FAQ
I wish to take over maintenance of Data::Alias. I have recently published
a substantial patch to update it for post-5.10 Perls, but the author
(XMATH) is unresponsive.

xmath has been noted as being unresponsive in recent months. This
particularly affected Sub::Name, which was broken by a core change in
5.13.3. Despite a trivial patch being available, xmath never released
a fixed version, and ultimately it was taken over by rafl (FLORA).

Data::Alias got broken by core changes in 5.11.0 and 5.11.2. Until
recently there was no fix to make it work on 5.12. I posted a fix to
<xmath@cpan.org> and <perl5-porters@perl.org> on 2010-10-12. In that
message I offered to take over maintenance.

xmath has not replied to my message of 2010-10-12. Given the prior
history, I don't think a long wait is required to establish that he's
long-term unresponsive.

-zefram

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  • Matt S Trout at Oct 22, 2010 at 1:08 am

    On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:43:16AM +0100, Zefram wrote:
    I wish to take over maintenance of Data::Alias. I have recently published
    a substantial patch to update it for post-5.10 Perls, but the author
    (XMATH) is unresponsive.

    xmath has been noted as being unresponsive in recent months. This
    particularly affected Sub::Name, which was broken by a core change in
    5.13.3. Despite a trivial patch being available, xmath never released
    a fixed version, and ultimately it was taken over by rafl (FLORA).

    Data::Alias got broken by core changes in 5.11.0 and 5.11.2. Until
    recently there was no fix to make it work on 5.12. I posted a fix to
    <xmath@cpan.org> and <perl5-porters@perl.org> on 2010-10-12. In that
    message I offered to take over maintenance.

    xmath has not replied to my message of 2010-10-12. Given the prior
    history, I don't think a long wait is required to establish that he's
    long-term unresponsive.
    Given he's a fairly laid back guy and "doesn't work on 5.12" is a bitch at
    this stage, I've granted you co-maint in order to get this situation
    resolved. Please *only* use this co-maint access for bug fixes for 5.12 and
    any further bug fixes that result from that for the moment; my motivation
    is not a fast takeover but merely a fixed version on CPAN (I cite Adam
    Kennedy's treatment of Template as precedent for this).

    If we don't hear anything from xmath for a few months, we can consider the
    module to be yours.

    XMATH, come back, we miss you!

    --
    Matt S Trout - Shadowcat Systems - Perl consulting with a commit bit and a clue

    http://shadowcat.co.uk/blog/matt-s-trout/ http://twitter.com/shadowcat_mst/

    Email me now on mst (at) shadowcat.co.uk and let's chat about how our Catalyst
    commercial support, training and consultancy packages could help your team.
  • Zefram at Apr 10, 2011 at 6:25 am

    Matt S Trout wrote:
    On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:43:16AM +0100, Zefram wrote:
    I wish to take over maintenance of Data::Alias. I have recently published
    a substantial patch to update it for post-5.10 Perls, but the author
    (XMATH) is unresponsive.
    ...
    If we don't hear anything from xmath for a few months, we can consider the
    module to be yours.
    It's been 5.5 months since we discussed that. I've kept Data-Alias up
    to date as the core has changed under it: after the 5.11.0 and 5.11.2
    breakages that I initially tackled, it got broken again by 5.13.1, 5.13.6,
    5.13.7, 5.13.9, and 5.13.10. I have still not heard from xmath. Is this
    an appropriate time to convert this arrangement to a full takeover?

    -zefram
  • Steffen Mueller at Apr 10, 2011 at 10:19 am
    Hi Zefram, hi all,
    On 04/10/2011 08:24 AM, Zefram wrote:
    Matt S Trout wrote:
    On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:43:16AM +0100, Zefram wrote:
    I wish to take over maintenance of Data::Alias. I have recently published
    a substantial patch to update it for post-5.10 Perls, but the author
    (XMATH) is unresponsive.
    ....
    If we don't hear anything from xmath for a few months, we can consider the
    module to be yours.
    It's been 5.5 months since we discussed that. I've kept Data-Alias up
    to date as the core has changed under it: after the 5.11.0 and 5.11.2
    breakages that I initially tackled, it got broken again by 5.13.1, 5.13.6,
    5.13.7, 5.13.9, and 5.13.10. I have still not heard from xmath. Is this
    an appropriate time to convert this arrangement to a full takeover?
    I agree. I just transferred primary maintainer status to you. Matthijs,
    you can still upload new versions and at your request, I will transfer
    the module back. Primary maintainer status is mostly about being able to
    allow others to upload new versions.

    Best regards,
    Steffen
  • Zefram at Apr 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Steffen Mueller wrote:
    Primary maintainer status is mostly about being able to
    allow others to upload new versions.
    That's not a significant concern for me. That's the significance that
    the PAUSE permission system ascribes to primary maintainership, but I'm
    really interested in loosening the socially-enforced constraint that
    mst laid down when granting me co-maint:
    Please *only* use this co-maint access for bug fixes for 5.12 and
    any further bug fixes that result from that for the moment; my motivation
    is not a fast takeover but merely a fixed version on CPAN (I cite Adam
    Kennedy's treatment of Template as precedent for this).
    Under the "bug fixes for 5.12 and any further bug fixes that result from
    that" rubric, I've only updated the module to handle new Perl versions.
    I'd like to have the authority to fix bugs not related to core version
    (the RT queue has a few), to substantially refactor, to reimplement
    the parsing side using new core facilities (while retaining the old
    implementation for compatibility to older Perl versions), to improve
    documentation, and so on.

