FAQ
I'm setting up a pair of VM's to do some puppet testing on, and I am trying
to figure out how to install puppet without having the the system also
install ruby.

I already have ruby installed through RVM, and I'd like to get puppet to
use that ruby.

For the record, I'm using CentOS 6.3 as the OS for the 2 VM's. I have the
puppet labs repo installed so I'm getting the latest version of puppet
straight from puppet labs.
rvm version 1.15.9 is installed and I have ruby 1.9.2-p320 installed
(system wide) and set to the default. I also ran 'rvm system' so that ruby
is found at /usr/local/rvm/bin/ruby.

Unfortunately every time I start 'yum install puppet-server puppet' yum
wants to install ruby because rvm doesn't tell yum that ruby is already
installed.

Does anyone know how to work around this? in particular does anyone know
how I can make puppet use the rvm ruby after I install everything?

Thanks!
James "Zeke' Dehnert

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  • Jcbollinger at Sep 21, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    On Friday, September 21, 2012 1:14:56 AM UTC-5, jdehnert wrote:
    I'm setting up a pair of VM's to do some puppet testing on, and I am
    trying to figure out how to install puppet without having the the system
    also install ruby.

    I already have ruby installed through RVM, and I'd like to get puppet to
    use that ruby.

    For the record, I'm using CentOS 6.3 as the OS for the 2 VM's. I have the
    puppet labs repo installed so I'm getting the latest version of puppet
    straight from puppet labs.
    rvm version 1.15.9 is installed and I have ruby 1.9.2-p320 installed
    (system wide) and set to the default. I also ran 'rvm system' so that ruby
    is found at /usr/local/rvm/bin/ruby.

    Unfortunately every time I start 'yum install puppet-server puppet' yum
    wants to install ruby because rvm doesn't tell yum that ruby is already
    installed.

    Does anyone know how to work around this? in particular does anyone know
    how I can make puppet use the rvm ruby after I install everything?
    You have a wrong concept: yum and rpm don't care whether any particular *
    software* is installed, they care only about what *packages* (RPMs) are
    installed. That's why they don't care about the Ruby you've installed via
    rvm.

    As a system administration principle, I think it's a rather poor idea to
    install software other than via the system's native package management
    system. Among other things, that means I have no use for rvm (or gem), and
    also that I build a fair number of packages myself. If you ignore that
    principle, then you need to be aware that you thereby start down a slippery
    slope; in fact, you are beginning to discover that on your own.

    So what can you do? Here are some of your options:

    1) Use the system's Ruby packages.

    2) Build and install your own Ruby packages (you can probably find some
    source RPMs to adapt)

    3) Download the Puppet source and install it manually


    John

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  • Jdehnert at Sep 22, 2012 at 1:21 am

    On Friday, September 21, 2012 7:59:46 AM UTC-7, jcbollinger wrote:
    You have a wrong concept: yum and rpm don't care whether any particular *
    software* is installed, they care only about what *packages* (RPMs) are
    installed. That's why they don't care about the Ruby you've installed via
    rvm.

    As a system administration principle, I think it's a rather poor idea to
    install software other than via the system's native package management
    system. Among other things, that means I have no use for rvm (or gem), and
    also that I build a fair number of packages myself. If you ignore that
    principle, then you need to be aware that you thereby start down a slippery
    slope; in fact, you are beginning to discover that on your own.
    I'm aware of the issues of installing software through source vs. pkg
    management systems. I should have mentioned that I've been in IT for over
    20 years. Its just puppet and ruby that are new to me, but I'm learning
    fast. We are in agreement about sticking to one type of package
    management. It much easier now that it was back when I was installing
    SunOS 4.1.4 on Sun 3's and Sparc 2's and compiling X11 from source.

    So what can you do? Here are some of your options:

    1) Use the system's Ruby packages.

    2) Build and install your own Ruby packages (you can probably find some
    source RPMs to adapt)

    3) Download the Puppet source and install it manually


    John
    I've considered all of these. Does anyone know of a CentOS/RH repo that
    has the latest versions of Ruby available? I have done some searching, but
    not exhaustively so, for a repo with the most recent versions of Ruby, but
    no luck so far. The reason I want to use ruby-1.9.2-p320 on these test
    VM's is because in the production environment that these are mimicking the
    engineering folks are running that release, under RVM, and they want to
    avoid any installs of other versions to eliminate any chance of something
    getting pointed to an older version of Ruby accidentally. The dev and
    production environments will both point to Ruby under RVM.

