FAQ
It has become the time for me to admit to what has probably been pretty
obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not have the time
to give CPAN the attention it deserves. Time to pass the baton, etc.

First and foremost: CPAN is PAUSE. So it's actually Andreas that has
been doing most of the work all these years. All the kudos to him.
The FUNET site is still mirroring some other sources into CPAN, but
they are completely dead and nobody would notice if they stopped.

Secondly: the CPAN mirror database maintenance is very messy,
error-prone, and time-consuming: time to create a ticketing system
for it, where each mirror is a queue, and each mirror maintainer gets
an account?

Thirdly, here's what I've been thinking about who could take over:

brian d foy & Ricardo Signes - project management ("policies")
Ask Bjørn Hansen & Robert Spier - tech leads (i.e. running systems)
Henk Penning & David Landgren - the mirror database

Note that I have named always two people - myself being a baaad
example of a single point of failure. Though: maybe the PAUSE
maintenance could be shared with more people? Andreas does need
some evenings off. Likewise, the DNS of .cpan.org is currently
behind Jos. Not a bad place to be, but again, a single point
of failure sucks.

There are some other smaller parts in CPAN - like maintaining
the FAQ, and maintaining the binaries page. I don't have any
good ideas on how/whom they should go.

As recipients I chose people who over the years have shown promise
and/or interest in various aspects of CPAN, in reasonably random
order. Feel free to nominate/denominate yourself/other people.

The concrete first step could be that Ask's develooper starts mirroring
PAUSE directly instead of from FUNET, and then I switch FUNET to mirror
from develooper. Second step: maybe get kernel.org as the North America
Tier 1 mirror (they have shown interest in the past, and they have the
capacity). Third step: more Tier 1 mirrors in NA and other continents?
Fourth step: you fill it in.

However Perl 6 will affect CPAN, I leave for younger minds to ponder.

To close off, some random musings, if I may: avoid tight couplings,
like the plague they are. Avoid single points of failure.
Programming/middleware fads come and go, don't be too eager
to follow them.

Search Discussions

  • Ask Bjørn Hansen at Sep 26, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    On Sep 26, 2010, at 4:49, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:

    It has become the time for me to admit to what has probably been pretty
    obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not have the time
    to give CPAN the attention it deserves. Time to pass the baton, etc.
    Thank you Jarkko -- had it not been for your early invention and work with CPAN I don't think many of us would be here or be as productive with Perl as we are.


    - ask

    --
    Ask Bjørn Hansen, http://askask.com/
  • Shlomi Fish at Sep 26, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    On Sunday 26 September 2010 14:16:49 Ask Bjørn Hansen wrote:
    On Sep 26, 2010, at 4:49, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
    It has become the time for me to admit to what has probably been pretty
    obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not have the time
    to give CPAN the attention it deserves. Time to pass the baton, etc.
    Thank you Jarkko -- had it not been for your early invention and work with
    CPAN I don't think many of us would be here or be as productive with Perl
    as we are.
    I second that: thanks, Jarkko for your work on CPAN.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish

    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Original Riddles - http://www.shlomifish.org/puzzles/

    <rindolf> She's a hot chick. But she smokes.
    <go|dfish> She can smoke as long as she's smokin'.

    Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
  • Jarkko Hietaniemi at Sep 26, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    On Sunday-201009-26 8:16, Ask Bjørn Hansen wrote:
    On Sep 26, 2010, at 4:49, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:

    It has become the time for me to admit to what has probably been pretty
    obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not have the time
    to give CPAN the attention it deserves. Time to pass the baton, etc.
    Thank you Jarkko -- had it not been for your early invention and work with CPAN I don't think many of us would be here or be as productive with Perl as we are.
    On a more urgent note: could you and Elaine coordinate on moving/copying
    stuff out of gargoyle where e.g. the mirrors.cpan.org runs?
    The webster.edu has given us a strong hint of moving out a.s.a.p.
    I think the first order of things would be just copying data out of
    gargoyle, we can worry about the services later.

    In the FUNET side things are not as critical to move out though their
    admins do worry about the insane rsync load. Whatever the future
    system is, direct plain rsync connections should not be recommended:
    rsync is just too heavy. I and Elaine do have accounts to FUNET
    and can move stuff in and out (more accounts though not impossible
    are unlikely).

    Regarding the maintenance scripts in FUNET: there isn't much that I
    would be, ahem, proud to share: they are mostly dead simple shell /
    very early Perl 5 scripts. For 95% of that stuff I would recommend
    writing from scratch. Perhaps the most important new thing needed
    would be some sort of CPAN mirror staleness alerting script, as input
    using Henk Pennings' mirror scan results. I had over the years a few of
    those systems, all of them rotted eventually. As an extension of just
    checking the timestamp of the magical timestamp file, it would be nice
    to have some sort of random sampling of mirrors: are they really valid
    uptodate mirrors?
    - ask
  • Adam Kennedy at Sep 26, 2010 at 12:58 pm
    If we can get the MIRROR.yaml|json system I proposed finally deployed,
    this rewrite would become trivially easy.

