FAQ
Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
environ(7).'

I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
somewhere?

Thanks

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  • Arnout Kazemier at Oct 31, 2012 at 1:08 pm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_variable

    It's just an object that contains all your env. variables.

    On Wednesday 31 October 2012 at 14:04, Bgsosh wrote:

    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See environ(7).'

    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented somewhere?

    Thanks

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  • SL at Oct 31, 2012 at 3:11 pm
    Ok, thanks! Would be good if someone could clarify that in the docs.
    On 31 October 2012 14:08, Arnout Kazemier wrote:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_variable

    It's just an object that contains all your env. variables.

    On Wednesday 31 October 2012 at 14:04, Bgsosh wrote:

    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7).'

    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?

    Thanks

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  • Adam Brady at Oct 31, 2012 at 1:41 pm
    http://linux.die.net/man/7/environ
    On Thursday, November 1, 2012 12:04:59 AM UTC+11, Bgsosh wrote:

    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7).'

    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?

    Thanks
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  • Jorge at Oct 31, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7).'

    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!).  Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:

    $ man 7 environ

    ENVIRON(7) BSD Miscellaneous Information Manual
    ENVIRON(7)

    NAME
    environ -- user environment

    SYNOPSIS
    extern char **environ;

    DESCRIPTION
    An array of strings called the environment is made available by
    execve(2) when a process
    begins. By convention these strings have the form
    ``name=value''. The following names are
    used by various commands:

    BLOCKSIZE The size of the block units used by several commands,
    most notably df(1), du(1) and
    ls(1). BLOCKSIZE may be specified in units of a byte
    by specifying a number, in
    units of a kilobyte by specifying a number followed by
    ``K'' or ``k'', in units of a
    megabyte by specifying a number followed by ``M'' or
    ``m'' and in units of a giga-
    byte by specifying a number followed by ``G'' or
    ``g''. Sizes less than 512 bytes
    or greater than a gigabyte are ignored.

    EXINIT A startup list of commands read by ex(1), edit(1), and
    vi(1).

    ...
    --
    Jorge.

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  • Scott Elcomb at Oct 31, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7).'

    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:

    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    --
    Scott Elcomb
    @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

    Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
    http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

    Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
    http://www.pirateparty.ca/

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  • Jorge at Oct 31, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!).  Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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  • Scott Elcomb at Oct 31, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Jorge wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.

    Um, yeah. Good point.

    <slinks back to the nearest bash shell>

    --
    Scott Elcomb
    @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca / Github & more

    Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
    http://code.google.com/p/atomos/

    Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
    http://www.pirateparty.ca/

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  • SL at Oct 31, 2012 at 11:28 pm
    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...
    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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  • Matt at Nov 1, 2012 at 1:13 pm
    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.

    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.

    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...

    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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  • Alex Kocharin at Nov 1, 2012 at 2:27 pm
    I think that common nodejs related env variables like NODE_ENV or
    NODE_DEBUG should be there, but there's no need to add any others.
    On Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:13:39 PM UTC+4, Matt Sergeant wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.

    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.


    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL <bgs...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...


    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorge...@gtempaccount.com<javascript:>
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment. See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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  • SL at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:20 pm
    That's what I initially assumed it related to.
    On 1 November 2012 15:11, Alex Kocharin wrote:


    I think that common nodejs related env variables like NODE_ENV or
    NODE_DEBUG should be there, but there's no need to add any others.

    On Thursday, November 1, 2012 5:13:39 PM UTC+4, Matt Sergeant wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.

    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
    IMHO. If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
    basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.

    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...

    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment. See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Man_page<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>
    )

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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  • SL at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:16 pm
    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point -
    it just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)."
    I didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.
    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.

    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.

    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...


