FAQ
Greetings translators and all-

In the coming days I will be updating the translations (phpdoc-
{lang}) so that the translations will build again, and from there we
can resume the daily doc builds. Among other things, the new
reference structure did the following:

- Changed constants.xml from section to an appendix
- Split reference.xml into book.xml/setup.xml/etc

This process will go as follows:

1. If a translation is caught up and builds, skip it
2. If a translation is actively catching up, skip it
3. Update or delete constants.xml
4. Update or delete reference.xml
5. Once done, evaluate #2

constants.xml:
==============
Each constants.xml file will be evaluated, and will (along with the
EN-Revision tag) be updated if the changes requires XML Markup only.
Otherwise, the file will be deleted. There may be a few bugs since
part of this process is automated, and I am sorry for that. The main
change here is section-->appendix.

reference.xml:
==============
This is more difficult since it has changed drastically. Most of
these will be deleted, so instead the EN version will be used thus
allowing the translation to build along side EN. Translated entities
and other files (like /functions/*, ini.xml, etc.) will still be kept/
used.

How I'm testing a translation:
==============
$ cd phpdoc-all
$ php configure.php --with-lang=$lang
$ phd -d .manual.xml -t bightml

Note: CVS history for deleted files is preserved and readily
available in the Attic.
Note: If you would rather have me not touch your translation, please
speak up soon.
Note: Please do not CC every doc-lang list, unless it's relevant to all.

Regards,
Philip

Search Discussions

  • Hannes Magnusson at Mar 28, 2008 at 11:24 am

    On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:23 AM, Philip Olson wrote:
    Greetings translators and all-

    In the coming days I will be updating the translations (phpdoc-
    {lang}) so that the translations will build again, and from there we
    can resume the daily doc builds.
    What is the status on this?

    We've been waiting now for over 3months to push out new builds..
    I would really really like to push out new builds on weekly basis as
    of next Friday.

    Unless anyone objects then here is my plan:
    All translations that do _not_ build by Friday will be _removed_ from phpweb.
    All translations that _do_ build will be built and pushed out to mirrors.

    Every week all translations will be rebuilt and pushed out.
    If a translation suddenly starts building, it will be pushed out to mirrors.

    -Hannes
  • Hartmut Holzgraefe at Mar 28, 2008 at 11:31 am

    Hannes Magnusson wrote:
    On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:23 AM, Philip Olson wrote:
    Greetings translators and all-

    In the coming days I will be updating the translations (phpdoc-
    {lang}) so that the translations will build again, and from there we
    can resume the daily doc builds.
    What is the status on this?
    phpdoc-de conversion is complete, no idea about the others ...

    --
    Hartmut Holzgraefe, Manager of Support, EMEA .
    Email: <hartmut@mysql.com> Skype: hartmut.holzgraefe

    See us at the MySQL User Conference 2008: http://mysqluc.com/

    Hauptsitz: MySQL GmbH, Dachauer Str.37, 80335 München
    Geschäftsführer: Kaj Arnö - HRB München 162140
  • Philip Olson at Mar 28, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    On 28 Mar 2008, at 04:23, Hannes Magnusson wrote:
    On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:23 AM, Philip Olson wrote:
    Greetings translators and all-