    Should I, at this stage, have the full authority that a primary maintainer
    normally has? Apparently not, if you're willing to transfer primary
    maintainership back to xmath on his request. That's OK. So what should
    be the extent of my limited authority regarding the module?

    -zefram
  • Steffen Mueller at Apr 11, 2011 at 4:26 pm
    Hi,
    On 04/11/2011 04:31 PM, Zefram wrote:
    Steffen Mueller wrote:
    Primary maintainer status is mostly about being able to
    allow others to upload new versions.
    That's not a significant concern for me. That's the significance that
    the PAUSE permission system ascribes to primary maintainership, but I'm
    really interested in loosening the socially-enforced constraint that
    mst laid down when granting me co-maint:
    Please *only* use this co-maint access for bug fixes for 5.12 and
    any further bug fixes that result from that for the moment; my motivation
    is not a fast takeover but merely a fixed version on CPAN (I cite Adam
    Kennedy's treatment of Template as precedent for this).
    Under the "bug fixes for 5.12 and any further bug fixes that result from
    that" rubric, I've only updated the module to handle new Perl versions.
    I'd like to have the authority to fix bugs not related to core version
    (the RT queue has a few), to substantially refactor, to reimplement
    the parsing side using new core facilities (while retaining the old
    implementation for compatibility to older Perl versions), to improve
    documentation, and so on.

    Should I, at this stage, have the full authority that a primary maintainer
    normally has? Apparently not, if you're willing to transfer primary
    maintainership back to xmath on his request. That's OK. So what should
    be the extent of my limited authority regarding the module?
    As far as I know, there is no known-good solution to this dilemma. In
    the end, we've almost always gotten a Yay/Nay response from the original
    author on issues like this.

    Some general considerations on the topic that were written by Andreas,
    brian, and myself (IIRC) can be found in the "takeover" section of
    04pause.html.

    Personally, I support what you intend to do. As a PAUSE admin, I have to
    say it would be really important for the general practice in these
    matters to get an ack from Matthijs.

    In the end, I guess it comes down to the notion of ownership of a
    namespace, not the code. The code's licensed under the same terms as
    perl itself, so as long as you acknowledge the copyright of the original
    author and keep the license the same, I see no *legal* issue with your
    doing pretty much anything else with the code. As for the namespace, I
    believe the ulterior responsibility lies with the people who run the
    whole PAUSE system. That would be Andreas and a few others. "Ownership"
    of a module == namespace is a very fuzzy thing, probably with little to
    no legal interpretation. The policy of the PAUSE/CPAN admins has been
    explicitly vague with the motivation to protect the authors of modules
    without closing all loopholes to do (something close to) the right thing
    if somebody disappears. This is what the aforementioned 04pause.html
    tries to convey.

    I realize that this does not provide a solution for your (or our)
    dilemma. But maybe it helps you make some sense of the hand-waving.

    Finally let me say that yes, primary maintainership also comes with a
    notion of being somewhat less restricted than "let's keep things
    minimally invasive", but it does not mean complete disregard of the work
    of another contributor (to the CPAN or perl).

    Best regards,
    Steffen
  • Matthijs van Duin at Apr 12, 2011 at 1:58 am

    On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 6:25 PM, Steffen Mueller wrote:
    In the end, we've almost always gotten a Yay/Nay response from the original
    author on issues like this.
    Well then, I wouldn't want to break tradition on this.

    Due to personal problems I haven't been able to get myself to stop
    avoiding my inbox, and although I think things will get better I
    certainly won't make any promises w.r.t. my responsiveness. Simply
    put, I can't maintain Data::Alias at present nor can I say when this
    situation may change.

    The mere fact that Zefram has been able to update and fix my rather
    magical (and spectacularly poorly commented) module is enough for me
    to trust it'll be in good hands.

    Therefore...
    As a PAUSE admin, I have to say it would be really important for the general
    practice in these matters to get an ack from Matthijs.
    Ack.

    - xmath
  • Jesse Vincent at Apr 12, 2011 at 4:05 am
    Just for a bit of closure, it appears that xmath has actually blessed
    the takeover: (#p5p, US/Eastern)


    22:00 <@xmath> Zefram: there ya go. I wish you and D::A a merry journey together ;)
  • Elizabeth Mattijsen at Oct 22, 2010 at 5:38 am

    On Oct 22, 2010, at 1:43 AM, Zefram wrote:
    I wish to take over maintenance of Data::Alias. I have recently published
    a substantial patch to update it for post-5.10 Perls, but the author
    (XMATH) is unresponsive.

    xmath has been noted as being unresponsive in recent months. This
    particularly affected Sub::Name, which was broken by a core change in
    5.13.3. Despite a trivial patch being available, xmath never released
    a fixed version, and ultimately it was taken over by rafl (FLORA).

    Data::Alias got broken by core changes in 5.11.0 and 5.11.2. Until
    recently there was no fix to make it work on 5.12. I posted a fix to
    <xmath@cpan.org> and <perl5-porters@perl.org> on 2010-10-12. In that
    message I offered to take over maintenance.

    xmath has not replied to my message of 2010-10-12. Given the prior
    history, I don't think a long wait is required to establish that he's
    long-term unresponsive.
    FWIW, I agree with this assessment.


    Liz

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