    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment. See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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  • Chad Engler at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm
    It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very
    common way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the
    user environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you
    probably would have found out exactly what it was with no help from
    anyone. There is no reason to repost the manual page since there is
    already a manual page for it, the docs are fine the way they are; you
    just need to try to look a little harder, or be grateful when people
    help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you
    mentioned. However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about
    this point - it just says "An object containing the user environment.
    See environ(7)." I didn't realise immediately that this is talking
    about the OS environment variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
    IMHO. If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have
    some basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment. See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)


    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • Tim Caswell at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm
    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.
    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • SL at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:49 pm
    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the understanding!
    Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.
    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.
    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <
    jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com>
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


    --
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  • Chad Engler at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:58 pm
    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:



    1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea

    2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard

    3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
    bar (I tend to use Google)

    4. Select "Search"

    5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.



    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also
    fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.



    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what I
    need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
    developed before can use them."



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
    understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
    point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS
    environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
    "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


    --
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    Posting guidelines:
    https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
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  • SL at Nov 1, 2012 at 5:01 pm
    Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
    simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
    another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another source,
    I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see: man-pages
    environ(7)' there probably would have been no misunderstanding.


    On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler wrote:

    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:****

    ** **

    **1. **Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea****

    **2. **Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard****

    **3. **Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine
    search bar (I tend to use Google)****

    **4. **Select “Search”****

    **5. **View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.*
    ***

    ** **

    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that *also*fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.
    ****

    ** **

    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides “tell me what I
    need to know” and “We should fix the docs so people who have never
    developed before can use them.”****

    ** **

    -Chad****

    ** **

    *From:* nodejs@googlegroups.com *On
    Behalf Of *SL
    *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM

    *To:* nodejs@googlegroups.com
    *Subject:* Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?****

    ** **

    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the understanding!
    Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.****

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:****

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.****

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <
    jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com>
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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    ** **

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  • Chad Engler at Nov 1, 2012 at 5:02 pm
    Ill repeat myself for the third time now: If you see something and are
    confused on what it means, Google is a great starting point. Had you
    attempting to figure it out on your own, you would have seen the first
    link, felt silly, and moved on.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
    simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
    another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
    source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
    man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no
    misunderstanding.





    On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler wrote:

    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:



    1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea

    2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard

    3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
    bar (I tend to use Google)

    4. Select "Search"

    5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.



    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also
    fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.



    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what I
    need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
    developed before can use them."



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM


    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
    understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
    point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS
    environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
    "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • Dan Milon at Nov 1, 2012 at 5:20 pm
    I totally agree with Tim & SL here.

    I think the argument: "If you google'ed you'd find out" is invalid. The
    same argument could be used for almost every question in this mailing list.

    To keep away from over-documenting I agree with Tim, at least there
    should be a link to an online man page.
    But I also find the "user variables" term misleading. I dont know whats
    the official term, but i always refer to them as "environmental variables".

    danmilon.
    On 11/01/2012 07:02 PM, Chad Engler wrote:
    Ill repeat myself for the third time now: If you see something and are
    confused on what it means, Google is a great starting point. Had you
    attempting to figure it out on your own, you would have seen the first
    link, felt silly, and moved on.



    -Chad



    *From:*nodejs@googlegroups.com *On
    Behalf Of *SL
    *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
    *To:* nodejs@googlegroups.com
    *Subject:* Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
    simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
    another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
    source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
    man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no misunderstanding.





    On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler wrote:

    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:



    1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea

    2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard

    3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
    bar (I tend to use Google)

    4. Select “Search”

    5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.



    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that /also/
    fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.



    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides “tell me what I
    need to know” and “We should fix the docs so people who have never
    developed before can use them.”



    -Chad



    *From:*nodejs@googlegroups.com *On
    Behalf Of *SL
    *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM


    *To:* nodejs@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
    understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
    point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
    <jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • Chad Engler at Nov 1, 2012 at 6:11 pm
    People not Google'ing before asking the mailing list is exactly why I
    have 500 messages a day from this list, and can barely find interesting
    topics; and I am really tired of getting "how does one node" and "what
    is javascript" questions here.

    I agree that a link on the docs is useful, but I also think searching is
    just as easy.

    "environment variables" can refer to "user variables" or "system
    variables". The "environment variables" can also be called the "user
    environment" as the node.js docs do. It is a little misleading due to
    the distinction on windows systems.

    -Chad

    -----Original Message-----
    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of Dan Milon
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:19 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?

