Grokbase Groups Perl qa July 2013
FAQ
Hello,
I'm looking for information on quality assurance documentation for basic Perl. I am trying to do QA on a Perl script that we wrote, but before I can do this I need to do QA on the install of Perl. I've been searching for hours online and cannot find QA or V&V documents for Perl. Do any of you know where I might find this documentation, if it exists? If not, do you know how other companies have dealt with QA for the installation of Perl?

Thanks,

Tracy Radel
Nuclear Engineer
SHINE Medical Technologies
tracy.radel@shinemed.com

Search Discussions

  • Shlomi Fish at Jul 31, 2013 at 4:49 pm
    Hi Tracy,

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:29:18 +0000
    Tracy Radel wrote:
    Hello,
    I'm looking for information on quality assurance documentation for basic
    Perl. I am trying to do QA on a Perl script that we wrote, but before I can
    do this I need to do QA on the install of Perl. I've been searching for
    hours online and cannot find QA or V&V documents for Perl. Do any of you
    know where I might find this documentation, if it exists? If not, do you
    know how other companies have dealt with QA for the installation of Perl?
    The perl core (= the Perl 5 implementation) contains a comprehensive test suite,
    that contains over half-a-million (> 500,000) test assertions for testing perl
    on the host system. To run it, build perl and type "make test".

    I'm not sure what's the easy way to run it on a perl binary that was already
    installed to the system, but it should be doable. Make sure you run the test
    suite of the version that corresponds to the version of perl that you
    installed.

    Hope it helps.

    Regards,

      Shlomi Fish
    Thanks,

    Tracy Radel
    Nuclear Engineer
    SHINE Medical Technologies
    tracy.radel@shinemed.com


    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Selina Mandrake - The Slayer (Buffy parody) - http://shlom.in/selina

    I feel much better, now that I’ve given up hope.
         — Ashleigh Brilliant

    Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
  • Dag Rowe at Jul 31, 2013 at 8:20 pm
    Hi Tracy,

    QA on the install of Perl


    Can you clarify your intent?

    Shlomi has given a solution to confirm that the perl.exe binary passes its
    unit tests. This can be extended to library modules, you can confirm they
    are working as the developer intended by running the unit tests at install
    time.

    However, I'm wondering if your question is more about configuration
    management. Are you looking to confirm that you have the same library
    modules and module versions, when you have a test run of your script?

    If so, one option is setting up a private cpan mirror for installations of
    Perl, and Perl dependencies, where you organization can control the
    versions of the modules. You would then know that a QA run of your script
    version x.x, using versioned modules X, Y, and Z passed. This should
    confirm the script's functionality as the customer intends to use it.

    You can also look at Pinto and Carton on metacpan.org for dependency
    management. Other options: enforce minimum versions with Perl use
    statements in the code, or enforce versions in makefiles at deploy time.

    Hope that helps,

    *Dag Rowe*
    QA Analyst, Team Lead

    Pythian - Love your data

    On 31 July 2013 12:49, Shlomi Fish wrote:

    Hi Tracy,

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:29:18 +0000
    Tracy Radel wrote:
    Hello,
    I'm looking for information on quality assurance documentation for basic
    Perl. I am trying to do QA on a Perl script that we wrote, but before I can
    do this I need to do QA on the install of Perl. I've been searching for
    hours online and cannot find QA or V&V documents for Perl. Do any of you
    know where I might find this documentation, if it exists? If not, do you
    know how other companies have dealt with QA for the installation of Perl?
    The perl core (= the Perl 5 implementation) contains a comprehensive test
    suite,
    that contains over half-a-million (> 500,000) test assertions for testing
    perl
    on the host system. To run it, build perl and type "make test".

    I'm not sure what's the easy way to run it on a perl binary that was
    already
    installed to the system, but it should be doable. Make sure you run the
    test
    suite of the version that corresponds to the version of perl that you
    installed.