    Adam K
    On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
    On Sunday-201009-26 8:16, Ask Bjørn Hansen wrote:
    On Sep 26, 2010, at 4:49, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:

    It has become the time for me to admit to what has probably been pretty
    obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not have the time
    to give CPAN the attention it deserves.  Time to pass the baton, etc.
    Thank you Jarkko -- had it not been for your early invention and work with
    CPAN I don't think many of us would be here or be as productive with Perl as
    we are.
    On a more urgent note: could you and Elaine coordinate on moving/copying
    stuff out of gargoyle where e.g. the mirrors.cpan.org runs?
    The webster.edu has given us a strong hint of moving out a.s.a.p.
    I think the first order of things would be just copying data out of
    gargoyle, we can worry about the services later.

    In the FUNET side things are not as critical to move out though their
    admins do worry about the insane rsync load.  Whatever the future
    system is, direct plain rsync connections should not be recommended:
    rsync is just too heavy.  I and Elaine do have accounts to FUNET
    and can move stuff in and out (more accounts though not impossible
    are unlikely).

    Regarding the maintenance scripts in FUNET: there isn't much that I
    would be, ahem, proud to share: they are mostly dead simple shell /
    very early Perl 5 scripts.  For 95% of that stuff I would recommend writing
    from scratch.  Perhaps the most important new thing needed
    would be some sort of CPAN mirror staleness alerting script, as input
    using Henk Pennings' mirror scan results.  I had over the years a few of
    those systems, all of them rotted eventually.  As an extension of just
    checking the timestamp of the magical timestamp file, it would be nice
    to have some sort of random sampling of mirrors: are they really valid
    uptodate mirrors?
    - ask
  • Nadim khemir at Sep 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm
    Adam, what was that Mirror.yaml proposition about? I remember a never ending
    thread about rsynch that I though gave no result. Is your proposal related?

    In any case, if it is a problem, I can probably get some time to help. You
    know where I live.

    Nadim.
  • Ask Bjørn Hansen at Sep 26, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    On Sep 26, 2010, at 5:52, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:

    On a more urgent note: could you and Elaine coordinate on moving/copying
    stuff out of gargoyle where e.g. the mirrors.cpan.org runs?
    Yes, of course. I'll send a mail off-list to get started.


    - ask
  • Ovid at Sep 26, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    --- On Sun, 26/9/10, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:

    From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@iki.fi>
    Subject: so long, CPAN
    To: "cpan-workers" <cpan-workers@perl.org>
    Date: Sunday, 26 September, 2010, 12:49
    It has become the time for me to
    admit to what has probably been pretty
    obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not
    have the time
    to give CPAN the attention it deserves.  Time to pass
    the baton, etc.
    Jarkko,

    Thank you for all of the hard work you've done here. Perl would be a poorer place without you.

    Cheers,
    Ovid
  • Shlomi Fish at Oct 4, 2010 at 3:56 pm

    On Sunday 26 September 2010 13:49:26 Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
    It has become the time for me to admit to what has probably been pretty
    obvious for anyone else already for some time - I do not have the time
    to give CPAN the attention it deserves. Time to pass the baton, etc.

    First and foremost: CPAN is PAUSE. So it's actually Andreas that has
    been doing most of the work all these years. All the kudos to him.
    The FUNET site is still mirroring some other sources into CPAN, but
    they are completely dead and nobody would notice if they stopped.

    Secondly: the CPAN mirror database maintenance is very messy,
    error-prone, and time-consuming: time to create a ticketing system
    for it, where each mirror is a queue, and each mirror maintainer gets
    an account?
    Having seen that the inclusion of the only currently active CPAN mirror in
    Israel has fallen between the chairs:

    http://www.mail-archive.com/perl@perl.org.il/msg02834.html

    I'd like to give a hand maintaining the CPAN mirror database. Can we use
    version control for that with people pulling or committing changes from other
    people?

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish
    Thirdly, here's what I've been thinking about who could take over:

    brian d foy & Ricardo Signes - project management ("policies")
    Ask Bjørn Hansen & Robert Spier - tech leads (i.e. running systems)
    Henk Penning & David Landgren - the mirror database

    Note that I have named always two people - myself being a baaad
    example of a single point of failure. Though: maybe the PAUSE
    maintenance could be shared with more people? Andreas does need
    some evenings off. Likewise, the DNS of .cpan.org is currently
    behind Jos. Not a bad place to be, but again, a single point
    of failure sucks.

    There are some other smaller parts in CPAN - like maintaining
    the FAQ, and maintaining the binaries page. I don't have any
    good ideas on how/whom they should go.

    As recipients I chose people who over the years have shown promise
    and/or interest in various aspects of CPAN, in reasonably random
    order. Feel free to nominate/denominate yourself/other people.

    The concrete first step could be that Ask's develooper starts mirroring
    PAUSE directly instead of from FUNET, and then I switch FUNET to mirror
    from develooper. Second step: maybe get kernel.org as the North America
    Tier 1 mirror (they have shown interest in the past, and they have the
    capacity). Third step: more Tier 1 mirrors in NA and other continents?
    Fourth step: you fill it in.

    However Perl 6 will affect CPAN, I leave for younger minds to ponder.

    To close off, some random musings, if I may: avoid tight couplings,
    like the plague they are. Avoid single points of failure.
    Programming/middleware fads come and go, don't be too eager
    to follow them.
    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Interview with Ben Collins-Sussman - http://shlom.in/sussman

    <rindolf> She's a hot chick. But she smokes.
    <go|dfish> She can smoke as long as she's smokin'.

    Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

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postedSep 26, '10 at 11:49a
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