FAQ
------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: Siegfried Göschl <siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at>
To: jvanzyl@maven.org
Subject: Re: Corporate constructive criticism
Date sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:41:51 +0200

Jason wrote :

"I definitely think Ant is your best bet and I have always encouraged
the use of Ant for people who have large existing builds. It a lot of
cases it's not worth switching."

There is a third option - I just integrated MAVEN into an existing
ANT build environment without giving up the "large existing build"
(400 KByte of ANT scripts) and more than 100 subprojects.

Basically I reap the report generation of MAVEN and everything else
is done by the existing ANT build plus a few more ANT scripts for
invoking MAVEN. The setup is not for the "faint hearted" but there
was no other way doing it with the given timeframe of two weeks.

Cheers,

Siegfried Goeschl
On 27 Sep 2003 at 10:16, Jason van Zyl wrote:
On Sat, 2003-09-27 at 05:40, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
From: "Geir Magnusson Jr." <geirm@adeptra.com>
I'm in a 30 person company with a development team of 5 and we
have a separate dev environment, qa environment and of course
production environments. By separate I mean really, really
separate - separate firewalls, separate DMZ's, separate secure
areas. Can't get from one to another.
Well different companies will do it differently. Maybe I should
be
clear - I want dist:deploy to deploy to other developers in the
company, not an external website. At present dist:deploy only
supports ssh, and thats just no use to me.

At present I have stopped working on using Maven. If it takes 3
days
with Maven to not achieve what you want, then is it worth it?
Absolutely not.
At some point
everybody gives up. I know ant will give me less. But it will
work.
I definitely think Ant is your best bet and I have always
encouraged
the use of Ant for people who have large existing builds. It a lot of
cases it's not worth switching.
You should know that I don't feel good writing this. I'm sure
that
for you guys, it all seems to work great and well. But I can't
spend
forever on trial and error attempts.
Nope, I wouldn't either. You need to use what gets the job done for
you. And unfortunately it is true that Maven has become a little
complicated with our use of unstructured Jelly. Something that will be
remedied on the path to 2.0.
Especially as I don't feel that what I am trying
to do is that complicated.
Still if it's not doing what you need you can't use it. Fair enough.
If Ant does what you need then use it.
I will probably use maven just to do site:deploy (that works well
:-). The rest will be ant. Maybe I'll look again after version
1.0.
Sorry.

Stephen



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jvz.

Jason van Zyl
jason@zenplex.com
http://tambora.zenplex.org

In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational
and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it.

-- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society


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Siegfried Goeschl
CTO
=================================
IT20one GmbH
mail: siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at
phone: +43-1-9900046
fax: +43-1-52 37 888
www.it20one.at
Siegfried Goeschl
CTO
=================================

IT20one GmbH
mail: siegfried.goeschl@it20one.at
phone: +43-1-9900046
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  • Joakim Erdfelt at Sep 29, 2003 at 12:44 pm

    Siegfried Göschl wrote:
    There is a third option - I just integrated MAVEN into an existing
    ANT build environment without giving up the "large existing build"
    (400 KByte of ANT scripts) and more than 100 subprojects.

    Basically I reap the report generation of MAVEN and everything else
    is done by the existing ANT build plus a few more ANT scripts for
    invoking MAVEN. The setup is not for the "faint hearted" but there
    was no other way doing it with the given timeframe of two weeks.
    Do you have any "Best Practices" or "Lessons Learned" type tips for this
    kind of hybrid setup? We are also in the process of moving a large
    corporate project into maven, and would greatly benefit from the
    lesson's learned in your setup.

    /* joakim */


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  • Stephen Colebourne at Sep 29, 2003 at 9:03 pm
    Yes, on reflection I realised that a combination of tools could do the job.

    I can successfully do
    - java:compile
    - jar:install
    - site:deploy
    so I will get benefits from maven. It seems to be the distribution and
    release steps where I hit the really hard problems.

    So, question to maven guys - is there a maven ant task?

    Stephen

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Joakim Erdfelt" <joakim@erdfelt.net>
    Siegfried Göschl wrote:
    There is a third option - I just integrated MAVEN into an existing
    ANT build environment without giving up the "large existing build"
    (400 KByte of ANT scripts) and more than 100 subprojects.

    Basically I reap the report generation of MAVEN and everything else
    is done by the existing ANT build plus a few more ANT scripts for
    invoking MAVEN. The setup is not for the "faint hearted" but there
    was no other way doing it with the given timeframe of two weeks.
    Do you have any "Best Practices" or "Lessons Learned" type tips for this
    kind of hybrid setup? We are also in the process of moving a large
    corporate project into maven, and would greatly benefit from the
    lesson's learned in your setup.

