how long an unmodified
    cart is considered
    abandoned as opposed to active. Let's make that time
    1 day (24-hours).

    Now let's imagine that there are four abandoned
    carts in the database.
    Now what do we do? Does the program automatically
    delete the carts after
    a certain (definable) period of time, i.e. 7 days?
    OR do we allow the
    merchant to manually delete the carts at any point
    they want? And how do
    you determine your abandoned cart rate? That is, do
    I take a survey of
    the db evey week to see how many abandoned carts I
    have and then average
    those results?

    The problem I see is that a cart could be considered
    abandoned for 4
    days but then become active again because the
    customer has come back to
    it and has added more products to it. In this case
    I'd say it was never
    abandoned in the first place and in which case it
    would be innacurate to
    include it your abandoned cart total.

    WHAT TO DO?

    A BIT CONFUSED I AM!



    Thanks,
    Chris.

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  • Chris W. Parker at Dec 11, 2003 at 5:11 pm
    Daniel Guerrier
    on Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:08 AM said:
    Why not just maintain carts for users with accounts
    and maintain them indefinately. Users with out
    accounts can have there carts stored in a session and
    will become invalid when the session expires.
    Not a bad idea, in fact I think I like it (as it's been suggested
    before). I will probably use it for the rewrite.



    Chris.
    --
    Don't like reformatting your Outlook replies? Now there's relief!
    http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/

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