FAQ
What with META.json being generated (and presumably used) in our CPAN
uploads, is it necessary to include META.yml anymore? A brief search
didn't really tell me anything.

If it makes a difference, the minimum version of Perl that I require for
my modules is currently 5.10.1.

      -john

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  • Aristotle Pagaltzis at Oct 9, 2015 at 6:50 am
    Hi John,

    * John M Gamble [2015-10-06 20:25]:
    What with META.json being generated (and presumably used) in our CPAN
    uploads, is it necessary to include META.yml anymore? A brief search
    didn't really tell me anything.

    If it makes a difference, the minimum version of Perl that I require
    for my modules is currently 5.10.1.
    if I’m looking at this right, Perl 5.13.10 is the earliest Perl version
    where the toolchain supports META.json out of the box.

    Specifically, 5.13.9 was the first perl to ship JSON::PP in core, but
    its CPAN.pm and Parse::CPAN::Meta lack META.json support. They were
    added in Parse::CPAN::Meta 1.41_01 and CPAN.pm 1.94_65, both of which
    were included in 5.13.10 (or rather, Parse::CPAN::Meta was upgraded to
    1.44).

    In practice that means Perl 5.14.0 is the first Perl that can install
    dists with a JSON-only META out of the box.

    Regards,
    --
    Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
  • John M. Gamble at Oct 10, 2015 at 7:22 am
    Thank you very much for looking this up. I don't plan to require version
    5.14 until 2017 or later, so I guess I'm stuck with META.yml for a while.

    Thanks again,
          -john
    On Fri, October 9, 2015 1:50 am, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:
    Hi John,

    * John M Gamble [2015-10-06 20:25]:
    What with META.json being generated (and presumably used) in our CPAN
    uploads, is it necessary to include META.yml anymore? A brief search
    didn't really tell me anything.

    If it makes a difference, the minimum version of Perl that I require
    for my modules is currently 5.10.1.
    if I’m looking at this right, Perl 5.13.10 is the earliest Perl version
    where the toolchain supports META.json out of the box.

    Specifically, 5.13.9 was the first perl to ship JSON::PP in core, but
    its CPAN.pm and Parse::CPAN::Meta lack META.json support. They were
    added in Parse::CPAN::Meta 1.41_01 and CPAN.pm 1.94_65, both of which
    were included in 5.13.10 (or rather, Parse::CPAN::Meta was upgraded to
    1.44).

    In practice that means Perl 5.14.0 is the first Perl that can install
    dists with a JSON-only META out of the box.

    Regards,
    --
    Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
  • Leon Timmermans at Oct 10, 2015 at 1:46 pm

    On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:

    Hi John,

    * John M Gamble [2015-10-06 20:25]:
    What with META.json being generated (and presumably used) in our CPAN
    uploads, is it necessary to include META.yml anymore? A brief search
    didn't really tell me anything.

    If it makes a difference, the minimum version of Perl that I require
    for my modules is currently 5.10.1.
    if I’m looking at this right, Perl 5.13.10 is the earliest Perl version
    where the toolchain supports META.json out of the box.

    Specifically, 5.13.9 was the first perl to ship JSON::PP in core, but
    its CPAN.pm and Parse::CPAN::Meta lack META.json support. They were
    added in Parse::CPAN::Meta 1.41_01 and CPAN.pm 1.94_65, both of which
    were included in 5.13.10 (or rather, Parse::CPAN::Meta was upgraded to
    1.44).

    In practice that means Perl 5.14.0 is the first Perl that can install
    dists with a JSON-only META out of the box.
    META was never something relevant for installation purposes except
    configure_requires (and dynamic_config, theoretically), it's MYMETA that
    matters more. When using EUMM often you can easily live without META.yml,
    but figuring out when you need it and when not is a hassle, and actually
    declaring a minimum EUMM version (even if it's an ancient one) is generally
    considered good practice. Also I think some packagers may be using it.
    Leon
  • Aristotle Pagaltzis at Oct 10, 2015 at 2:50 pm

    * Leon Timmermans [2015-10-10 15:50]:
    META was never something relevant for installation purposes except
    configure_requires (and dynamic_config, theoretically), it's MYMETA
    that matters more. When using EUMM often you can easily live without
    META.yml, but figuring out when you need it and when not is a hassle,
    and actually declaring a minimum EUMM version (even if it's an ancient
    one) is generally considered good practice. Also I think some
    packagers may be using it.
    So what does that mean for John’s original question?