    I totally agree with Tim & SL here.

    I think the argument: "If you google'ed you'd find out" is invalid. The
    same argument could be used for almost every question in this mailing
    list.

    To keep away from over-documenting I agree with Tim, at least there
    should be a link to an online man page.
    But I also find the "user variables" term misleading. I dont know whats
    the official term, but i always refer to them as "environmental
    variables".

    danmilon.
    On 11/01/2012 07:02 PM, Chad Engler wrote:
    Ill repeat myself for the third time now: If you see something and are
    confused on what it means, Google is a great starting point. Had you
    attempting to figure it out on your own, you would have seen the first
    link, felt silly, and moved on.



    -Chad



    *From:*nodejs@googlegroups.com *On
    Behalf Of *SL
    *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
    *To:* nodejs@googlegroups.com
    *Subject:* Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's
    quite
    simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
    another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
    source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
    man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no
    misunderstanding.




    On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler wrote:

    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:



    1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea

    2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard

    3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
    bar (I tend to use Google)

    4. Select "Search"

    5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.



    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that /also/
    fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.



    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what
    I need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
    developed before can use them."



    -Chad



    *From:*nodejs@googlegroups.com *On
    Behalf Of *SL
    *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM


    *To:* nodejs@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
    understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very
    common way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the
    user environment is you should probably do more research. Had you
    typed "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs,
    you probably would have found out exactly what it was with no help
    from anyone.
    There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look
    a little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
    point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7)." I didn't realise immediately that this is talking about
    the OS environment variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
    IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
    basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
    <jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object, but the online docs just say 'An object containing the
    user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this
    documented somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
    "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • Chad Engler at Nov 1, 2012 at 5:04 pm
    Also, the unfriendliness stems from the fact that after answering your
    question, you didn't like it. So we answered a different way, and you
    called us condescending. Which means that normal conversation doesn't
    work, so I have to try a different approach; actually being
    condescending.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
    simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
    another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another
    source, I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see:
    man-pages environ(7)' there probably would have been no
    misunderstanding.





    On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler wrote:

    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:



    1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea

    2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard

    3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search
    bar (I tend to use Google)

    4. Select "Search"

    5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.



    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also
    fails, then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.



    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides "tell me what I
    need to know" and "We should fix the docs so people who have never
    developed before can use them."



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM


    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the
    understanding! Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn't condescending; "topic(page#)" like "environ(7)" is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren't aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    "environ(7)" into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this
    point - it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS
    environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for
    "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • Tim Caswell at Nov 1, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:04 PM, Chad Engler wrote:
    Also, the unfriendliness stems from the fact that after answering your
    question, you didn’t like it. So we answered a different way, and you called
    us condescending. Which means that normal conversation doesn’t work, so I
    have to try a different approach; actually being condescending.
    Chad, please be nicer. Yes, he could have easily pasted the unknown
    term into google. That's exactly what I did when I had the same
    problem years ago. That doesn't change the fact that a part of the
    node docs are hard to understand to part of our audience. We should
    thank the OP for pointing this out and helping us make node better for
    others in the future.

    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 1:01 PM


    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Ok, last post as the vibe here is a distinctly unfriendly... It's quite
    simple: When I read 'see environ(7)' I assumed that was a reference to
    another part of the node docs. When a reference is made to another source,
    I'm used to seeing the source named. If it had said 'see: man-pages
    environ(7)' there probably would have been no misunderstanding.





    On 1 November 2012 17:58, Chad Engler wrote:

    I really think all of this could have been avoided, and new knowledge
    consumed using this simple process that has guided me for years:



    1. Encounter unknown term, phrase, or idea

    2. Copy unknown term, phrase, or idea to clipboard

    3. Paste unknown term, phrase, or idea into a search engine search bar
    (I tend to use Google)

    4. Select “Search”

    5. View results, which 98% of the time will clear up confusion.



    If this process fails, then repeat using similar terms. If that also fails,
    then I usually head to StackOverflow/mailing lists.



    My point was there was no attempt to solve this besides “tell me what I need
    to know” and “We should fix the docs so people who have never developed
    before can use them.”