    /* joakim */


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  • Steve Garcia at Sep 29, 2003 at 9:08 pm
    There is...

    org.apache.maven.ant.MavenTask

    There is an existing version of it in the maven.jar, and there is a patch
    for it in JIRA that I don't think has been applied yet (it improves on the
    existing archaic task.)

    Should help you out.

    -- Steve
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stephen Colebourne
    Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 2:07 PM
    To: Maven Users List
    Subject: Re: Combining ant and maven (was (Fwd) Re: Corporate
    constructive criticism)


    Yes, on reflection I realised that a combination of tools
    could do the job.

    I can successfully do
    - java:compile
    - jar:install
    - site:deploy
    so I will get benefits from maven. It seems to be the
    distribution and release steps where I hit the really hard problems.

    So, question to maven guys - is there a maven ant task?

    Stephen

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Joakim Erdfelt" <joakim@erdfelt.net>
    Siegfried Göschl wrote:
    There is a third option - I just integrated MAVEN into an
    existing
    ANT build environment without giving up the "large
    existing build"
    (400 KByte of ANT scripts) and more than 100 subprojects.

    Basically I reap the report generation of MAVEN and
    everything else
    is done by the existing ANT build plus a few more ANT scripts for
    invoking MAVEN. The setup is not for the "faint hearted"
    but there
    was no other way doing it with the given timeframe of two weeks.
    Do you have any "Best Practices" or "Lessons Learned" type tips for
    this kind of hybrid setup? We are also in the process of moving a
    large corporate project into maven, and would greatly
    benefit from the
    lesson's learned in your setup.

    /* joakim */


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  • Brett Porter at Sep 29, 2003 at 10:05 pm
    Before integrating maven into ant, I'd consider which flow suits you best.
    Starting maven is slower than using ant inside maven, so you may be better
    off again putting your existing ant code into maven.xml, or a plugin that
    you can share amongst projects.

    This is how I started out (still have it, although maven does most
    everything on its own now).

    - Brett
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stephen Colebourne
    Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2003 7:07 AM
    To: Maven Users List
    Subject: Re: Combining ant and maven (was (Fwd) Re: Corporate
    constructive criticism)


    Yes, on reflection I realised that a combination of tools
    could do the job.

    I can successfully do
    - java:compile
    - jar:install
    - site:deploy
    so I will get benefits from maven. It seems to be the
    distribution and release steps where I hit the really hard problems.

    So, question to maven guys - is there a maven ant task?

    Stephen
  • Stephen Colebourne at Sep 29, 2003 at 10:48 pm
    Is there any ant/maven task/goal that lists all the properties in scope with
    their values? This would seem like one way to help users write scripts in
    maven where maven is creating undocumented properties by itself.

    Stephen

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Brett Porter" <bporter@f2network.com.au>
    Before integrating maven into ant, I'd consider which flow suits you best.
    Starting maven is slower than using ant inside maven, so you may be better
    off again putting your existing ant code into maven.xml, or a plugin that
    you can share amongst projects.

    This is how I started out (still have it, although maven does most
    everything on its own now).

    - Brett
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Stephen Colebourne
    Sent: Tuesday, 30 September 2003 7:07 AM
    To: Maven Users List
    Subject: Re: Combining ant and maven (was (Fwd) Re: Corporate
    constructive criticism)


    Yes, on reflection I realised that a combination of tools
    could do the job.

    I can successfully do
    - java:compile
    - jar:install
    - site:deploy
    so I will get benefits from maven. It seems to be the
    distribution and release steps where I hit the really hard problems.

    So, question to maven guys - is there a maven ant task?

    Stephen

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  • Dion at Sep 30, 2003 at 4:44 am
    "Stephen Colebourne" <scolebourne@btopenworld.com> wrote on 30/09/2003
    08:52:28 AM:
    Is there any ant/maven task/goal that lists all the properties in scope with
    their values? This would seem like one way to help users write scripts in
    maven where maven is creating undocumented properties by itself.

    Stephen
    All plugin properties are defined in the plugin.properties file for that
    plugin, and SHOULD be documented on their home page.

    I'd rather we get the documentation right.

    There are multiple 'scopes', as well.

    Which properties are you looking for?
    --
    dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting
    Blog: http://blogs.codehaus.org/people/dion/




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