    I ran into an issue like this once before where I needed to compile the
    latest version of Postfix to get access to a feature that was in the latest
    release. Bit too soon after I ran into rpm prereq issues because the rpm
    system was saying that no mta was installed. I eventually found a fake
    sendmail package, that installed nothing, but told rpm that sendmail was
    installed and that resolved the prereq issue without actually installing
    anything.

    I was hoping someone might know some details about the rpm system that
    might allow me to tell it that ruby was installed without installing ruby,
    as with fake sendmail. Perhaps a lesser known tool that allows one to
    insert entries into the rpm database files.

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  • Jakov Sosic at Sep 22, 2012 at 2:11 am

    On 09/22/2012 03:21 AM, jdehnert wrote:

    I'm aware of the issues of installing software through source vs. pkg
    management systems. I should have mentioned that I've been in IT for
    over 20 years. Its just puppet and ruby that are new to me, but I'm
    learning fast. We are in agreement about sticking to one type of
    package management. It much easier now that it was back when I was
    installing SunOS 4.1.4 on Sun 3's and Sparc 2's and compiling X11 from
    source.
    If you were really aware, then you wouldn't do it...


    I've considered all of these. Does anyone know of a CentOS/RH repo that
    has the latest versions of Ruby available? I have done some searching,
    but not exhaustively so, for a repo with the most recent versions of
    Ruby, but no luck so far. The reason I want to use ruby-1.9.2-p320 on
    these test VM's is because in the production environment that these are
    mimicking the engineering folks are running that release, under RVM, and
    they want to avoid any installs of other versions to eliminate any
    chance of something getting pointed to an older version of Ruby
    accidentally. The dev and production environments will both point to
    Ruby under RVM.
    This is wrong approach. Try to figure out why is RHEL/CentOS and Suse
    Enterprise sticking to older version of ruby (or every other piece of
    software they distribute), and what are the benefits...

    I was hoping someone might know some details about the rpm system that
    might allow me to tell it that ruby was installed without installing
    ruby, as with fake sendmail. Perhaps a lesser known tool that allows one
    to insert entries into the rpm database files.
    You are mangling with the system in a way it shouldn't be mangled with.
    Try to persuade your developers to use platform that is already used on
    production, and not vice versa.

    If that doesn't go quite right, then take src.rpm from RedHat/CentOS,
    bump version to 1.9.x - or whatever do you want to use, drop in newer
    sources, fix patches - and rebuild the RPM - or try to backport latest
    feodra build:

    http://fedora.aau.at/linux/releases/17/Fedora/source/SRPMS/r/ruby-1.9.3.194-10.1.fc17.src.rpm

    but that could bring you back to trouble because that version probably
    won't be 100% identical to the one that your dev team uses (if they
    stick to sources). So we're back to square one - you *have to* convice
    your team to use Ruby from RPM package - either fedora backport or
    standard RHEL 1.8.x.

    Everything else _*will*_ bit you in the ass in the long run.



    --
    Jakov Sosic
    www.srce.unizg.hr

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  • Jdehnert at Sep 22, 2012 at 6:23 am

    On Friday, September 21, 2012 7:11:18 PM UTC-7, Jakov Sosic wrote:
    On 09/22/2012 03:21 AM, jdehnert wrote:

    I'm aware of the issues of installing software through source vs. pkg
    management systems. I should have mentioned that I've been in IT for
    over 20 years. Its just puppet and ruby that are new to me, but I'm
    learning fast. We are in agreement about sticking to one type of
    package management. It much easier now that it was back when I was
    installing SunOS 4.1.4 on Sun 3's and Sparc 2's and compiling X11 from
    source.
    If you were really aware, then you wouldn't do it...
    I haven't done anything yet, except appeal to the puppet community at large
    for some insight
    I've considered all of these. Does anyone know of a CentOS/RH repo that
    has the latest versions of Ruby available? I have done some searching,
    but not exhaustively so, for a repo with the most recent versions of
    Ruby, but no luck so far. The reason I want to use ruby-1.9.2-p320 on
    these test VM's is because in the production environment that these are
    mimicking the engineering folks are running that release, under RVM, and
    they want to avoid any installs of other versions to eliminate any
    chance of something getting pointed to an older version of Ruby
    accidentally. The dev and production environments will both point to
    Ruby under RVM.
    This is wrong approach. Try to figure out why is RHEL/CentOS and Suse
    Enterprise sticking to older version of ruby (or every other piece of
    software they distribute), and what are the benefits...
    Considering that the developers have been working on this for over a year,
    and they have their reasons for selecting RVM and Ruby 1.9.2, it's not my
    call. I'm here to bring as much consistency and reliability as I can to
    the systems that have been managed by the whims of the developers for quite
    some time. I've made a huge amount of progress by basically giving them
    them some nice, clean, secure production systems that they aren't allowed
    to manage. I have helped them get to the point where they can use
    Capistrano to deploy the application, and we have partitioned Neo4j and
    Mongodb onto their own separate systems. Now I'm working on deploying
    puppet to keep the systems consistent and allow me to do all that puppet
    can do to keep things in order.

    I was hoping someone might know some details about the rpm system that
    might allow me to tell it that ruby was installed without installing
    ruby, as with fake sendmail. Perhaps a lesser known tool that allows one
    to insert entries into the rpm database files.
    You are mangling with the system in a way it shouldn't be mangled with.
    Try to persuade your developers to use platform that is already used on
    production, and not vice versa.
    Well, I suppose everyone has a different mandate at different companies.
    My current gig is at yet another start up and the company is engineering
    driven. Given that I need to make sure that I don't do anything that steps
    on engineering. I'm not entirely under their thumb. I insisted on certain
    conditions before I took this job, and that has allowed me to replace token
    security with real security. Engineering and I have worked together very
    closely to help get them more compartmentalized to the application is now
    of a discrete unit, and not so much an electron cloud where they may have
    reached all over the OS. I give them a reliable server, and they agree to
    keep the application contained.

    If that doesn't go quite right, then take src.rpm from RedHat/CentOS,
    bump version to 1.9.x - or whatever do you want to use, drop in newer
    sources, fix patches - and rebuild the RPM - or try to backport latest
    feodra build:


    http://fedora.aau.at/linux/releases/17/Fedora/source/SRPMS/r/ruby-1.9.3.194-10.1.fc17.src.rpm

    but that could bring you back to trouble because that version probably
    won't be 100% identical to the one that your dev team uses (if they
    stick to sources). So we're back to square one - you *have to* convice
    your team to use Ruby from RPM package - either fedora backport or
    standard RHEL 1.8.x.

    Everything else _*will*_ bit you in the ass in the long run.
    That’s why I'm here asking questions. Its good to minimize all the future
    ass biting that one can, which is also why I'm testing on a pair of VM's to
    get puppet functional and worked out before it gets anywhere near a
    production system.

    --
    Jakov Sosic
    www.srce.unizg.hr
    --
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    To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/puppet-users/-/OEPaTlAP2QIJ.
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  • Marc Lucke at Sep 22, 2012 at 7:53 am

    On 22/09/2012, at 4:23 PM, jdehnert wrote:



    On Friday, September 21, 2012 7:11:18 PM UTC-7, Jakov Sosic wrote:
    On 09/22/2012 03:21 AM, jdehnert wrote:

    I'm aware of the issues of installing software through source vs. pkg
    management systems. I should have mentioned that I've been in IT for
    over 20 years. Its just puppet and ruby that are new to me, but I'm
    learning fast. We are in agreement about sticking to one type of
    package management. It much easier now that it was back when I was
    installing SunOS 4.1.4 on Sun 3's and Sparc 2's and compiling X11 from
    source.
    If you were really aware, then you wouldn't do it...