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:49 PM


    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    As you guessed, I'm developing on Windows. Thanks for the understanding!
    Yes a link would have avoided all confusion.

    On 1 November 2012 17:42, Tim Caswell wrote:

    I've been using since before it was popular. Back in the early days,
    the docs for node were full of references to linux man pages like
    this. My background was scripting languages and I had never done any
    C programming so I had no clue what readdir(3) meant. To open a file
    back then you had to manually bitwise OR the various unix flags
    together yourself. (Using "r", "w", "a", etc was an addition I made)

    Things now are much easier for people without a C background and there
    are many fewer parts left in the docs that assume knowledge of man
    pages.

    That said, I did eventually figure out it was referencing man pages.
    I was a linux user after all, I had just never used man to lookup C
    APis.

    How about we just link to one of the man mirrors in the API docs? I
    was an experienced linux user and I still didn't know what the docs
    were talking about, I can only imagine how confused windows users
    would be.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Chad Engler wrote:
    It wasn’t condescending; “topic(page#)” like “environ(7)” is a very common
    way to express man pages, and if you aren’t aware of what the user
    environment is you should probably do more research. Had you typed
    “environ(7)” into google before getting butthurt at the docs, you probably
    would have found out exactly what it was with no help from anyone. There
    is
    no reason to repost the manual page since there is already a manual page
    for
    it, the docs are fine the way they are; you just need to try to look a
    little harder, or be grateful when people help.



    -Chad



    From: nodejs@googlegroups.com On Behalf
    Of
    SL
    Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 12:16 PM
    To: nodejs@googlegroups.com
    Subject: Re: [nodejs] Re: process.env - documentation?



    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting
    there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you mentioned.
    However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about this point -
    it
    just says "An object containing the user environment. See environ(7)." I
    didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the OS environment
    variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.



    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs IMHO.
    If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some basic
    learning to do before diving straight into programming.



    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...



    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com>
    wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge
    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env object,
    but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user environment.
    See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)
    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.


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  • Matt at Nov 1, 2012 at 4:48 pm
    You maybe misread me - I *am* suggesting there should be a tutorial about
    those things. I just think it belongs outside of the node core docs. Or in
    a book.

    The node core docs should give you exactly accurate minimal information to
    point you in the right direction (aka google) if you need/want to know more.

    On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:16 PM, SL wrote:

    Wow, thanks for the condescending and arrogant comment! I'm not
    suggesting there should be a 'tutorial' about any of those things you
    mentioned. However the docs at the moment are IMO a bit ambiguous about
    this point - it just says "An object containing the user environment. See
    environ(7)." I didn't realise immediately that this is talking about the
    OS environment variables - I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    On 1 November 2012 14:13, Matt wrote:

    If the docs covered every aspect of how programming networks, child
    processes, systems and filesystems worked they would be huge.

    There's a place for tutorials though - but it's not in the core docs
    IMHO. If you don't know what an environment variable is then you have some
    basic learning to do before diving straight into programming.

    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 7:28 PM, SL wrote:

    Or we could make the docs a bit clearer...


    On 31 October 2012 18:46, Jorge <
    jorge%jorgechamorro.com@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
    On 31 oct, 17:26, Scott Elcomb wrote:
    On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Jorge

    wrote:
    On Oct 31, 2:04 pm, Bgsosh wrote:
    Hi, I'm tring to understand the structure of the process.env
    object, but
    the online docs just say 'An object containing the user
    environment. See
    environ(7).'
    I can't find 'environ(7)' (whatever that is!). Is this documented
    somewhere?
    Type this in the terminal:
    $ man 7 environ
    That'd be tricky for Windows users to do if they're not running a
    *nix-like shell. (Cygwin comes to mind)

    I'd imagine the best bet for Windows users would be to search for "man
    7 environ" on the web to find a copy of the relevant man page; there
    are a number of mirrors like the one Adam suggested.

    (BTW, for those not familiar with man pages, see also
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_page>)

    Perhaps Windowzs users should better search for "environment
    variables" @ msdn or something, I guess, yeah.
    --
    Jorge.

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