    In the coming days I will be updating the translations (phpdoc-
    {lang}) so that the translations will build again, and from there we
    can resume the daily doc builds.
    What is the status on this?
    It's chugging along. I'm having trouble getting over the guilt of
    deleting content but am slowly overcoming it. Many active ones build
    so far. FR is catching up on its own. BG, DE, JA, PT_BR, and RU all
    caught up on their own. I updated several others to built too, and am
    about to delete 99 reference.xml files in ES now. :O Do note that the
    PRE_REF_CLEANUP CVS tag is used before these type of changes/
    deletions, and all deleted files are available in the CVS Attic too.
    We've been waiting now for over 3months to push out new builds..
    I would really really like to push out new builds on weekly basis as
    of next Friday.
    For the longest time your opinion was to push out the builds when PHP
    5.3 was released. Not sure what happened three months ago but
    regardless yes, it's a problem that we aren't building. However, I
    don't think a strict timeline is doable but see below.
    Unless anyone objects then here is my plan:
    All translations that do _not_ build by Friday will be _removed_
    from phpweb.
    All translations that _do_ build will be built and pushed out to
    mirrors.
    We're not quite there yet. I urge people to come up with ideas to help
    smooth this process. One idea is to add an "Other" option in the
    language select box that if selected opens a page explaining the
    situation, including information on how to help translate and why so
    many languages suddenly disappeared. Also, we can keep all languages
    (however old they may be) on the doc dev server (docs.php.net) ...

    As for phpweb, I count about 11/31 as at least semi-active, whereas
    the rest inactive. The 11:

    [en] => English (builds)
    [bg] => Bulgarian (builds)
    [pt_BR] => Brazilian Portuguese (builds)
    [fr] => French (catching up)
    [de] => German (builds)
    [it] => Italian
    [ja] => Japanese (builds)
    [pl] => Polish
    [ro] => Romanian
    [ru] => Russian (builds)
    [es] => Spanish

    I think we can get all these to build by next Friday, mark the rest as
    inactive in phpweb, as long as an idea like "Other" is implemented.
    And as other translations become active again, they become active
    within phpweb. And by phpweb we mean show up (rsynced) to php.net
    mirrors.
    Every week all translations will be rebuilt and pushed out.
    If a translation suddenly starts building, it will be pushed out to
    mirrors.

    Sometime here all translations will build, but that doesn't mean they
    are up to date. Granted it can be debated if mixing "if they build
    since the big change" and "taking dead translations offline" but it
    seems like the perfect time. All translations should build so new
    translators can work on them, but most should remain offline until the
    appropriate time.

    Regards,
    Philip
  • Hannes Magnusson at Mar 28, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
    On 28 Mar 2008, at 04:23, Hannes Magnusson wrote:
    We've been waiting now for over 3months to push out new builds..
    I would really really like to push out new builds on weekly basis as
    of next Friday.
    For the longest time your opinion was to push out the builds when PHP
    5.3 was released. Not sure what happened three months ago but
    regardless yes, it's a problem that we aren't building. However, I
    don't think a strict timeline is doable but see below.
    15days was to small window. Since I thought 5.3 was somewhere around
    the corner it sounded just as good as any other idea to roll the docs
    with 5.3. I however never got any feedback on that idea
    (http://php.markmail.org/message/ib2x6pwkz533a7gb) and 5.3 is nowhere
    near a release.

    I think we do need a strict timeline. Just see what happened with the
    loose timeline, "noone" is doing anything and documentation fixes
    since last November can't be pushed out because we are waiting for
    dead translations, which noone is working on, to build.
    Unless anyone objects then here is my plan:
    All translations that do _not_ build by Friday will be _removed_
    from phpweb.
    All translations that _do_ build will be built and pushed out to
    mirrors.
    We're not quite there yet. I urge people to come up with ideas to help
    smooth this process. One idea is to add an "Other" option in the
    language select box that if selected opens a page explaining the
    situation, including information on how to help translate and why so
    A good chunk of translation "requests" to phpdoc@ and php-webmaster@
    go unanswered and most of the translation lists are dead, you think we
    suddenly start to care because there is yet another page telling
    people to mail the lists?
    I think we can get all these to build by next Friday, mark the rest as
    inactive in phpweb, as long as an idea like "Other" is implemented.
    http://php.markmail.org/message/q3ezv3w5nd2a2asf
    Can we please start taking some actions rather then discuss these
    things to death again?

