FAQ
Forward:

This is an article I wrote explaining why I like Perl so much. I would like to
thank some distinguished people of my Perl Mongers clique that took the time
to review it and comment.

Hope you enjoy reading it! Feel free to re-use it and re-distribute it or link
to it.

My Perl History:
----------------

When I first learned Perl, I was working right after high-school as a
C/C++ Windows systems programmer in a small startup. The job was very
interesting, but the pay was very low and so I was looking for a better
job. My friend introduced me to a Ran Eilam who was about to finish
his university degree and was planning on starting up his own web-publishing
firm. The year was 1996, and it was the beginning of the Internet craze.

I went to Tel Aviv university, where I met Ran. He accepted me to the job
and said I should learn Perl. Having told him I knew about Berkeley Sockets,
(from my previous workplace) he said that one can write a sockets client in
Perl in 10 lines and a server in 20 lines. He showed a piece of Perl code
he wrote to handle a client's request, which seemed awfully short. I did not
understand what was going on there.

Between Jobs I was given time to adapt to the new workplace. Ran said:
"Shlomi, it takes 10 years to learn UNIX. I want you to learn it in a month".
I set out to install Linux and experiment with UNIX and Perl. When I got the
job, I read the Perl man pages (which I downloaded in PDF format), and also
was able to experiment a bit with Linux.

Needless to say, I was not able to learn UNIX as thoroughly as Ran would
have wished to believe I could. (I can testify that my knowledge back then
was very superficial in comparison to my current one). But I knew it well
enough, and learned more as time went by, to make myself useful there.

I can say that the experience was nothing less than revolving. UNIX was
an epiphany for me. For the first time in my life, I found a system that
worked and behaved like it should. Until then, during the time I experienced
with DOS and Windows 3.x, I knew these systems were bad, but I could not tell
exactly why, because I did not have any point of reference. UNIX, on the other
hand, was a completely logical (albeit sometimes not entirely consistent)
system, that was a joy to work with, even with my superficial mastery of it.

Perl, in a way, was a revelation as well. I finally found a language that
was not only fun to program with (as was the case with BASIC), but also very
practical and usable. It had everything C and BASIC had and more. It
immediately became my favourite language (and still is).

Back then, I even wrote my "shell scripts" in Perl since I did not took the
time to learn shell well. (Since then, I've known of other people who have
followed this trend, and learned shell programming only after learning Perl,
and I expect this trend to grow.)

My knowledge of Perl was almost as superficial as my knowledge of UNIX.
I knew a large part of syntax, the constructs, the basic data structures,
the regular expressions, and even took the time to learn to use references
and nested data structures. However, I did not know how to write modules,
much less objects, and there were many details in the man pages that I did
not pay much attention too. Furthermore, my knowledge of what was present in
CPAN was inadequate and I often re-invented many wheels time and again.

As I went to a different Windows-oriented workplace, I installed Perl and
a UNIX-like environment there. In due time, I learned from experiencing more
about UNIX and more about Perl. A few years down the road, I learned how to
write my own modules and even later on how to write objects
(both were surprisingly easy). I also became familiar with other details
and paradigms of the language, and also now know better how to search for
something in CPAN (and even, gasp, how to use the CPAN.pm module to
automatically install things) so I don't re-invent too many wheels as before.

Why I like Perl so much:
------------------------

I like the fact that Perl is orthogonal and does not force the poor programmer
who wishes to learn it to learn too many paradigms. In Java, for example, the
"Hello World" involves initializing a class and several methods, only to call
the uncivil 'System.out.println("Hello World");'. In Perl, it is simply

print "Hello World!\n"

And you can leave Object Oriented Programming out of it. Furthermore, while
you can use closures; map, grep, sort and friends; objects and inheritance;
modules, etc. you are not forced to use them if you don't want to or don't
know how. Perl is a language that grows with you, and does not force you
to learn all of it in a day.

Some languages (C and Scheme come to mind) are minimalistic. You can learn
them almost entirely after a while and afterwards, nothing will surprise you.
Even if you do encounter a new keyword or a new built-in function, you
are not surprised. Most of the time it was found because you needed to do
something like that, and figured out it must exist.

