Hello,

I work for a company that uses PHP. In my free time I write Ruby apps. My
manager recently "discovered" Heroku (which I had been using for a while)
which spawned a discussion about eventually switching languages to start
doing Ruby development (which would be awesome for me). However, my
co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch to
Java because Ruby is a dying language.

I just about fell out of my seat. *Dying* language? Far from it! Every
company I know is deploying Ruby applications!

However, I don't have any stats to support this. I only have my experience
and love of the language to base my opinions on. Do you know where I can
find articles/statistics on Ruby adoption and how I can convince my
co-worker(s) that Ruby is the way to go?

Thanks,
Andrew

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-talk/-/qop4z-1g07EJ.
To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.

Search Discussions

  • Bill Walton at Oct 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm
    Hi Andrew,
    On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Andrew wrote:
    Do you know where I can find articles/statistics on Ruby adoption
    It's going to be difficult to get good data. The biggest reason,
    IMHO, is that companies that do adopt RoR are going to be doing so for
    the productivity. If it works, they're not going to talk about it.
    That's what 'strategic advantages' are all about. Keep your mouth
    shut and hope your competitors don't figure it out.

    If you're convinced that you need hard data then I'd recommend looking
    for secondary indicators: growth of hosting providers is one. How
    many are there today vs. 2 years ago. Do they say anything about
    customer base? What about financial condition? There are tertiary
    indicators as well. Of those hosting providers, how many moved into
    new digs this year? They moving up? Or scaling back? I doubt very
    seriously that the leg-work will pay off (see below for why) but it
    would be an interesting exercise. If you do undertake it, I'm sure
    you'll be able to find a publisher who'll pay you a small amount (way
    out of proportion if you do the per-hour calculation, so don't ;-) )
    to publish it.
    and how I can convince my co-worker(s) that Ruby is the way to go?
    You probably can't 'convince' them. The choice isn't so much rational
    as it is personal preference. There are, IME, two ends to the
    programmer-preference spectrum: Java and Rails.

    The spectrum is most easily characterized by the individual's
    tolerance for delay in the gratification / feedback loop. I liken the
    Java end to the guys who build the huge, elaborate domino knock-down
    displays. Please understand that I am not criticizing at all; simply
    making an observation on human nature. The domino guys get a big dose
    of gratification when the dominoes all fall. But it's not about the
    dominoes falling. It's about the validation that all the setup steps
    were done perfectly. It's the validation that counts. If the
    dominoes all fell because the ground shook, there'd be no joy.

    So if I were you (embarked on organizational change) I'd ignore the
    developers who've already expressed a preference for Java. Focus on
    the ones that may be more attracted to a rapid-feedback model.
    Introduce them gently; perhaps via your local ruby brigade. Get them
    around some folks who are clearly having more fun than them. In any
    event, they'll get some free pizza ;-)

    Good luck and best regards,
    Bill

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Kevin Bedell at Oct 7, 2011 at 8:22 pm
    Specifically to address Ruby being a dying language:


    I find ohloh.net to be a great source of information on topics like this.

    http://www.ohloh.net/p/ruby

    Ruby:

    Source tree:
    http://svn.ruby-lang.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi/

    - Is approaching 1 million lines of code and growing.
    - Has had 46 developers commit code over the last year: "This is one of
    the largest open-source teams in the world, and is in the top 2% of all
    project teams on Ohloh."
    - Is the main language for many other innovative new applications and
    libraries including rails, rubygems, rake, rspec, cucumber, redmine,
    capistrano, haml, and many others. (See
    http://www.ohloh.net/p?sort=users&q=language%3Aruby )

    Anyway, this is just a quick scrape of some stats. There's much more if you
    dig around there and other places.

    Kevin Bedell

    --
    Kevin Bedell
    Principal, Boston Agile Partners
    @kbedell

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Yehezkiel Syamsuhadi at Oct 9, 2011 at 8:22 am
    How about activities in github.com?

    https://github.com/languages

    Ruby is more than double compare to Java.

