FAQ
03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON

Proposal:

The current META.yml isn't really YAML. It has many of the drawbacks of
YAML and none of the technical benefits. It has the benefit of being sort
of user editable, but both YAML and YAML Tiny can seem more human-editable
than they are. We almost certainly want machines writing META files
anyway.

META.json should replace META.yml over time. Given both, META.json should
be preferred. JSON is entirely unambiguous, very easy for humans and
machines to read, has a very short and clear specification, and has a very
well proven pure-Perl reader and emitter with no non-core prereqs that
could be cored. Parse::CPAN::Meta could handle both.

Alternately, META.yml could be detected as either JSON or YAML Tiny by
Parse::CPAN::Meta, relying on the "well, JSON is YAML" hand wave.

Comments

* I would like to phase out the use of YAML Tiny entirely. YAML was a
great idea that has failed to thrive in Perl land, and YAML Tiny is a
great way to cope with our reliance on that failed idea. Rather than let
YAML Tiny live forever, we should begin the process of deprecating it
entirely over the next 5-10 years. rjbs 15:36, 28 August 2009 (BST)

* I concur with Ricardo that at the very least we should at least state in
the next version that the YAML format is ultimately destined for
deprecation. AdamK

* I would like one violation of the JSON spec: allow Javascript-style
comments. My one beef with the JSON spec. Elliot

Search Discussions

  • Ricardo Signes at Oct 9, 2009 at 12:11 pm
    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Strongly agree.
    * I would like one violation of the JSON spec: allow Javascript-style
    comments. My one beef with the JSON spec. Elliot
    Strongly disagree. We don't want to have our own dialect.

    --
    rjbs
  • Hans Dieter Pearcey at Oct 9, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    Excerpts from Ricardo Signes's message of Fri Oct 09 08:11:44 -0400 2009:
    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Strongly agree.
    Strongly agree.
    * I would like one violation of the JSON spec: allow Javascript-style
    comments. My one beef with the JSON spec. Elliot
    Strongly disagree. We don't want to have our own dialect.
    Me too. Aren't we tending towards META files being written by machines, not
    humans, anyway?

    hdp.
  • Graham Barr at Oct 9, 2009 at 1:27 pm

    On Oct 9, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Ricardo Signes wrote:

    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Strongly agree.
    * I would like one violation of the JSON spec: allow Javascript-style
    comments. My one beef with the JSON spec. Elliot
    Strongly disagree. We don't want to have our own dialect.
    +1

    Graham.
  • David Golden at Oct 9, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Ricardo Signes wrote:
    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Strongly agree.
    * I would like one violation of the JSON spec: allow Javascript-style
    comments. My one beef with the JSON spec. Elliot
    Strongly disagree.  We don't want to have our own dialect.
    I agree with Rick.

    David
  • Barbie at Oct 31, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 09:38:45AM -0400, David Golden wrote:
    On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Ricardo Signes
    wrote:
    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Strongly agree.
    * I would like one violation of the JSON spec: allow Javascript-style
    comments. My one beef with the JSON spec. Elliot
    Strongly disagree.  We don't want to have our own dialect.
    I agree with Rick.

    Sorry to be late to get myself together with following up on these, but
    better late than never hopefully :)

    I see 01, 02 and 03 all part of the same discussion really. There seems
    little point in discussing YAML if we think moving to JSON is the better
    option. I'm with the strongly agree camp on the first part of above :)
    (and with the no new dialect on the second part)

    However, we don't want to suddenly make the whole of CPAN invalid.
    Thankfully as Parse::CPAN::Meta appears to support both, I think we have
    that covered. I'm happy to support JSON in core, but would rather we do
    it visiably rather than under the covers as per the M::B example David
    mentioned in an earlier post.

    Cheers,
    Barbie.
    --
    Birmingham Perl Mongers <http://birmingham.pm.org>
    Memoirs Of A Roadie <http://barbie.missbarbell.co.uk>
    CPAN Testers Blog <http://blog.cpantesters.org>
    YAPC Conference Surveys <http://yapc-surveys.org>
  • David Golden at Oct 31, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Barbie wrote:
    I see 01, 02 and 03 all part of the same discussion really. There seems
    little point in discussing YAML if we think moving to JSON is the better
    option. I'm with the strongly agree camp on the first part of above :)
    (and with the no new dialect on the second part)
    I've actually been thinking that for an upgrade path, it might be
    handy to have tools like M::B, EU::MM, and M::I generate a 1.4
    META.yml and a 2.0 META.json.

    The spec should mandate that tools check the version and not process
    anything they don't understand. Right now, that isn't the case, I
    suspect.
    However, we don't want to suddenly make the whole of CPAN invalid.
    Thankfully as Parse::CPAN::Meta appears to support both, I think we have
    that covered. I'm happy to support JSON in core, but would rather we do
    it visiably rather than under the covers as per the M::B example David
    mentioned in an earlier post.
    Agreed. I've tested the waters on p5p and I think it will be possible
    to move JSON to core once we code up the toolchain to mandate it.

    - David
  • Ricardo Signes at Oct 10, 2009 at 2:46 am
    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Branch available: http://github.com/rjbs/cpan-meta-spec/commits/03-json

    --
    rjbs
  • David Golden at Oct 10, 2009 at 11:06 am

    On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Ricardo Signes wrote:
    * David Golden [2009-10-09T07:42:35]
    03. Deprecate YAML Tiny dialect for JSON
    Branch available: http://github.com/rjbs/cpan-meta-spec/commits/03-json
    +1

    (I guess I just needed to keep reading my email)

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