This is not the case for Perl. In Perl, I constantly felt (and other
people shared my sentiments) that I am learning new things all the time. Not
only that, but they are very enlightening and immediately prove useful in
future programs.

Many times I found paradigms in other languages or books and discovered
they were readily applicable in Perl. For instance, after reading the
excellent book "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" and seeing
how closures could prove to be useful, I tried it in Perl and it
immediately worked. From then on, I sometimes found myself using closures
in Perl.

Another thing that is great about Perl is that it is useful for performing
practical tasks. In some languages I encountered, like Scheme or Haskell,
one always get the feeling that while being nice to play with, they cannot
be effectively used for anything practical. This is not the case for Perl,
that provides both usable and intuitive syntactical primitives as well as
many primitives and open source API's for calling the services of the system.
This is one property that is shared (to a lesser or greater extent) by
similar languages such as Python, Ruby or PHP.

What makes Perl quite unique among most languages, is its "There's more
than one way to do it" philosophy. I, actually, am very fond of this. Any time
I write a script or a module, (even a very trivial one) I am glad I have
several ways I can think of to write it. Contrast this with Python's "There's
only one way to do it", in which the language designers tried to create a
unified way for programmers to use it. If you ask me, a programming language
in which "there's only one way to do it" is almost as bad as a spoken language
in which "there's only one way to say it". Such a language may be easy to
learn, but it certainly won't be fun to use. Neither are such programming
languages.

Larry Wall once noted that Perl in essence tries to be the Tower of Babel
of the programming languages. That you can write Python in Perl, and LISP
in Perl, and BASIC in Perl, and C in Perl. All of this diversity comes with
a cost, as many newcomers will find reading the Perl code of expert
programmers (or of their peers with a different education) very difficult.
It's probably similar trying to understand a text of English by a very
knowledgeable writer when you've only studied it for 6 months.

However, I believe that despite common belief, Perl code is not hard to
understand more than other languages. (unless it's purposely obfuscated).
You just have to be familiar with more idioms, and conventions. It takes
some time, but it's well worth it. Of course, it is possible that you won't
understand what the algorithm of the program is doing. But you can encounter
the latter problem in any language regardless of how rich or poor it is in
programming paradigms.

Perl is also a no-nonsense language. I'm reminded of a time when a person
I know from my university was assigned to write a web-based system for
managing the lab he was working in. He decided that Perl, PHP and Python
all sucked and would rather use his favourite language: C++. It took
him over a year and he did not finish, in what I would estimate as a one
month project using either Perl, PHP or Python. In the midst of this, he kept
telling me about the "beautiful abstractions" he built in C++. Every time,
I kept telling him that in Perl it was equally or more trivial to do.

In C++, one can be tempted to write templates upon templates and classes upon
classes, trying to accomplish what a Perl programmer takes for granted, or can
easily leave alone as a necessary pattern in the code. So, in a sense it is
not a no-nonsense language. Java and ANSI C are much better, in that sense.
Thus, one does not need to wonder why most compiled open source software is
written in C, including the interpreters and back-ends for some highly object
oriented languages.

You can hear many complaints about the Perl syntax. (I even heard that Perl
is "a syntactical disaster"). However, I actually like it. The reason is that
I
can immediately tell what's going on by looking at the code. If I see a dollar
sign it usually indicates that there's a scalar involved. If I see square
brackets, I know it's an array subscript, etc. Larry Wall said in one of his
speeches, that in LISP all the code comes in parenthesis, so all the code
looks the same. Perl is the exact opposite of LISP, in this regard, and a
Perl code brings out the data structures and operations that are performed.

Perl has spawned an interesting culture around it. From countless
local Perl mongers groups, to mailing lists dedicated to any Perl topic,
to the many modules of CPAN (some of which are downright useless, but
still fun), to many web-sites with lots of good resources there. In fact,
it is very fun being a part of the Perl community, which cares about so much
more than writing Perl code for a living. (even though many people do that
and there's nothing wrong with it). For the Perl community, Perl is fun, and
it keeps trying to find more fun things to do with it.