    Regards,
    Yehezkiel
    On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 5:34 AM, Andrew wrote:
    Hello,
    I work for a company that uses PHP. In my free time I write Ruby apps. My
    manager recently "discovered" Heroku (which I had been using for a while)
    which spawned a discussion about eventually switching languages to start
    doing Ruby development (which would be awesome for me). However, my
    co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.
    I just about fell out of my seat. Dying language? Far from it! Every company
    I know is deploying Ruby applications!
    However, I don't have any stats to support this. I only have my experience
    and love of the language to base my opinions on. Do you know where I can
    find articles/statistics on Ruby adoption and how I can convince my
    co-worker(s) that Ruby is the way to go?
    Thanks,
    Andrew

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
    "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To view this discussion on the web visit
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-talk/-/qop4z-1g07EJ.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
    rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at
    http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Swcool at Oct 9, 2011 at 8:22 am
    See popular languages on github:
    https://github.com/languages
    See popular websites built by RoR:
    http://rubyonrails.org/applications
    On Oct 7, 11:34 am, Andrew wrote:
    Hello,

    I work for a company that uses PHP. In my free time I write Ruby apps. My
    manager recently "discovered" Heroku (which I had been using for a while)
    which spawned a discussion about eventually switching languages to start
    doing Ruby development (which would be awesome for me). However, my
    co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.

    I just about fell out of my seat. *Dying* language? Far from it! Every
    company I know is deploying Ruby applications!

    However, I don't have any stats to support this. I only have my experience
    and love of the language to base my opinions on. Do you know where I can
    find articles/statistics on Ruby adoption and how I can convince my
    co-worker(s) that Ruby is the way to go?

    Thanks,
    Andrew
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Santosh c at Oct 9, 2011 at 9:13 am
    JavaScript tops the list at https://github.com/languages -- am wondering if
    it refers to standalone apps being built entirely in Javascript, or it
    includes libraries like jquery, dojo, etc which are used pretty much by
    every web application. Any idea how github identifies languages?

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Robert Walker at Oct 9, 2011 at 9:14 pm

    Andrew wrote in post #1025635:
    However, my
    co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch
    to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.

    I just about fell out of my seat. *Dying* language? Far from it! Every
    company I know is deploying Ruby applications!
    So you should switch to Java because Ruby is a "dying language?" To a
    language invented by a company that is already dead, Sun Microsystems.
    And, who's creator abandoned the company when it was taken over by
    Oracle. This guy is recommending a switch to Oracle, who's main product
    is an old severely aging relational database that costs a small fortune
    to deploy and hasn't seen significant changes in decades. Do you really
    think that Java is in a great place right now in the hands of the likes
    of Oracle? A company who's primary interest is profit, attained by
    gouging large enterprises for everything they can possibly get a way
    with.

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Fred Ballard at Oct 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm
    OH You should see the smiles on Java devs faces when they switch to Ruby.

    -----

    If there's a dying language of the two, I'd guess it was Java.


    On Oct 9, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Robert Walker wrote:

    Andrew wrote in post #1025635:
    However, my
    co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch
    to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.

    I just about fell out of my seat. *Dying* language? Far from it! Every
    company I know is deploying Ruby applications!
    So you should switch to Java because Ruby is a "dying language?" To a
    language invented by a company that is already dead, Sun Microsystems.
    And, who's creator abandoned the company when it was taken over by
    Oracle. This guy is recommending a switch to Oracle, who's main product
    is an old severely aging relational database that costs a small fortune
    to deploy and hasn't seen significant changes in decades. Do you really
    think that Java is in a great place right now in the hands of the likes
    of Oracle? A company who's primary interest is profit, attained by
    gouging large enterprises for everything they can possibly get a way
    with.