    --
    Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
  • Dominique Dumont at Oct 25, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Le samedi 10 octobre 2015, 15:45:38 15:45:38 Leon Timmermans a écrit :
    Also I think some packagers may be using it.
    Debian uses the information from META to create and refresh Perl package in
    Debian format.

    More specifically, the tool used to create and refresh package (dh-make-perl
    [1]) needs META.yml to work.

    So, please, do not remove META.

    All the best
  • Aristotle Pagaltzis at Oct 25, 2015 at 1:38 pm

    * Dominique Dumont [2015-10-25 12:30]:
    Debian uses the information from META to create and refresh Perl
    package in Debian format.

    More specifically, the tool used to create and refresh package
    (dh-make-perl [1]) needs META.yml to work.

    So, please, do not remove META.
    Nobody is talking about dropping META entirely. The question is whether
    a META.yml is necessary in addition to META.json.

    Does dh-make-perl need META.yml specifically or can it just as well use
    META.json? (I would hope it can…)

    Regards,
    --
    Aristotle Pagaltzis // <http://plasmasturm.org/>
  • Shawn H Corey at Oct 25, 2015 at 2:16 pm

    On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 14:38:32 +0100 Aristotle Pagaltzis wrote:

    * Dominique Dumont [2015-10-25 12:30]:
    Debian uses the information from META to create and refresh Perl
    package in Debian format.

    More specifically, the tool used to create and refresh package
    (dh-make-perl [1]) needs META.yml to work.

    So, please, do not remove META.
    Nobody is talking about dropping META entirely. The question is
    whether a META.yml is necessary in addition to META.json.

    Does dh-make-perl need META.yml specifically or can it just as well
    use META.json? (I would hope it can…)

    Regards,
    If it's not a requirement, then people are going to get sloppy with it,
    meaning sometimes it will break other people's code.


    --
    Don't stop where the ink does.
      Shawn
  • David Cantrell at Oct 26, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 10:16:02AM -0400, Shawn H Corey wrote:

    If it's not a requirement, then people are going to get sloppy with it,
    meaning sometimes it will break other people's code.
    Supporting everything for ever is a recipe for Pain. I'd be happy for it
    to be officially deprecated, for authors to be notified, for tools to
    later start warning that it exists, and for support to be removed in a
    few years.

    --
    David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

    You may now start misinterpreting what I just
    wrote, and attacking that misinterpretation.
  • Leon Timmermans at Oct 27, 2015 at 1:39 am

    On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 5:26 PM, David Cantrell wrote:
    On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 10:16:02AM -0400, Shawn H Corey wrote:

    If it's not a requirement, then people are going to get sloppy with it,
    meaning sometimes it will break other people's code.
    Supporting everything for ever is a recipe for Pain. I'd be happy for it
    to be officially deprecated, for authors to be notified, for tools to
    later start warning that it exists, and for support to be removed in a
    few years.

    For reasons Aristotle mentioned, we can't fully deprecate it until 5.14 is
    the minimum supported perl (even if we can omit it in many cases today).
    The toolchain gang just increased it's own absolute minimum from 5.6 to 5.8
    in 2013 (and there are still a few advocates for the former). What you're
    suggesting is probably going to happen around the time RHEL 6 is EOLed.

    You have no idea how happy I'd be to share a $beverage with you when that
    happens somewhere around 2024.

    Leon
  • Leon Timmermans at Oct 25, 2015 at 3:49 pm

    On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Dominique Dumont wrote:

    Le samedi 10 octobre 2015, 15:45:38 15:45:38 Leon Timmermans a écrit :
    Also I think some packagers may be using it.
    Debian uses the information from META to create and refresh Perl package in
    Debian format.