Larry Wall as a Linguist, tried to make Perl feel like a natural language.
And it indeed does, more than any other language I have encountered. I,
recall an incident that happened to me in high school. In English class,
we were taught about forming speeches (the standard "First of all,",
"Moreover/Furthermore", "To sum up" stuff). Then we played the balloon
game: we were split into teams and given an assignment to write a speech
together, in which we had to explain why we of all the other people in
the balloon had to be saved.

Now, most of the speeches given in class were quite mechanical: "First of
all... moreover... furthermore... to sum up,". I, however, assumed the role
of President Roosevelt after the Pearl Harbor attack, and wrote a nice speech
in which I don't think I've used any of these key-words once. (I also
volunteered to give the speech first and so was able to read it from the
paper). It ended up being the Teacher's favourite, and won third place.
(because two of the other speeches were funny, but in my humble
and prejudiced opinion, quite lame as well)

The moral of the story is, that you can't survive with knowing the technique
alone when writing prose. You need to know how to make it flow together. In
a sense Perl is not about technique alone. Knowing the syntax, the keywords
and the functions can only get you so far. But you still need to know how to
write beautiful programs that will make the one who reads them say "Wow!".
To quote Abelman and Sussman from "Structure and Interpretation of Computer
Programs": "Programs should be written for people to read,
and only incidentally for machines to execute."


Recent History:
---------------

A couple of years ago, life was brought into the dormant Israeli
Perl community. A web-site was being maintained, monthly
meetings are now the norm, and there's also an active mailing list. We
even had a perl conference (YAPC::Israel::2003) and planning to have another
one. I am grateful for the people who made this happen.

I don't know how much we were able to introduce more people to using Perl in
Israel, but we certainly have a lot of fun learning new things from each
other.

I now meet Ran Eilam (who as you may remember introduced me to Perl in the
first place), in our monthly meetings. Having spent the time we were apart
in the industry working for his living, he is now full of various industry
trends (and hypes), advocates "Extreme Programming" and calls user-interface
geometry managers, "the geometry manager pattern". (I guess that what
happens during all the time you spend studying in university, and hacking
on open-source software) He still seems to be very productive, and gave some
very good presentations to the local Perl Mongers.

I still did not spend the time I learned in the Technion doing nothing. I did
my best to learn as much as possible about UNIX and Perl (which I think is
the language that encompasses its spirit in the best way). I recently read
the third edition of the Camel Book which I borrowed from the Perl Mongers
Library. I learned so many new things as I have read it (even though
beforehand, I was by no means a Perl newcomer), that I had to buy it. (which
I did)

I don't regret specializing in UNIX and Perl. One constantly hear about
all those over-hyped technologies: the Java world on one end and the
Windows and .NET on the other. Don't get me started for my opinion on
Windows - I don't work on it, except if I don't have a choice. Java is
a nice language, but shivers in comparison to Perl. .NET seems like something
a bit better than Java, but still closer to it than Perl. I'll take the time
to learn it, if and when I need to. (its promises of cross-language
programming are pretty void, because it's mostly the same language with a few
syntactical differences).

UNIX and Perl both seem to have a bright future ahead of them. They may
not have the hype machine that other technologies have, and nor do they
desire them. But they are both very rich, usable and functional
technologies, and their quality speak for itself.

Eric Raymond claims in "The Art of UNIX Programming" this:

Python has risen in popularity as rapidly as Tcl has fallen. Though the
Perl community is still twice the size of Python's, a visible tendency of
the brightest Perl hackers to migrate to Python has been rather ominous
for the former language, especially as there is no migration at all in
the opposite direction.