    Hope it helps.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish
    Thanks,

    Tracy Radel
    Nuclear Engineer
    SHINE Medical Technologies
    tracy.radel@shinemed.com


    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Selina Mandrake - The Slayer (Buffy parody) - http://shlom.in/selina

    I feel much better, now that I’ve given up hope.
    — Ashleigh Brilliant

    Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
    --


    --
  • Tracy Radel at Jul 31, 2013 at 8:47 pm
    Hi Dag,

    It is more an issue of documentation of how quality assurance is done for Perl. Our procedures for QA require that when doing QA on a model or program we have created (my ultimate goal), any software used by that program must also have gone through a sufficiently rigorous QA process. For other programs I have been able to find documentation on their QA program that includes standard practices, problem reporting, code control, records management, etc. They also have documentation describing the V&V tests performed with tolerances and results outlined.

    I understand that an open source product works differently than a product developed by a single entity, but I have no way to get my QA Manager to sign off on use of Perl without some documentation for the QA practices used.

    I personally believe that the testing done on Perl is far more extensive than on most software, but I need to be able to prove that with documents...this is my problem.

    Thanks,

    Tracy Radel
    Nuclear Engineer
    SHINE Medical Technologies
    tracy.radel@shinemed.com

    From: Dag Rowe
    Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:20 PM
    To: Shlomi Fish
    Cc: Tracy Radel; perl-qa@perl.org
    Subject: Re: QA for Perl

    Hi Tracy,

    QA on the install of Perl

    Can you clarify your intent?

    Shlomi has given a solution to confirm that the perl.exe binary passes its unit tests. This can be extended to library modules, you can confirm they are working as the developer intended by running the unit tests at install time.

    However, I'm wondering if your question is more about configuration management. Are you looking to confirm that you have the same library modules and module versions, when you have a test run of your script?

    If so, one option is setting up a private cpan mirror for installations of Perl, and Perl dependencies, where you organization can control the versions of the modules. You would then know that a QA run of your script version x.x, using versioned modules X, Y, and Z passed. This should confirm the script's functionality as the customer intends to use it.

    You can also look at Pinto and Carton on metacpan.org<http://metacpan.org> for dependency management. Other options: enforce minimum versions with Perl use statements in the code, or enforce versions in makefiles at deploy time.

    Hope that helps,

    Dag Rowe
    QA Analyst, Team Lead

    Pythian - Love your data


    On 31 July 2013 12:49, Shlomi Fish wrote:
    Hi Tracy,

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:29:18 +0000
    Tracy Radel wrote:
    Hello,
    I'm looking for information on quality assurance documentation for basic
    Perl. I am trying to do QA on a Perl script that we wrote, but before I can
    do this I need to do QA on the install of Perl. I've been searching for
    hours online and cannot find QA or V&V documents for Perl. Do any of you
    know where I might find this documentation, if it exists? If not, do you
    know how other companies have dealt with QA for the installation of Perl?
    The perl core (= the Perl 5 implementation) contains a comprehensive test suite,
    that contains over half-a-million (> 500,000) test assertions for testing perl
    on the host system. To run it, build perl and type "make test".

    I'm not sure what's the easy way to run it on a perl binary that was already
    installed to the system, but it should be doable. Make sure you run the test
    suite of the version that corresponds to the version of perl that you
    installed.

    Hope it helps.

    Regards,

             Shlomi Fish
    Thanks,

    Tracy Radel
    Nuclear Engineer
    SHINE Medical Technologies
    tracy.radel@shinemed.com

    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Selina Mandrake - The Slayer (Buffy parody) - http://shlom.in/selina

    I feel much better, now that I've given up hope.
         - Ashleigh Brilliant

    Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .



    --
  • Dag Rowe at Jul 31, 2013 at 9:16 pm
    Hi Tracy,

    Perhaps you are looking for reports and information on cpantesters.org:

    http://static.cpantesters.org/recent.html
    http://stats.cpantesters.org/osmatrix-month.html

    You can drill down into some matrix cells, like PASS or a module name.

    You would need to explore their process more, to your organizations
    satisfaction. Hopefully, active cpantesters can give you better
    information than me.

