FAQ
Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
used since it is more efficient?

If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
database?

Thanks a lot in advance!

ND
-----Original Message-----
From: payo
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
Subject: indexing database


hi to all

i can index a database with nutch?

i am use nutch 0.8.1

thanks
--
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Search Discussions

  • Darren Hartford at Mar 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm
    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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  • Will Johnson at Mar 4, 2008 at 7:18 pm
    Don't forget the number 1 reason: speed. For certain types of queries a
    search engine can return results orders of magnitude faster than a database.
    I've seen search engines return hits in hundreds of milliseconds when the
    same database query took hours or even days. That's not to say that a
    search engine is always better, just the it often times is for when the
    inputs and outputs are carefully defined.

    - will

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Darren Hartford
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:52 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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  • Duan, Nick at Mar 4, 2008 at 7:28 pm
    Hmm, I guess that's because a database query returns a list of records,
    whereas search engine returns only the links, not the actual content.
    So a search engine works only in the index space, whereas a database
    query engine would have to work in both index and content space...


    ND

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Johnson
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:18 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Don't forget the number 1 reason: speed. For certain types of queries a
    search engine can return results orders of magnitude faster than a
    database.
    I've seen search engines return hits in hundreds of milliseconds when
    the
    same database query took hours or even days. That's not to say that a
    search engine is always better, just the it often times is for when the
    inputs and outputs are carefully defined.

    - will

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Darren Hartford
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:52 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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  • Will Johnson at Mar 4, 2008 at 8:00 pm
    Not necessarily, many of the high traffic search sites on the market today
    for everything from yellow pages to job boards to ecommerce sites use search
    engines to exclusively search *and* retrieve/serve content. The key is that
    they don't have to return all matching rows only the 'best' which are
    probably the ones you would want anyways.

    - will

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:29 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Hmm, I guess that's because a database query returns a list of records,
    whereas search engine returns only the links, not the actual content.
    So a search engine works only in the index space, whereas a database
    query engine would have to work in both index and content space...


    ND

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Johnson
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:18 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Don't forget the number 1 reason: speed. For certain types of queries a
    search engine can return results orders of magnitude faster than a
    database.
    I've seen search engines return hits in hundreds of milliseconds when
    the
    same database query took hours or even days. That's not to say that a
    search engine is always better, just the it often times is for when the
    inputs and outputs are carefully defined.

    - will

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Darren Hartford
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:52 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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  • Chris Lu at Mar 4, 2008 at 10:27 pm
    Hi, Nick,

    Lucene Index in a sense is more like another kind of database indexes,
    because it's inverted, etc.

    If we ask why we need many database indexes, the answer is, different
    query execution path.
    Same thing for Lucene index, which is faster for term matching.

    Lucene index actually can do more. For example, facet-search, which
    tells you how many matches in each category(facet), in addition to the
    matched results. This way is more convenient for websites to display
    results, and provide additional links for users to narrow down the
    results.

    --
    Chris Lu
    -------------------------
    Instant Scalable Full-Text Search On Any Database/Application
    site: http://www.dbsight.net
    demo: http://search.dbsight.com
    Lucene Database Search in 3 minutes:
    http://wiki.dbsight.com/index.php?title=Create_Lucene_Database_Search_in_3_minutes
    DBSight customer, a shopping comparison site, (anonymous per request)
    got 2.6 Million Euro funding!

    On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Duan, Nick wrote:
    Hmm, I guess that's because a database query returns a list of records,
    whereas search engine returns only the links, not the actual content.
    So a search engine works only in the index space, whereas a database
    query engine would have to work in both index and content space...


    ND



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Johnson
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:18 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Don't forget the number 1 reason: speed. For certain types of queries a
    search engine can return results orders of magnitude faster than a
    database.
    I've seen search engines return hits in hundreds of milliseconds when
    the
    same database query took hours or even days. That's not to say that a
    search engine is always better, just the it often times is for when the
    inputs and outputs are carefully defined.

    - will

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Darren Hartford
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:52 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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  • Erick Erickson at Mar 5, 2008 at 1:11 am
    And one other point. You probably *don't* need a search engine for your
    database *if* you don't have much textual data. That is, if your database
    consists of "classical" tables with columns like "firstname", "lastname",
    etc.