I'm not sure if I qualify as one of the brightest Perl programmers (after all,
the baker cannot testify for his dough). But I know a few very bright Perl
programmers who avoid Python like the plague. And I don't see prominent Perl
figures like Larry Wall, Tom Christiansen, Randal L. Schwartz, Damian Conway,
Mark Jason Dominus, etc. converting to Python. (even though I'm pretty sure
they know it well). I think this trend is an indication of a fact: Perl is not
for everybody. All the qualities I described can sometimes lure people away
from it into the beauty of the much different Python. And that's good,
because,
I don't think one language can actually be suitable for everybody, and I'd
rather have co-programmers who _love_ the languages they program in. (and for
the record, I read something by someone who claimed Java was much better than
either Perl, Python or Tcl, so you can't tell)

But Python is not for me. Once a distinguished Haifa Linux Club member gave
a lecture about Python, and after looking at his slides, I wrote to him to
tell him that they convinced me that Python was not my cup of tea. Moreover,
during the lecture I asked him if some of my favourite features in Perl were
present there, and almost always consistently discovered that they were not.
Needless to say, it did not made me more convinced.

So, I don't think we should feel intimated by Python any time now. Not anymore
than Cats should be intimated by Dogs for people's affection. (I'm not trying
to make a generalization between the two divisions - there isn't any).

So, keep the Shift key and the "4" key on your keybords in order, because
you'll need to use them a lot in your future.

-------------------------------------

Regards,

Shlomi Fish

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish shlomif@iglu.org.il
Homepage: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died.
I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.

Search Discussions

  • Mark Jacobsen at Feb 11, 2004 at 6:02 pm

    At 09:37 AM 2/11/2004, Shlomi Fish wrote:
    Forward:

    This is an article I wrote explaining why I like Perl so much. I would
    like to
    thank some distinguished people of my Perl Mongers clique that took the time
    to review it and comment.

    Hope you enjoy reading it! Feel free to re-use it and re-distribute it or
    link
    to it.

    My Perl History:
    ----------------

    When I first learned Perl, I was working right after high-school as a
    C/C++ Windows systems programmer in a small startup. The job was very
    interesting, but the pay was very low and so I was looking for a better
    job. My friend introduced me to a Ran Eilam who was about to finish
    his university degree and was planning on starting up his own web-publishing
    firm. The year was 1996, and it was the beginning of the Internet craze.

    I went to Tel Aviv university, where I met Ran. He accepted me to the job
    and said I should learn Perl. Having told him I knew about Berkeley Sockets,
    (from my previous workplace) he said that one can write a sockets client in
    Perl in 10 lines and a server in 20 lines. He showed a piece of Perl code
    he wrote to handle a client's request, which seemed awfully short. I did not
    understand what was going on there.

    Between Jobs I was given time to adapt to the new workplace. Ran said:
    "Shlomi, it takes 10 years to learn UNIX. I want you to learn it in a month".
    I set out to install Linux and experiment with UNIX and Perl. When I got the
    job, I read the Perl man pages (which I downloaded in PDF format), and also
    was able to experiment a bit with Linux.

    Needless to say, I was not able to learn UNIX as thoroughly as Ran would
    have wished to believe I could. (I can testify that my knowledge back then
    was very superficial in comparison to my current one). But I knew it well
    enough, and learned more as time went by, to make myself useful there.

    I can say that the experience was nothing less than revolving. UNIX was
    an epiphany for me. For the first time in my life, I found a system that
    worked and behaved like it should. Until then, during the time I experienced
    with DOS and Windows 3.x, I knew these systems were bad, but I could not tell
    exactly why, because I did not have any point of reference. UNIX, on the other
    hand, was a completely logical (albeit sometimes not entirely consistent)
    system, that was a joy to work with, even with my superficial mastery of it.

    Perl, in a way, was a revelation as well. I finally found a language that
    was not only fun to program with (as was the case with BASIC), but also very
    practical and usable. It had everything C and BASIC had and more. It
    immediately became my favourite language (and still is).

    Back then, I even wrote my "shell scripts" in Perl since I did not took the
    time to learn shell well. (Since then, I've known of other people who have
    followed this trend, and learned shell programming only after learning Perl,
    and I expect this trend to grow.)

    My knowledge of Perl was almost as superficial as my knowledge of UNIX.
    I knew a large part of syntax, the constructs, the basic data structures,
    the regular expressions, and even took the time to learn to use references
    and nested data structures. However, I did not know how to write modules,
    much less objects, and there were many details in the man pages that I did
    not pay much attention too. Furthermore, my knowledge of what was present in
    CPAN was inadequate and I often re-invented many wheels time and again.

