FAQ
I thought the Perl Beginners' Site - http://perl-begin.org/
was perfect after the last update, but boy I was wrong. A quick review and
critique of the site by a certain prominent Perl developer revealed many
issues with it, and afterwards I had found a lot of stuff that was lacking. So
here's what has changed.

We're now mirroring the public domain "Perl for Newbies" tutorial on
http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/perl-for-newbies/ as well as the GFDLed book
"Impatient Perl" by Greg London ( http://www.greglondon.com/ ). Their
presence on the site was done in order to preserve Perl-Begin's common look
and feel, and to make sure people would be able to access them without
having to go to a different site, which may be blocked by over-zealous
web-filters. We hope to mirror other freely distributable material that
may prove useful to beginners on Perl-Begin in the future.

The "call-for-action" notice at the beginning was changed to
"Learn Perl Now!" and now appears on all the pages.

We also fixed several look and style glitches.

There are also several corrections to the text and the hyperlinks.

Stack Overflow was added to http://perl-begin.org/web-forums/ .

There are now mentionings of two new topical books at
http://perl-begin.org/books/topics/ -
"Perl & LWP" and "Programming the Perl DBI".

Finally, the "About this site" page at http://perl-begin.org/about.html
was updated and made more modern.

We hope you enjoy the new site. If you like it, please recommend it to
your friends - if you don't - let us know and we'll see what we can do. Unless
mentioned otherwise, all the material on http://perl-begin.org/ is made
available under the Creative Commons Attribution Licence (CC-by) for almost
unlimited distribution and re-use.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/ways_to_do_it.html

God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
read.

Search Discussions

  • Steve Fink at Aug 13, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Shlomi Fishwrote:
    We hope you enjoy the new site. If you like it, please recommend it to
    your friends - if you don't - let us know and we'll see what we can do. Unless
    mentioned otherwise, all the material on http://perl-begin.org/ is made
    available under the Creative Commons Attribution Licence (CC-by) for almost
    unlimited distribution and re-use.
    How would you like the replies? I'll just reply all until you tell me otherwise.

    3-second reaction: what do you have against my monitor? Ok, so I have
    some useless windows open much of the time myself, but that's me. If I
    want to splurge and buy myself an excessively large monitor, then
    please don't judge me by forcing your web page to exactly 780 pixels
    wide.

    I'm referring to http://perl-begin.org/style.css line 40 (according to
    Firebug), specifically this CSS:

    #page-container { ... width:780px; }

    Bad!
  • Steve Fink at Aug 14, 2009 at 4:53 am
    I know bits and pieces of CSS well, and large swathes barely at all.

    Since I'm reading this via gmail, and it has a similar layout except
    it resizes nicely, I did a quick Firebug check to see how they do it.

    I would never have guessed. They do exactly what you're doing: use
    absolute numbers of pixels. But when I resize, they apparently do
    Javascripty magic to rewrite those numbers for the new screen size.
    Tricksy hobbitses.

    Want to try doing the same? Seems far easier than doing "real"
    resizeable layout.
  • Shlomi Fish at Aug 19, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    On Friday 14 August 2009 07:53:14 Steve Fink wrote:
    I know bits and pieces of CSS well, and large swathes barely at all.

    Since I'm reading this via gmail, and it has a similar layout except
    it resizes nicely, I did a quick Firebug check to see how they do it.

    I would never have guessed. They do exactly what you're doing: use
    absolute numbers of pixels. But when I resize, they apparently do
    Javascripty magic to rewrite those numbers for the new screen size.
    Tricksy hobbitses.

    Want to try doing the same? Seems far easier than doing "real"
    resizeable layout.
    This seems to be very complex. But patches would be welcome and considered to:

    http://perl-begin.org/source/

    What should we do about the header image at the top which is exactly 780px
    wide and aligns with the rest of the page perfectly? Should we have several
    versions of the same image? Suggestions would be welcome.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish

    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    What Makes Software Apps High Quality - http://xrl.us/bkeuk

    God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
    read.
  • Offer Kaye at Aug 14, 2009 at 4:59 pm

    On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
    I'm referring to http://perl-begin.org/style.css line 40 (according to
    Firebug), specifically this CSS:

    #page-container { ... width:780px; }

    Bad!
    I have to say, the site looks very good visually - I haven't looked at
    the contents yet, but in terms of initial visual impact - it's very
    good. You've chosen a good template :)
    However I have to agree with Steve, having the fixed 780px width is
    annoying. My problem is the reverse of Steve, I have a large screen
    and having all the content crammed in a relatively small area in the
    middle of the screen doesn't add anything.

    Regards,
    --
    Offer Kaye
  • Shlomi Fish at Aug 19, 2009 at 12:48 pm

    On Friday 14 August 2009 19:59:09 Offer Kaye wrote:
    On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Steve Fink wrote:
    I'm referring to http://perl-begin.org/style.css line 40 (according to
    Firebug), specifically this CSS:

    #page-container { ... width:780px; }

    Bad!
    I have to say, the site looks very good visually - I haven't looked at
    the contents yet, but in terms of initial visual impact - it's very
    good. You've chosen a good template :) Thanks.
    However I have to agree with Steve, having the fixed 780px width is
    annoying. My problem is the reverse of Steve, I have a large screen
    and having all the content crammed in a relatively small area in the
    middle of the screen doesn't add anything.
    I was under the impression that this was Steve's problem too. But I'm not
    sure.