    All I want is to push out manual updates with regular intervals, not
    twice a year, and I want completely useless translations gone so they
    don't lie to our users with bogus or incomplete information.

    seems like the perfect time. All translations should build so new
    translators can work on them,
    I completely disagree. There is absolutely no point in wasting anyones
    time to get translations like Arabic to build.
    It hasn't built for years - and there hasn't been a commit there for
    even more years.
    That translation is completely dead, and wasting anyones time trying
    to get it to build is flat out wrong.
    It is without a doubt lot easier to start from scratch.

    Same applies to most of the other translations that haven't been
    touched for years.
    I dare you to try one file. Any file, any file at all. Here is one
    easy for you: phpdoc/en/language/functions.xml
    Now pick a translation. Any translation. Lets say Spanish. It has had
    some commits over the years and is in your semi-active-list.
    http://cvs.php.net/viewvc.cgi/phpdoc/en/language/functions.xml?r1=1.41&r2=1.69&view=patch

    Do you honestly think its easier to update the file rather than rewrite it?

    -Hannes
  • Philip Olson at Mar 28, 2008 at 8:01 pm

    On 28 Mar 2008, at 10:02, Hannes Magnusson wrote:
    On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
    On 28 Mar 2008, at 04:23, Hannes Magnusson wrote:
    We've been waiting now for over 3months to push out new builds..
    I would really really like to push out new builds on weekly basis as
    of next Friday.
    For the longest time your opinion was to push out the builds when PHP
    5.3 was released. Not sure what happened three months ago but
    regardless yes, it's a problem that we aren't building. However, I
    don't think a strict timeline is doable but see below.
    15days was to small window. Since I thought 5.3 was somewhere around
    the corner it sounded just as good as any other idea to roll the docs
    with 5.3. I however never got any feedback on that idea
    (http://php.markmail.org/message/ib2x6pwkz533a7gb) and 5.3 is nowhere
    near a release.

    I think we do need a strict timeline. Just see what happened with the
    loose timeline, "noone" is doing anything and documentation fixes
    since last November can't be pushed out because we are waiting for
    dead translations, which noone is working on, to build.
    We are miscommunicating.

    Several translations now build, some of which were updated in the last
    month or two. Others are catching up. It's a minority of total
    translations, but this is our reality.
    Unless anyone objects then here is my plan:
    All translations that do _not_ build by Friday will be _removed_
    from phpweb.
    All translations that _do_ build will be built and pushed out to
    mirrors.
    We're not quite there yet. I urge people to come up with ideas to
    help
    smooth this process. One idea is to add an "Other" option in the
    language select box that if selected opens a page explaining the
    situation, including information on how to help translate and why so
    A good chunk of translation "requests" to phpdoc@ and php-webmaster@
    go unanswered and most of the translation lists are dead, you think we
    suddenly start to care because there is yet another page telling
    people to mail the lists?
    This page is for both users of the PHP Manual as well as translators.
    Yes, people do care. It is to explain why [suddenly] 2/3 of the
    translations seemingly disappeared, and also offers yet another path
    for people to find themselves helping the PHP project. Writing such a
    page is worth it, doesn't hurt, I'll write it.
    I think we can get all these to build by next Friday, mark the rest
    as
    inactive in phpweb, as long as an idea like "Other" is implemented.
    http://php.markmail.org/message/q3ezv3w5nd2a2asf
    Can we please start taking some actions rather then discuss these
    things to death again?
    That all changed when the massive new reference structure started to
    gain steam which caused every translation to be outdated and no longer
    build. However, not sure why I seemingly disappeared from that
    thread... sorry everyone about that. But today we are speaking about
    taking action.
    All I want is to push out manual updates with regular intervals, not
    twice a year, and I want completely useless translations gone so they
    don't lie to our users with bogus or incomplete information.
    Everyone here wants the manual to build at least weekly. Earlier today
    I proposed 11 translations for us to have online, whereas the rest go
    offline. Doing so means weekly builds again, starting a week from now.
    seems like the perfect time. All translations should build so new
    translators can work on them,
    I completely disagree. There is absolutely no point in wasting anyones
    time to get translations like Arabic to build.
    It hasn't built for years - and there hasn't been a commit there for
    even more years.
    That translation is completely dead, and wasting anyones time trying
    to get it to build is flat out wrong.
    It is without a doubt lot easier to start from scratch.