    As I went to a different Windows-oriented workplace, I installed Perl and
    a UNIX-like environment there. In due time, I learned from experiencing more
    about UNIX and more about Perl. A few years down the road, I learned how to
    write my own modules and even later on how to write objects
    (both were surprisingly easy). I also became familiar with other details
    and paradigms of the language, and also now know better how to search for
    something in CPAN (and even, gasp, how to use the CPAN.pm module to
    automatically install things) so I don't re-invent too many wheels as before.

    Why I like Perl so much:
    ------------------------

    I like the fact that Perl is orthogonal and does not force the poor programmer
    who wishes to learn it to learn too many paradigms. In Java, for example, the
    "Hello World" involves initializing a class and several methods, only to call
    the uncivil 'System.out.println("Hello World");'. In Perl, it is simply

    print "Hello World!\n"

    And you can leave Object Oriented Programming out of it. Furthermore, while
    you can use closures; map, grep, sort and friends; objects and inheritance;
    modules, etc. you are not forced to use them if you don't want to or don't
    know how. Perl is a language that grows with you, and does not force you
    to learn all of it in a day.

    Some languages (C and Scheme come to mind) are minimalistic. You can learn
    them almost entirely after a while and afterwards, nothing will surprise you.
    Even if you do encounter a new keyword or a new built-in function, you
    are not surprised. Most of the time it was found because you needed to do
    something like that, and figured out it must exist.

    This is not the case for Perl. In Perl, I constantly felt (and other
    people shared my sentiments) that I am learning new things all the time. Not
    only that, but they are very enlightening and immediately prove useful in
    future programs.

    Many times I found paradigms in other languages or books and discovered
    they were readily applicable in Perl. For instance, after reading the
    excellent book "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" and seeing
    how closures could prove to be useful, I tried it in Perl and it
    immediately worked. From then on, I sometimes found myself using closures
    in Perl.

    Another thing that is great about Perl is that it is useful for performing
    practical tasks. In some languages I encountered, like Scheme or Haskell,
    one always get the feeling that while being nice to play with, they cannot
    be effectively used for anything practical. This is not the case for Perl,
    that provides both usable and intuitive syntactical primitives as well as
    many primitives and open source API's for calling the services of the system.
    This is one property that is shared (to a lesser or greater extent) by
    similar languages such as Python, Ruby or PHP.

    What makes Perl quite unique among most languages, is its "There's more
    than one way to do it" philosophy. I, actually, am very fond of this. Any time
    I write a script or a module, (even a very trivial one) I am glad I have
    several ways I can think of to write it. Contrast this with Python's "There's
    only one way to do it", in which the language designers tried to create a
    unified way for programmers to use it. If you ask me, a programming language
    in which "there's only one way to do it" is almost as bad as a spoken language
    in which "there's only one way to say it". Such a language may be easy to
    learn, but it certainly won't be fun to use. Neither are such programming
    languages.

    Larry Wall once noted that Perl in essence tries to be the Tower of Babel
    of the programming languages. That you can write Python in Perl, and LISP
    in Perl, and BASIC in Perl, and C in Perl. All of this diversity comes with
    a cost, as many newcomers will find reading the Perl code of expert
    programmers (or of their peers with a different education) very difficult.
    It's probably similar trying to understand a text of English by a very
    knowledgeable writer when you've only studied it for 6 months.

    However, I believe that despite common belief, Perl code is not hard to
    understand more than other languages. (unless it's purposely obfuscated).
    You just have to be familiar with more idioms, and conventions. It takes
    some time, but it's well worth it. Of course, it is possible that you won't
    understand what the algorithm of the program is doing. But you can encounter
    the latter problem in any language regardless of how rich or poor it is in
    programming paradigms.

    Perl is also a no-nonsense language. I'm reminded of a time when a person
    I know from my university was assigned to write a web-based system for
    managing the lab he was working in. He decided that Perl, PHP and Python
    all sucked and would rather use his favourite language: C++. It took
    him over a year and he did not finish, in what I would estimate as a one
    month project using either Perl, PHP or Python. In the midst of this, he kept
    telling me about the "beautiful abstractions" he built in C++. Every time,
    I kept telling him that in Perl it was equally or more trivial to do.