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Fernando Almeida at Oct 9, 2011 at 10:23 pm
    Big name companies using Ruby can be more one argument:
    http://blog.obiefernandez.com/content/2008/03/big-name-compan.html
    http://www.workingwithrails.com/high-profile-organisations


    2011/10/7 Andrew <misbehavens@gmail.com>
    Hello,

    I work for a company that uses PHP. In my free time I write Ruby apps. My
    manager recently "discovered" Heroku (which I had been using for a while)
    which spawned a discussion about eventually switching languages to start
    doing Ruby development (which would be awesome for me). However, my
    co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.

    I just about fell out of my seat. *Dying* language? Far from it! Every
    company I know is deploying Ruby applications!

    However, I don't have any stats to support this. I only have my experience
    and love of the language to base my opinions on. Do you know where I can
    find articles/statistics on Ruby adoption and how I can convince my
    co-worker(s) that Ruby is the way to go?

    Thanks,
    Andrew

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
    "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To view this discussion on the web visit
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-talk/-/qop4z-1g07EJ.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
    rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at
    http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.


    --
    Fernando Almeida
    www.fernandoalmeida.net

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • KlausG at Oct 10, 2011 at 6:08 am

    However, my co-worker mentioned that he thinks if we are switching, we should switch to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.
    Eeh, just show your co-worker the following chart:
    http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/Java.html

    ( Uuh and DON'T show him the Ruby Chart ;-((( )

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Dave Aronson at Oct 10, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 14:34, Andrew wrote:

    he thinks if we are switching, we should switch to
    Java because Ruby is a dying language.
    Sure you didn't hear that backwards? That would make a lot more sense. ;-)

    -Dave

    --
    LOOKING FOR WORK, preferably Ruby on Rails, in NoVa/DC; see main web site.
    Main Web Site: davearonson.com
    Programming Blog: codosaur.us
    Excellence Blog: dare2xl.com

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Andrew at Oct 10, 2011 at 10:34 pm
    Thanks everyone for the comments! The Tiobe Ruby chart is in fact the one
    that my co-worker was referring to since it shows Ruby on a downward slope.
    The Tiobe index doesn't seem very useful or accurate if you ask me. You've
    definitely given me a lot of ammunition to defend Ruby!

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-talk/-/rRRjOC1XQ3MJ.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Martin Wawrusch at Oct 11, 2011 at 3:55 am
    Your coworker would be a fool if he makes decision based on the weighted
    number of search hits for XXX programming, which is what the tiobe index is.
    The github index gives you a good estimated of the popularity of languages
    in the open source community here: https://github.com/languages Looks much
    better :) Of course this is as bogus as the tiobe index - but the results
    are more in favor of Ruby :)



    On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Andrew wrote:

    Thanks everyone for the comments! The Tiobe Ruby chart is in fact the one
    that my co-worker was referring to since it shows Ruby on a downward slope.
    The Tiobe index doesn't seem very useful or accurate if you ask me. You've
    definitely given me a lot of ammunition to defend Ruby!

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
    "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To view this discussion on the web visit
    https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rubyonrails-talk/-/rRRjOC1XQ3MJ.

    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
    rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at
    http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Manrtra M. at Oct 13, 2011 at 3:54 am
    I have been a ruby developer for 4 years before ditching the language in
    2010

    The best way to figure out a skill and the amount of usage is websites
    like
    stackoverflow and the number of questions tagged ruby python java

    Google trends gives you a fairly good idea too.

    Now while ruby is far superior highly productive it needs extra smart
    programmers those that are a rare find and therefore most decision
    makers will be scared of it. As they are themselves in a comfortable
    shell where they want to be.

    Add to it the human tendency of not liking radical changes.

    I am a Java programmer now and I can tell you that most of the things
    being introduced into java7 and post 7 are already there in ruby and I
    have so far not learnt a single good pattern, practise that is not the
    result of my ruby on rails learnings.

    All I am saying is there were'nt enough job options available where i
    live and I had to switch I really miss ruby and intend to open my own
    software product development company soon.

    The language of choice will definately be Ruby as I know for sure I can
    do what it will take 10 java guys with 1 good ruby programmer.