    *Dag Rowe*
    QA Analyst, Team Lead

    Pythian - Love your data


    On 31 July 2013 16:46, Tracy Radel wrote:

    Hi Dag,****

    ** **

    It is more an issue of documentation of how quality assurance is done for
    Perl. Our procedures for QA require that when doing QA on a model or
    program we have created (my ultimate goal), any software used by that
    program must also have gone through a sufficiently rigorous QA process.
    For other programs I have been able to find documentation on their QA
    program that includes standard practices, problem reporting, code control,
    records management, etc. They also have documentation describing the V&V
    tests performed with tolerances and results outlined. ****

    ** **

    I understand that an open source product works differently than a product
    developed by a single entity, but I have no way to get my QA Manager to
    sign off on use of Perl without some documentation for the QA practices
    used.****

    ** **

    I personally believe that the testing done on Perl is far more extensive
    than on most software, but I need to be able to prove that with
    documents…this is my problem.****

    ** **

    Thanks,****

    ** **

    Tracy Radel****

    Nuclear Engineer****

    SHINE Medical Technologies****

    tracy.radel@shinemed.com****

    ** **

    *From:* Dag Rowe
    *Sent:* Wednesday, July 31, 2013 3:20 PM
    *To:* Shlomi Fish
    *Cc:* Tracy Radel; perl-qa@perl.org
    *Subject:* Re: QA for Perl****

    ** **

    Hi Tracy,****

    ** **

    QA on the install of Perl****

    ** **

    Can you clarify your intent?****

    ** **

    Shlomi has given a solution to confirm that the perl.exe binary passes its
    unit tests. This can be extended to library modules, you can confirm they
    are working as the developer intended by running the unit tests at install
    time.****

    ** **

    However, I'm wondering if your question is more about configuration
    management. Are you looking to confirm that you have the same library
    modules and module versions, when you have a test run of your script?****

    ** **

    If so, one option is setting up a private cpan mirror for installations of
    Perl, and Perl dependencies, where you organization can control the
    versions of the modules. You would then know that a QA run of your script
    version x.x, using versioned modules X, Y, and Z passed. This should
    confirm the script's functionality as the customer intends to use it.****

    ** **

    You can also look at Pinto and Carton on metacpan.org for dependency
    management. Other options: enforce minimum versions with Perl use
    statements in the code, or enforce versions in makefiles at deploy time.**
    **

    ** **

    Hope that helps,****


    ****

    *Dag Rowe*****

    QA Analyst, Team Lead****

    ** **

    Pythian - Love your data****

    ** **

    ** **

    On 31 July 2013 12:49, Shlomi Fish wrote:****

    Hi Tracy,****


    On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:29:18 +0000
    Tracy Radel wrote:
    Hello,
    I'm looking for information on quality assurance documentation for basic
    Perl. I am trying to do QA on a Perl script that we wrote, but before I can
    do this I need to do QA on the install of Perl. I've been searching for
    hours online and cannot find QA or V&V documents for Perl. Do any of you
    know where I might find this documentation, if it exists? If not, do you
    know how other companies have dealt with QA for the installation of Perl?
    ****
    The perl core (= the Perl 5 implementation) contains a comprehensive test
    suite,
    that contains over half-a-million (> 500,000) test assertions for testing
    perl
    on the host system. To run it, build perl and type "make test".

    I'm not sure what's the easy way to run it on a perl binary that was
    already
    installed to the system, but it should be doable. Make sure you run the
    test
    suite of the version that corresponds to the version of perl that you
    installed.

    Hope it helps.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish****

    Thanks,

    Tracy Radel
    Nuclear Engineer
    SHINE Medical Technologies
    tracy.radel@shinemed.com

    ****

    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Selina Mandrake - The Slayer (Buffy parody) - http://shlom.in/selina

    I feel much better, now that I’ve given up hope.
    — Ashleigh Brilliant

    Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
    ****

    ** **

    ** **

    --****

    ** **
    --


    --
  • Leon Timmermans at Jul 31, 2013 at 9:23 pm
    Hi Tracy,

    Given your industry, I can readily imagine you need that paperwork. I
    don't think such a formal document exists, but I do believe perl's QA
    routine is sufficiently robust that it would pass through that.

    I suspect we'd know the answers, but not the questions in this matter.
    We don't know how to write those documents, even if we do know how our
    system works.

    Could/would you be able to write it by asking us questions about it?

    Leon
    On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Tracy Radel wrote:
    Hi Dag,



    It is more an issue of documentation of how quality assurance is done for
    Perl. Our procedures for QA require that when doing QA on a model or
    program we have created (my ultimate goal), any software used by that
    program must also have gone through a sufficiently rigorous QA process. For
    other programs I have been able to find documentation on their QA program
    that includes standard practices, problem reporting, code control, records
    management, etc. They also have documentation describing the V&V tests
    performed with tolerances and results outlined.