    I haven't done anything yet, except appeal to the puppet community at large for some insight
    I've considered all of these. Does anyone know of a CentOS/RH repo that
    has the latest versions of Ruby available? I have done some searching,
    but not exhaustively so, for a repo with the most recent versions of
    Ruby, but no luck so far. The reason I want to use ruby-1.9.2-p320 on
    these test VM's is because in the production environment that these are
    mimicking the engineering folks are running that release, under RVM, and
    they want to avoid any installs of other versions to eliminate any
    chance of something getting pointed to an older version of Ruby
    accidentally. The dev and production environments will both point to
    Ruby under RVM.
    This is wrong approach. Try to figure out why is RHEL/CentOS and Suse
    Enterprise sticking to older version of ruby (or every other piece of
    software they distribute), and what are the benefits...

    Considering that the developers have been working on this for over a year, and they have their reasons for selecting RVM and Ruby 1.9.2, it's not my call. I'm here to bring as much consistency and reliability as I can to the systems that have been managed by the whims of the developers for quite some time. I've made a huge amount of progress by basically giving them them some nice, clean, secure production systems that they aren't allowed to manage. I have helped them get to the point where they can use Capistrano to deploy the application, and we have partitioned Neo4j and Mongodb onto their own separate systems. Now I'm working on deploying puppet to keep the systems consistent and allow me to do all that puppet can do to keep things in order.
    I was hoping someone might know some details about the rpm system that
    might allow me to tell it that ruby was installed without installing
    ruby, as with fake sendmail. Perhaps a lesser known tool that allows one
    to insert entries into the rpm database files.
    You are mangling with the system in a way it shouldn't be mangled with.
    Try to persuade your developers to use platform that is already used on
    production, and not vice versa.

    Well, I suppose everyone has a different mandate at different companies. My current gig is at yet another start up and the company is engineering driven. Given that I need to make sure that I don't do anything that steps on engineering. I'm not entirely under their thumb. I insisted on certain conditions before I took this job, and that has allowed me to replace token security with real security. Engineering and I have worked together very closely to help get them more compartmentalized to the application is now of a discrete unit, and not so much an electron cloud where they may have reached all over the OS. I give them a reliable server, and they agree to keep the application contained.

    If that doesn't go quite right, then take src.rpm from RedHat/CentOS,
    bump version to 1.9.x - or whatever do you want to use, drop in newer
    sources, fix patches - and rebuild the RPM - or try to backport latest
    feodra build:

    http://fedora.aau.at/linux/releases/17/Fedora/source/SRPMS/r/ruby-1.9.3.194-10.1.fc17.src.rpm

    but that could bring you back to trouble because that version probably
    won't be 100% identical to the one that your dev team uses (if they
    stick to sources). So we're back to square one - you *have to* convice
    your team to use Ruby from RPM package - either fedora backport or
    standard RHEL 1.8.x.

    Everything else _*will*_ bit you in the ass in the long run.

    That’s why I'm here asking questions. Its good to minimize all the future ass biting that one can, which is also why I'm testing on a pair of VM's to get puppet functional and worked out before it gets anywhere near a production system.

    --
    Jakov Sosic
    www.srce.unizg.hr

    --
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    rvm is handy but most production systems shouldn't have internet access. I managed to create a graylog2-web rpm with bundler - bundle install --standalone --deployment (but --standalone didn't work for some reason). A +1 on consistency and sticking with one packaging system. I have to admit I've been tempted to set up a ruby/rvm/gem et al. ubuntu or debian server that could just do whatever it wanted, but I decided against it because of the security questions that resulted.

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  • Stephen Price at Sep 21, 2012 at 4:08 pm
    John's right. Yum and RVM will manage Rubies separately.

    Is there a specific reason you want Puppet to use 1.9.2 instead of CentOS
    6's version from yum repos (1.8.7)? I run CentOS on close to 100 hosts, all
    with 1.8.7 as the default install. A number of these also have RVM with
    various Rubies installed. What's nice about RVM is that it gets you away
    from having to overwrite the system's version of Ruby.

    As long as we're talking about installing from source, there's a 4th
    option: use RVM's Ruby 1.9.2-p230 to install the Puppet gem. Instructions
    are here (though you'll need to adapt it to your specific
    environment): http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/installation.html#installing-from-gems-not-recommended

    Please note that neither installing from source or gem is recommended.
    You're better off sticking with the native package management, as John
    suggests. Upgrading Puppet/RVM/Ruby could land you in hot water in the
    future.
    On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:14:56 PM UTC-7, jdehnert wrote:

    I'm setting up a pair of VM's to do some puppet testing on, and I am
    trying to figure out how to install puppet without having the the system
    also install ruby.