    In C++, one can be tempted to write templates upon templates and classes upon
    classes, trying to accomplish what a Perl programmer takes for granted, or can
    easily leave alone as a necessary pattern in the code. So, in a sense it is
    not a no-nonsense language. Java and ANSI C are much better, in that sense.
    Thus, one does not need to wonder why most compiled open source software is
    written in C, including the interpreters and back-ends for some highly object
    oriented languages.

    You can hear many complaints about the Perl syntax. (I even heard that Perl
    is "a syntactical disaster"). However, I actually like it. The reason is that
    I
    can immediately tell what's going on by looking at the code. If I see a dollar
    sign it usually indicates that there's a scalar involved. If I see square
    brackets, I know it's an array subscript, etc. Larry Wall said in one of his
    speeches, that in LISP all the code comes in parenthesis, so all the code
    looks the same. Perl is the exact opposite of LISP, in this regard, and a
    Perl code brings out the data structures and operations that are performed.

    Perl has spawned an interesting culture around it. From countless
    local Perl mongers groups, to mailing lists dedicated to any Perl topic,
    to the many modules of CPAN (some of which are downright useless, but
    still fun), to many web-sites with lots of good resources there. In fact,
    it is very fun being a part of the Perl community, which cares about so much
    more than writing Perl code for a living. (even though many people do that
    and there's nothing wrong with it). For the Perl community, Perl is fun, and
    it keeps trying to find more fun things to do with it.

    Larry Wall as a Linguist, tried to make Perl feel like a natural language.
    And it indeed does, more than any other language I have encountered. I,
    recall an incident that happened to me in high school. In English class,
    we were taught about forming speeches (the standard "First of all,",
    "Moreover/Furthermore", "To sum up" stuff). Then we played the balloon
    game: we were split into teams and given an assignment to write a speech
    together, in which we had to explain why we of all the other people in
    the balloon had to be saved.

    Now, most of the speeches given in class were quite mechanical: "First of
    all... moreover... furthermore... to sum up,". I, however, assumed the role
    of President Roosevelt after the Pearl Harbor attack, and wrote a nice speech
    in which I don't think I've used any of these key-words once. (I also
    volunteered to give the speech first and so was able to read it from the
    paper). It ended up being the Teacher's favourite, and won third place.
    (because two of the other speeches were funny, but in my humble
    and prejudiced opinion, quite lame as well)

    The moral of the story is, that you can't survive with knowing the technique
    alone when writing prose. You need to know how to make it flow together. In
    a sense Perl is not about technique alone. Knowing the syntax, the keywords
    and the functions can only get you so far. But you still need to know how to
    write beautiful programs that will make the one who reads them say "Wow!".
    To quote Abelman and Sussman from "Structure and Interpretation of Computer
    Programs": "Programs should be written for people to read,
    and only incidentally for machines to execute."


    Recent History:
    ---------------

    A couple of years ago, life was brought into the dormant Israeli
    Perl community. A web-site was being maintained, monthly
    meetings are now the norm, and there's also an active mailing list. We
    even had a perl conference (YAPC::Israel::2003) and planning to have another
    one. I am grateful for the people who made this happen.

    I don't know how much we were able to introduce more people to using Perl in
    Israel, but we certainly have a lot of fun learning new things from each
    other.

    I now meet Ran Eilam (who as you may remember introduced me to Perl in the
    first place), in our monthly meetings. Having spent the time we were apart
    in the industry working for his living, he is now full of various industry
    trends (and hypes), advocates "Extreme Programming" and calls user-interface
    geometry managers, "the geometry manager pattern". (I guess that what
    happens during all the time you spend studying in university, and hacking
    on open-source software) He still seems to be very productive, and gave some
    very good presentations to the local Perl Mongers.