    But if your database has columns in it containing, say, a page of text then
    searching that text is a real pain. *That's* where a search engine shines.

    Searching a large DB text field for a single word becomes...er...awkward.

    That said, there's a long thread on the Lucene thread that I didn't
    understand
    at all concerning embedding Lucene in Oracle. You might try looking at
    the searchable Lucene threads for that...

    Best
    Erick
    On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Chris Lu wrote:

    Hi, Nick,

    Lucene Index in a sense is more like another kind of database indexes,
    because it's inverted, etc.

    If we ask why we need many database indexes, the answer is, different
    query execution path.
    Same thing for Lucene index, which is faster for term matching.

    Lucene index actually can do more. For example, facet-search, which
    tells you how many matches in each category(facet), in addition to the
    matched results. This way is more convenient for websites to display
    results, and provide additional links for users to narrow down the
    results.

    --
    Chris Lu
    -------------------------
    Instant Scalable Full-Text Search On Any Database/Application
    site: http://www.dbsight.net
    demo: http://search.dbsight.com
    Lucene Database Search in 3 minutes:

    http://wiki.dbsight.com/index.php?title=Create_Lucene_Database_Search_in_3_minutes
    DBSight customer, a shopping comparison site, (anonymous per request)
    got 2.6 Million Euro funding!

    On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Duan, Nick wrote:
    Hmm, I guess that's because a database query returns a list of records,
    whereas search engine returns only the links, not the actual content.
    So a search engine works only in the index space, whereas a database
    query engine would have to work in both index and content space...


    ND



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Will Johnson
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:18 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)
    Don't forget the number 1 reason: speed. For certain types of queries a
    search engine can return results orders of magnitude faster than a
    database.
    I've seen search engines return hits in hundreds of milliseconds when
    the
    same database query took hours or even days. That's not to say that a
    search engine is always better, just the it often times is for when the
    inputs and outputs are carefully defined.

    - will

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Darren Hartford
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:52 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: RE: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)
    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use
    nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism
    be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing
    the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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  • Shalin Shekhar Mangar at Mar 5, 2008 at 11:28 am
    Hi,

    We have built a data import tool which can read from Databases and add
    them to Solr. We found that making content available for full text
    search and faceted search was a common use case and usually everyone
    ends up writing a custom ETL based tool for this task. Therefore we're
    contributing this back to the Solr project.

    Please look at https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-469 for
    details. A user guide is provided at
    http://wiki.apache.org/solr/DataImportHandler

    I realize that having such a tool for lucene would also be helpful for
    a large audience. However, currently we're more focused on Solr since
    we don't use lucene directly in our own production environments.
    On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Darren Hartford wrote:
    Indexing with lucene/nutch on top of/instead of DB indexing for:

    1) relativity scoring
    2) alias searching (i.e. a large amount of aliases, like first names)
    3) highlighting
    4) cross-datasource searching (multi DB, DB + XML files, etc).

    As for best approach to externally index, I do not have any direct
    pointers. I would recommend looking at an ETL tool that can be extended
    for this purpose (I've started writing a plugin for Pentaho, but got
    pulled off and haven't finished it -- and that was for Solr, not
    lucene/nutch).

    -D


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Duan, Nick
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:33 PM
    To: java-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: Why indexing database is necessary? (RE: indexing database)

    Could anyone provide any insight on why someone would use nutch/lucene
    or any other search engines to index relational databases? With use
    cases if possible? Shouldn't the database's own indexing mechanism be
    used since it is more efficient?

    If there is such a need of indexing the database content using search
    engines, what would be the best approach other than de-normalizing the
    database?

    Thanks a lot in advance!

    ND
    -----Original Message-----
    From: payo
    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 12:36 PM
    To: nutch-user@lucene.apache.org
    Subject: indexing database


    hi to all

    i can index a database with nutch?

    i am use nutch 0.8.1

    thanks
    --
    View this message in context:
    http://www.nabble.com/indexing-database-tp15832696p15832696.html
    Sent from the Nutch - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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    --
    Regards,
    Shalin Shekhar Mangar.

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