    Same applies to most of the other translations that haven't been
    touched for years.
    I dare you to try one file. Any file, any file at all. Here is one
    easy for you: phpdoc/en/language/functions.xml
    Now pick a translation. Any translation. Lets say Spanish. It has had
    some commits over the years and is in your semi-active-list.
    http://cvs.php.net/viewvc.cgi/phpdoc/en/language/functions.xml?r1=1.41&r2=1.69&view=patch
    The idea is to focus on getting those 11 online this week, then only
    those 11 will be online via phpweb. Whether the others build or not
    does not affect this. Earlier when you wrote that translations should
    go online as soon as they build, I expressed my view that whether
    something builds should not be the factor there. A truly outdated
    translation may build but it's outdated and should be offline until
    proven otherwise. But if it builds, simply adding some text and typing
    'php configure.php' will let people know if their changes are okay...
    future translations that is...
    Do you honestly think its easier to update the file rather than
    rewrite it?
    I don't know, that's case-by-case and something for translators to
    decide.

    Regards,
    Philip
  • Hannes Magnusson at Mar 28, 2008 at 8:42 pm

    On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
    This page is for both users of the PHP Manual as well as translators.
    Yes, people do care. It is to explain why [suddenly] 2/3 of the
    translations seemingly disappeared, and also offers yet another path
    for people to find themselves helping the PHP project. Writing such a
    page is worth it, doesn't hurt, I'll write it.
    Or just write up a news entry for it? Safes us a lot of hassle imo.
    I proposed 11 translations for us to have online, whereas the rest go
    offline. Doing so means weekly builds again, starting a week from now. [...]
    The idea is to focus on getting those 11 online this week, then only
    those 11 will be online via phpweb. Whether the others build or not
    does not affect this. Earlier when you wrote that translations should
    go online as soon as they build, I expressed my view that whether
    something builds should not be the factor there.
    OK.
    As of next Friday, April 4th, we build all translations weekly.
    All but those 11 languages will be thrown into the
    $INACTIVE_ONLINE_LANGUAGES array on phpweb (i.e. does not show up on
    php.net/docs nor the "view this page in", and a user won't be
    redirected there based on his ACCEPT_LANGUAGE headers).

    Am I understanding you correctly?

    -Hannes
  • Philip Olson at Mar 29, 2008 at 2:31 am

    On 28 Mar 2008, at 13:36, Hannes Magnusson wrote:
    On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:00 PM, Philip Olson wrote:
    This page is for both users of the PHP Manual as well as translators.
    Yes, people do care. It is to explain why [suddenly] 2/3 of the
    translations seemingly disappeared, and also offers yet another path
    for people to find themselves helping the PHP project. Writing such a
    page is worth it, doesn't hurt, I'll write it.
    Or just write up a news entry for it? Safes us a lot of hassle imo.
    Perhaps, but it's nice to have something more permanent.
    I proposed 11 translations for us to have online, whereas the rest go
    offline. Doing so means weekly builds again, starting a week from
    now. [...]
    The idea is to focus on getting those 11 online this week, then only
    those 11 will be online via phpweb. Whether the others build or not
    does not affect this. Earlier when you wrote that translations should
    go online as soon as they build, I expressed my view that whether
    something builds should not be the factor there.
    OK.
    As of next Friday, April 4th, we build all translations weekly.
    All but those 11 languages will be thrown into the
    $INACTIVE_ONLINE_LANGUAGES array on phpweb (i.e. does not show up on
    php.net/docs nor the "view this page in", and a user won't be
    redirected there based on his ACCEPT_LANGUAGE headers).

    Am I understanding you correctly?
    Yep, how does this sound to everyone?

    Regards,
    Philip

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