    I still did not spend the time I learned in the Technion doing nothing. I did
    my best to learn as much as possible about UNIX and Perl (which I think is
    the language that encompasses its spirit in the best way). I recently read
    the third edition of the Camel Book which I borrowed from the Perl Mongers
    Library. I learned so many new things as I have read it (even though
    beforehand, I was by no means a Perl newcomer), that I had to buy it. (which
    I did)

    I don't regret specializing in UNIX and Perl. One constantly hear about
    all those over-hyped technologies: the Java world on one end and the
    Windows and .NET on the other. Don't get me started for my opinion on
    Windows - I don't work on it, except if I don't have a choice. Java is
    a nice language, but shivers in comparison to Perl. .NET seems like something
    a bit better than Java, but still closer to it than Perl. I'll take the time
    to learn it, if and when I need to. (its promises of cross-language
    programming are pretty void, because it's mostly the same language with a few
    syntactical differences).

    UNIX and Perl both seem to have a bright future ahead of them. They may
    not have the hype machine that other technologies have, and nor do they
    desire them. But they are both very rich, usable and functional
    technologies, and their quality speak for itself.

    Eric Raymond claims in "The Art of UNIX Programming" this:

    Python has risen in popularity as rapidly as Tcl has fallen. Though the
    Perl community is still twice the size of Python's, a visible
    tendency of
    the brightest Perl hackers to migrate to Python has been rather ominous
    for the former language, especially as there is no migration at all in
    the opposite direction.

    I'm not sure if I qualify as one of the brightest Perl programmers (after all,
    the baker cannot testify for his dough). But I know a few very bright Perl
    programmers who avoid Python like the plague. And I don't see prominent Perl
    figures like Larry Wall, Tom Christiansen, Randal L. Schwartz, Damian Conway,
    Mark Jason Dominus, etc. converting to Python. (even though I'm pretty sure
    they know it well). I think this trend is an indication of a fact: Perl is not
    for everybody. All the qualities I described can sometimes lure people away
    from it into the beauty of the much different Python. And that's good,
    because,
    I don't think one language can actually be suitable for everybody, and I'd
    rather have co-programmers who _love_ the languages they program in. (and for
    the record, I read something by someone who claimed Java was much better than
    either Perl, Python or Tcl, so you can't tell)

    But Python is not for me. Once a distinguished Haifa Linux Club member gave
    a lecture about Python, and after looking at his slides, I wrote to him to
    tell him that they convinced me that Python was not my cup of tea. Moreover,
    during the lecture I asked him if some of my favourite features in Perl were
    present there, and almost always consistently discovered that they were not.
    Needless to say, it did not made me more convinced.

    So, I don't think we should feel intimated by Python any time now. Not anymore
    than Cats should be intimated by Dogs for people's affection. (I'm not trying
    to make a generalization between the two divisions - there isn't any).

    So, keep the Shift key and the "4" key on your keybords in order, because
    you'll need to use them a lot in your future.

    -------------------------------------

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish

    --

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish shlomif@iglu.org.il
    Homepage: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

    I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died.
    I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.
    Mark P. Jacobsen
    Exec VP, New Ventures/Business Development
    O'Reilly & Associates
    1005 Gravenstein Hwy North
    Sebastopol, CA 95472
    707-827-7140 (direct)
    707-823-9746 (fax)
  • Shlomi Fish at Feb 11, 2004 at 6:56 pm
    Hi Mr. Jacobsen!

    I cannot unsubscribe you from the list. To do so, please send an empty message
    to advocacy-unsubscribe@perl.org and handle the reply. This should
    unsubscribe you.

    Sending a message to the mailing list with this title is not enough to do so,
    unless the moderator does so manually.

    And next time, please don't quote the entire message (which happened to be
    very long) in your request. You just increased the traffic on the list by
    two.

    Regards,

    Shlomi Fish
    On Wednesday 11 February 2004 20:03, Mark Jacobsen wrote:

    Mark P. Jacobsen
    Exec VP, New Ventures/Business Development
    O'Reilly & Associates
    1005 Gravenstein Hwy North
    Sebastopol, CA 95472
    707-827-7140 (direct)
    707-823-9746 (fax)
    --

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shlomi Fish shlomif@iglu.org.il
    Homepage: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

    I don't believe in fairies. Oops! A fairy died.
    I don't believe in fairies. Oops! Another fairy died.

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postedFeb 11, '04 at 5:39p
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