    There is absolutely no comparison when it comes to web development
    between the 2. Ruby + plugins beats anything Java anyday.

    Surely there are thing slike OSGI and dynamic support through Groovy and
    similarscripting languages but they are all ruby or python inspired
    (which is shameful).

    Still in this world the best does not always have to sit at top in
    raknings just like BMW sales will never be the same as Toyota but a
    Toyota now comes standard with what BMW cars were 5 years ago.

    Rubys elegance will never be matched by Java.

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Michael Reiland at Oct 13, 2011 at 3:28 pm
    I think the idea that rails needs extra smart programmers is a bit
    silly. It's a bit like a blog author who tells his audience they're in
    the top echelon simply by reading his or her blog.

    Statements like those are a masturbatory fantasy that has no place in
    the evaluation of technology stacks imo.

    I also question your claim that 1 rails developer can do the work of 10
    java developers. An actualy order of magnitude productivity gain is
    very rare in our industry, and I would expect any such claims to come
    with reputable citations to back them up.

    Don't get me wrong, Rails has it's merits, I'm head down in it every
    day, but lets not kid ourselves.
    On 10/12/2011 10:54 PM, Manrtra M. wrote:
    I have been a ruby developer for 4 years before ditching the language in
    2010

    The best way to figure out a skill and the amount of usage is websites
    like
    stackoverflow and the number of questions tagged ruby python java

    Google trends gives you a fairly good idea too.

    Now while ruby is far superior highly productive it needs extra smart
    programmers those that are a rare find and therefore most decision
    makers will be scared of it. As they are themselves in a comfortable
    shell where they want to be.

    Add to it the human tendency of not liking radical changes.

    I am a Java programmer now and I can tell you that most of the things
    being introduced into java7 and post 7 are already there in ruby and I
    have so far not learnt a single good pattern, practise that is not the
    result of my ruby on rails learnings.

    All I am saying is there were'nt enough job options available where i
    live and I had to switch I really miss ruby and intend to open my own
    software product development company soon.

    The language of choice will definately be Ruby as I know for sure I can
    do what it will take 10 java guys with 1 good ruby programmer.

    There is absolutely no comparison when it comes to web development
    between the 2. Ruby + plugins beats anything Java anyday.

    Surely there are thing slike OSGI and dynamic support through Groovy and
    similarscripting languages but they are all ruby or python inspired
    (which is shameful).

    Still in this world the best does not always have to sit at top in
    raknings just like BMW sales will never be the same as Toyota but a
    Toyota now comes standard with what BMW cars were 5 years ago.

    Rubys elegance will never be matched by Java.
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Dave Aronson at Oct 14, 2011 at 1:55 am

    On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:28, Michael Reiland wrote:

    I think the idea that rails needs extra smart programmers is a bit silly.
    It's a bit like a blog author who tells his audience they're in the top
    echelon simply by reading his or her blog.
    A while back, some programming blog (Coding Horror, maybe?) said that
    its audience was the cream of the programming crop... because they
    read *ANY* blogs, not necessarily that one. There are an awful lot of
    programmers out there who only treat it as a day-job, not bothering to
    keep their skills modern and sharp by reading blogs, listening to
    podcasts, participating in email lists (hey, looky what I'm doin'!),
    let alone writing their own blogs... and programming in their spare
    time is Right Out. And not only are there an awful lot of programmers
    like that, a lot of them are probably awful programmers! ;-)

    -Dave (blog reader, podcast listener, email participator, AND blog
    writer, times two!)