    I understand that an open source product works differently than a product
    developed by a single entity, but I have no way to get my QA Manager to sign
    off on use of Perl without some documentation for the QA practices used.



    I personally believe that the testing done on Perl is far more extensive
    than on most software, but I need to be able to prove that with
    documents…this is my problem.
  • Olof Johansson at Jul 31, 2013 at 9:27 pm
    Hi Tracy,
    On 2013-07-31 23:22 +0200, Leon Timmermans wrote:
    I suspect we'd know the answers, but not the questions in this matter.
    We don't know how to write those documents, even if we do know how our
    system works.

    Could/would you be able to write it by asking us questions about it?
    Elaborating on this, I'm curious, you mentioned you found what you
    were looking for with other software vendors; does this include other
    open source projects? If so, it could be interesting to see what they
    look like.

    Regards,
    --
      ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Olof Johansson http://stdlib.se/ |
    irc: zibri https://github.com/olof |
      ---------------------------------------------------------------
  • David Cantrell at Jul 31, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    On 31/07/2013 21:46, Tracy Radel wrote:

    It is more an issue of documentation of how quality assurance is done
    for Perl. Our procedures for QA require that when doing QA on a model
    or program we have created (my ultimate goal), any software used by that
    program must also have gone through a sufficiently rigorous QA process.
    For other programs I have been able to find documentation on their QA
    program that includes standard practices, problem reporting, code
    control, records management, etc. They also have documentation
    describing the V&V tests performed with tolerances and results outlined.
    This is probably a good place to start:
        http://perldoc.perl.org/perlpolicy.html

    followed by:
        http://perldoc.perl.org/perlhack.html

    I wish you the very best of luck, especially with successfully
    communicating what it is that you mean by QA to open source people who,
    mostly, have never worked on safety-critical systems!

    --
    David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

        Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.
  • Tracy Radel at Jul 31, 2013 at 9:42 pm
    I think this along with some of the other info people have provided on testing is exactly what I need.

    Thanks for your help everyone!

    Tracy Radel
    Nuclear Engineer
    SHINE Medical Technologies
    tracy.radel@shinemed.com


    -----Original Message-----
    From: David Cantrell
    Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:38 PM
    To: perl-qa@perl.org
    Subject: Re: QA for Perl
    On 31/07/2013 21:46, Tracy Radel wrote:

    It is more an issue of documentation of how quality assurance is done
    for Perl. Our procedures for QA require that when doing QA on a model
    or program we have created (my ultimate goal), any software used by
    that program must also have gone through a sufficiently rigorous QA process.
    For other programs I have been able to find documentation on their QA
    program that includes standard practices, problem reporting, code
    control, records management, etc. They also have documentation
    describing the V&V tests performed with tolerances and results outlined.
    This is probably a good place to start:
        http://perldoc.perl.org/perlpolicy.html

    followed by:
        http://perldoc.perl.org/perlhack.html

    I wish you the very best of luck, especially with successfully communicating what it is that you mean by QA to open source people who, mostly, have never worked on safety-critical systems!

    --
    David Cantrell | even more awesome than a panda-fur coat

        Longum iter est per praecepta, breve et efficax per exempla.
  • Nicholas Clark at Aug 2, 2013 at 10:08 am

    On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 08:46:53PM +0000, Tracy Radel wrote:
    Hi Dag,

    It is more an issue of documentation of how quality assurance is done for Perl. Our procedures for QA require that when doing QA on a model or program we have created (my ultimate goal), any software used by that program must also have gone through a sufficiently rigorous QA process. For other programs I have been able to find documentation on their QA program that includes standard practices, problem reporting, code control, records management, etc. They also have documentation describing the V&V tests performed with tolerances and results outlined.
    You mention "code control". I don't think that anyone has mentioned the
    following yet (although you might already be aware of it)

    The Perl 5 source code now uses a git repository for version control:

    http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git

    Previously Perl 5 was using Perforce, from March 1997 until December 2008.

    The git repository contains a complete import of the Perforce repository
    (byte for byte perfect. I checked)
    but additionally attempts to reconstruct history prior to March 1997 from
    any available sources - mostly stable and development release tarballs.

    So we have over 25 years of history in version control, although the
    resolution of changes isn't that good for changes more than 16 years old.

    Nicholas Clark

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