    I already have ruby installed through RVM, and I'd like to get puppet to
    use that ruby.

    For the record, I'm using CentOS 6.3 as the OS for the 2 VM's. I have the
    puppet labs repo installed so I'm getting the latest version of puppet
    straight from puppet labs.
    rvm version 1.15.9 is installed and I have ruby 1.9.2-p320 installed
    (system wide) and set to the default. I also ran 'rvm system' so that ruby
    is found at /usr/local/rvm/bin/ruby.

    Unfortunately every time I start 'yum install puppet-server puppet' yum
    wants to install ruby because rvm doesn't tell yum that ruby is already
    installed.

    Does anyone know how to work around this? in particular does anyone know
    how I can make puppet use the rvm ruby after I install everything?

    Thanks!
    James "Zeke' Dehnert
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  • Michael Stahnke at Sep 21, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Stephen Price wrote:
    John's right. Yum and RVM will manage Rubies separately.

    Is there a specific reason you want Puppet to use 1.9.2 instead of CentOS
    6's version from yum repos (1.8.7)? I run CentOS on close to 100 hosts, all
    with 1.8.7 as the default install. A number of these also have RVM with
    various Rubies installed. What's nice about RVM is that it gets you away
    from having to overwrite the system's version of Ruby.

    As long as we're talking about installing from source, there's a 4th option:
    use RVM's Ruby 1.9.2-p230 to install the Puppet gem. Instructions are here
    (though you'll need to adapt it to your specific environment):
    http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/installation.html#installing-from-gems-not-recommended
    Also ruby 1.9.2 isn't very compatible with Puppet (at least 2.7.x).
    Please note that neither installing from source or gem is recommended.
    You're better off sticking with the native package management, as John
    suggests. Upgrading Puppet/RVM/Ruby could land you in hot water in the
    future.

    On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:14:56 PM UTC-7, jdehnert wrote:

    I'm setting up a pair of VM's to do some puppet testing on, and I am
    trying to figure out how to install puppet without having the the system
    also install ruby.

    I already have ruby installed through RVM, and I'd like to get puppet to
    use that ruby.

    For the record, I'm using CentOS 6.3 as the OS for the 2 VM's. I have the
    puppet labs repo installed so I'm getting the latest version of puppet
    straight from puppet labs.
    rvm version 1.15.9 is installed and I have ruby 1.9.2-p320 installed
    (system wide) and set to the default. I also ran 'rvm system' so that ruby
    is found at /usr/local/rvm/bin/ruby.

    Unfortunately every time I start 'yum install puppet-server puppet' yum
    wants to install ruby because rvm doesn't tell yum that ruby is already
    installed.

    Does anyone know how to work around this? in particular does anyone know
    how I can make puppet use the rvm ruby after I install everything?

    Thanks!
    James "Zeke' Dehnert
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  • Jdehnert at Sep 22, 2012 at 1:44 am

    On Friday, September 21, 2012 1:11:22 PM UTC-7, Michael Stanhke wrote:
    As long as we're talking about installing from source, there's a 4th option:
    use RVM's Ruby 1.9.2-p230 to install the Puppet gem. Instructions are here
    (though you'll need to adapt it to your specific environment):
    http://docs.puppetlabs.com/guides/installation.html#installing-from-gems-not-recommended

    Also ruby 1.9.2 isn't very compatible with Puppet (at least 2.7.x).
    I don't mind installing a few things with gem, but I want to just stick to
    what the development folks are going to install that way. In reality, I
    have no need for passenger or the other gems that are using. But from a
    system management POV, gem is just another step away from yum/rpm which is
    not the direction I want to go. I haven't had time to read up on any
    puppet/ruby compatibility issues recently (another good reason for testing
    on VM's). Sounds like I should just install whats available through yum
    which is ruby-1.8.7.



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  • Jakov Sosic at Sep 22, 2012 at 2:12 am

    On 09/22/2012 03:44 AM, jdehnert wrote:

    Sounds like I should just install whats available through yum which is
    ruby-1.8.7.
    Sounds like a good idea.



    --
    Jakov Sosic
    www.srce.unizg.hr

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