    --
    LOOKING FOR WORK, preferably Ruby on Rails, in NoVa/DC; see main web site.
    Main Web Site: davearonson.com
    Programming Blog: codosaur.us
    Excellence Blog: dare2xl.com

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Noven Effendi at Oct 14, 2011 at 9:38 am
    Hi Andrew,

    You can show your co-worker this movie
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQbuyKUaKFo

    Regards,

    Noven

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Michael Reiland at Oct 14, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    On 10/13/2011 8:54 PM, Dave Aronson wrote:
    On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:28, Michael Reiland
    wrote:
    I think the idea that rails needs extra smart programmers is a bit silly.
    It's a bit like a blog author who tells his audience they're in the top
    echelon simply by reading his or her blog.
    A while back, some programming blog (Coding Horror, maybe?) said that
    its audience was the cream of the programming crop... because they
    read *ANY* blogs, not necessarily that one. There are an awful lot of
    programmers out there who only treat it as a day-job, not bothering to
    keep their skills modern and sharp by reading blogs, listening to
    podcasts, participating in email lists (hey, looky what I'm doin'!),
    let alone writing their own blogs... and programming in their spare
    time is Right Out. And not only are there an awful lot of programmers
    like that, a lot of them are probably awful programmers! ;-)

    -Dave (blog reader, podcast listener, email participator, AND blog
    writer, times two!)
    I'm not sure I understand the claim that reading blogs keeps your skills
    "modern and sharp". I would think practicing your craft would have more
    of an effect on that then reading someone's opinion about something.

    Personally, I consider this "programmer guy who ignores the outside
    world" a strawman. I've never met one, but I have met a lot of folks
    whose values and goals as developers differ. Some whose skills are
    incidental to what they do, some whose skills are better than others.
    But never a programmer who was so completely out of touch with the
    outside world that they had no idea about the major movements in our
    industry.

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Dave Aronson at Oct 14, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 09:05, Michael Reiland wrote:

    I'm not sure I understand the claim that reading blogs keeps your skills
    "modern and sharp".  I would think practicing your craft would have more of
    an effect on that then reading someone's opinion about something.
    Agreed -- but practice + reading > practice alone. Especially in
    situations where practice does not generate feedback, as I've often
    found.

    -Dave

    --
    LOOKING FOR WORK, preferably Ruby on Rails, in NoVa/DC; see main web site.
    Main Web Site: davearonson.com
    Programming Blog: codosaur.us
    Excellence Blog: dare2xl.com

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Robert Walker at Oct 15, 2011 at 3:03 am

    Dave Aronson wrote in post #1026700:
    Agreed -- but practice + reading > practice alone. Especially in
    situations where practice does not generate feedback, as I've often
    found.
    +1

    Practice alone in this profession isn't enough IMHO. Bad practice
    remains bad practice no matter how much you practice it. If you really
    want to grow as programmer then strive to join a team of programmers who
    are all better than yourself. However, don't be complacent once you're
    there. Aim to be the worst, then strive to be the best. Find the experts
    and take every opportunity to study their code, read their blogs, watch
    their screencasts, or whatever medium they choose to share their
    knowledge and experience. Chances are you'll find out that you really
    weren't as bad as you thought, and soon you'll find yourself to be one
    of the best programmers on the team. That's the moment when it's time to
    begin looking for a team where you'll again be the worst.

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.
  • Dave Aronson at Oct 16, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 23:02, Robert Walker wrote:

    If you really want to grow as programmer then strive to join
    a team of programmers who are all better than yourself.
    I think that's part of what made my most recent job rather lackluster.
    I joined a small team as a Developer 4... already on the team were
    two 2s, and then we hired a 1. I never got much feedback from the
    code reviews, and only got advice when I had a specific question. At
    least I did get a lot of cross-team work, so *sometimes* someone
    closer to my equal in general SE, and often far more experienced in
    the domain, was offering feedback... but usually no.

    That and, to drag it back to topic, it was nearly all ActionScript,
    not Ruby.... :-(

    -Dave

    --
    LOOKING FOR WORK, preferably Ruby on Rails, in NoVa/DC; see main web site.
    Main Web Site: davearonson.com
    Programming Blog: codosaur.us
    Excellence Blog: dare2xl.com

    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
    To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.

Related Discussions

People

Translate

site design / logo © 2022 Grokbase