    More specifically, the tool used to create and refresh package
    (dh-make-perl
    [1]) needs META.yml to work.

    So, please, do not remove META.

    All the best
    As far as I can tell, dh-make-perl is already using CPAN::Meta, and
    preferring META.json over META.yml as it should
    (DhMakePerl::Command::Packaging::process_meta), I don't think there' a
    problem there.

    Leon
  • Dominique Dumont at Oct 25, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Le dimanche 25 octobre 2015 16:49:03, vous avez écrit :
    As far as I can tell, dh-make-perl is already using CPAN::Meta, and
    preferring META.json over META.yml as it should
    (DhMakePerl::Command::Packaging::process_meta), I don't think there' a
    problem there.
    Oh well... Looks like I was misled by dh-make-perl man page which explicitly
    mentions META.yml.

    Then, I see no problem to obsolete META.yml if META.json is kept, but I'd like
    to check this with Debian perl team (cc'ed)

    So, Debian Perl colleagues, what do you think ? Would META.yml removal cause
    a problem for our workflow ?

    All the best
    --
    https://github.com/dod38fr/config-model/ -o- http://search.cpan.org/~ddumont/
         http://ddumont.wordpress.com/ -o- irc: dod at irc.debian.org
  • Damyan Ivanov at Oct 26, 2015 at 6:42 am
    -=| Dominique Dumont, 25.10.2015 17:03:09 +0100 |=-
    Le dimanche 25 octobre 2015 16:49:03, vous avez écrit :
    As far as I can tell, dh-make-perl is already using CPAN::Meta, and
    preferring META.json over META.yml as it should
    (DhMakePerl::Command::Packaging::process_meta), I don't think there' a
    problem there.
    Oh well... Looks like I was misled by dh-make-perl man page which explicitly
    mentions META.yml.

    Then, I see no problem to obsolete META.yml if META.json is kept, but I'd like
    to check this with Debian perl team (cc'ed)

    So, Debian Perl colleagues, what do you think ? Would META.yml removal cause
    a problem for our workflow ?
    It should not. If it does, then the workflow (including dh-make-perl)
    needs to be fixed.


    -- dam
  • John M Gamble at Oct 27, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    On 10/26/2015 1:42 AM, Damyan Ivanov wrote:
    -=| Dominique Dumont, 25.10.2015 17:03:09 +0100 |=-
    Le dimanche 25 octobre 2015 16:49:03, vous avez écrit :
    As far as I can tell, dh-make-perl is already using CPAN::Meta, and
    preferring META.json over META.yml as it should
    (DhMakePerl::Command::Packaging::process_meta), I don't think there' a
    problem there.
    Oh well... Looks like I was misled by dh-make-perl man page which explicitly
    mentions META.yml.

    Then, I see no problem to obsolete META.yml if META.json is kept, but I'd like
    to check this with Debian perl team (cc'ed)

    So, Debian Perl colleagues, what do you think ? Would META.yml removal cause
    a problem for our workflow ?
    It should not. If it does, then the workflow (including dh-make-perl)
    needs to be fixed.
    Or at the very least the man page needs to mention META.json.

          -john
  • Gregor herrmann at Oct 26, 2015 at 10:57 am

    On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 17:03:09 +0100, Dominique Dumont wrote:

    Then, I see no problem to obsolete META.yml if META.json is kept, but I'd like
    to check this with Debian perl team (cc'ed)

    So, Debian Perl colleagues, what do you think ? Would META.yml removal cause
    a problem for our workflow ?
    I don't think that our tools have issues, and if they have
    nevertheless, that should be quick to spot and easy to fix.

    Personally, on importing a new upstream release, I prefer to read the
    diff of META.yml and find a diff'd META.json terrible; but I guess
    that's not enough reason to keep it :)


    Cheers,
    gregor

    --
      .''`. Homepage: http://info.comodo.priv.at/ - OpenPGP key 0xBB3A68018649AA06
      : :' : Debian GNU/Linux user, admin, and developer - https://www.debian.org/
      `. `' Member of VIBE!AT & SPI, fellow of the Free Software Foundation Europe
        `- NP: Dire Straits: Private Investigations

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