    In any case, either we can make the page wider somewhat, or alternatively try
    to hack a more fluid design like Steve suggested.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish
    Regards,
    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    The Case for File Swapping - http://xrl.us/bjn7i

    God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
    read.
  • Denny at Aug 18, 2009 at 10:06 am

    On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 20:38 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
    I thought the Perl Beginners' Site - http://perl-begin.org/
    was perfect after the last update, but boy I was wrong. ...
    We hope you enjoy the new site. If you like it, please recommend it to
    your friends - if you don't - let us know and we'll see what we can do.
    Hi Shlomi,

    I was just looking through Perl-Begin.org and I found this page:
    http://perl-begin.org/learn/get-a-job/

    The (mis)quote at the top of it seems like an incredibly bad idea. It
    doesn't actually illustrate the point in the following text at all, it
    just says that using Perl is 'a problem'. That doesn't seem like a good
    thing to say, imho.

    Regards,
    Denny
  • Shlomi Fish at Aug 19, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    On Tuesday 18 August 2009 13:05:55 Denny wrote:
    On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 20:38 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
    I thought the Perl Beginners' Site - http://perl-begin.org/
    was perfect after the last update, but boy I was wrong. ...
    We hope you enjoy the new site. If you like it, please recommend it to
    your friends - if you don't - let us know and we'll see what we can do.
    Hi Shlomi,

    I was just looking through Perl-Begin.org and I found this page:
    http://perl-begin.org/learn/get-a-job/

    The (mis)quote at the top of it seems like an incredibly bad idea. It
    doesn't actually illustrate the point in the following text at all, it
    just says that using Perl is 'a problem'. That doesn't seem like a good
    thing to say, imho.
    Well, a few people I've talked with about it liked it, but several people like
    you said that this adaptation of Zawinski's quote was not a good idea. The
    quote at the top was meant as a joke and to capture people's attention, but
    I'm no longer sure it delivers. We'll reconsider it.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish
    Regards,
    Denny
    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Rethinking CPAN

    God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
    read.
  • Iftekharul Haque at Aug 19, 2009 at 1:31 pm
    I think the quote at the top of the page "because programming should
    be fun" is quite nice, even if its layout may need some refining.

    Also the green leaf motif is relaxing, I like it.

    It might need a bit of a retouch to soften the colour scheme a bit.
    The default white with sharp blue links is a bit jarring, and the
    bullet lists also look very "default'y."

    Earth colours are nice, but I'm terrible with colours.

    - Ifty.

    On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Shlomi Fishwrote:
    On Tuesday 18 August 2009 13:05:55 Denny wrote:
    On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 20:38 +0300, Shlomi Fish wrote:
    I thought the Perl Beginners' Site - http://perl-begin.org/
    was perfect after the last update, but boy I was wrong. ...
    We hope you enjoy the new site. If you like it, please recommend it to
    your friends - if you don't - let us know and we'll see what we can do.
    Hi Shlomi,

    I was just looking through Perl-Begin.org and I found this page:
    http://perl-begin.org/learn/get-a-job/

    The (mis)quote at the top of it seems like an incredibly bad idea.  It
    doesn't actually illustrate the point in the following text at all, it
    just says that using Perl is 'a problem'.  That doesn't seem like a good
    thing to say, imho.
    Well, a few people I've talked with about it liked it, but several people like
    you said that this adaptation of Zawinski's quote was not a good idea. The
    quote at the top was meant as a joke and to capture people's attention, but
    I'm no longer sure it delivers. We'll reconsider it.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish
    Regards,
    Denny
    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
    Rethinking CPAN

    God gave us two eyes and ten fingers so we will type five times as much as we
    read.
  • Phillip Smith at Aug 19, 2009 at 1:20 pm

    On 19-Aug-09, at 9:45 AM, advocacy-digest-help@perl.org wrote:

    Suggestions would be welcome.
    You should do what the rest of the Web community has done by designing
    for the 80% of people that view your site at a higher resolution (and
    who don't complain) than for the 20% (or less) percent who are still
    surfing at circa 1990 screen resolutions (and who like to complain).

    Seriously: have a look at your Web site statistics and make the
    decision based on real visitor data, and not opinions.

    --
    Phillip Smith // Simplifier of Technology // COMMUNITY BANDWIDTH
    www.communitybandwidth.ca // www.phillipadsmith.com
  • Johan Vromans at Aug 21, 2009 at 6:32 am

    Phillip Smith writes:

    You should do what the rest of the Web community has done ...
    Apparently, the world has forgotten that the web was designed around
    the concept of presenting content with logical markup, where the
    viewer could control how the content must be presented on his screen.

    -- Johan
  • Phillip Smith at Aug 23, 2009 at 9:16 pm

    On 23-Aug-09, at 4:54 AM, advocacy-digest-help@perl.org wrote:
    You should do what the rest of the Web community has done ...
    Apparently, the world has forgotten that the web was designed around
    the concept of presenting content with logical markup, where the
    viewer could control how the content must be presented on his screen.

    -- Johan

    Thankfully, the "world" has realized that 99% of users are too lazy to
    learn about user-specified style sheets and, therefor, has made the
    important visual presentation decisions for them. ;-)

    --
    Phillip Smith // Simplifier of Technology // COMMUNITY BANDWIDTH
    www.communitybandwidth.ca // www.phillipadsmith.com

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