FAQ
Hello, Clojure community.

I have been following the Clojure path for nearly two years now, and have
really great pleasure
using it in my personal and job projects, watching the community delivering
a lot of great things,
most of that I have yet to taste.

For some time I was incubating an idea of introducing the infrastructure
which may help regular developers like
myself and businesses make some income from what we are creating on daily
basis, and improve the
creations further.

In short, on top of every open greatness, it is good to have options.

The last thing I am willing to do is to build something no one needs, so I
have decided to evaluate an idea.
The idea is simple: introducing the commercial option to the great
ecosystem we already have.
Proposed http://projars.com concept is similar to well-organised
clojars/leiningen/maven content delivery system but with
commercial products in mind.

I have put the small introduction on the site, please feel free to
subscribe on site if you are interested, discuss, throw the stones
in my direction etc.

Again, the link is http://projars.com

Any feedback will help a lot.

Stanislav.

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  • Bastien at Nov 28, 2013 at 10:53 am
    Hi Stanislav,

    Stanislav Yurin <juskrey@gmail.com> writes:
    In short, on top of every open greatness, it is good to have
    options. Indeed.
    The last thing I am willing to do is to build something no one needs,
    so I have decided to evaluate an idea.
    The idea is simple: introducing the commercial option to the great
    ecosystem we already have.
    Proposed http://projars.com concept is similar to well-organised
    clojars/leiningen/maven content delivery system but with
    commercial products in mind.
    I've nothing against such a move, as long as it does not "swallow"
    some of the free software code out there. But I guess it won't.

    I'm working on a website where people will be able to ask donations
    more easily for their FLOSS achievements and future projects, I'd love
    to see both directions (more commercial options and more crowdfunded
    FLOSS libraries) encouraged at the same time.

    2 cents,

    --
      Bastien

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  • Josh Kamau at Nov 28, 2013 at 10:59 am
    "as long as it does not "swallow"
    some of the free software code out there."

    I have the same fears.

    Josh

    On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Bastien wrote:

    Hi Stanislav,

    Stanislav Yurin <juskrey@gmail.com> writes:
    In short, on top of every open greatness, it is good to have
    options. Indeed.
    The last thing I am willing to do is to build something no one needs,
    so I have decided to evaluate an idea.
    The idea is simple: introducing the commercial option to the great
    ecosystem we already have.
    Proposed http://projars.com concept is similar to well-organised
    clojars/leiningen/maven content delivery system but with
    commercial products in mind.
    I've nothing against such a move, as long as it does not "swallow"
    some of the free software code out there. But I guess it won't.

    I'm working on a website where people will be able to ask donations
    more easily for their FLOSS achievements and future projects, I'd love
    to see both directions (more commercial options and more crowdfunded
    FLOSS libraries) encouraged at the same time.

    2 cents,

    --
    Bastien

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  • Stanislav Yurin at Nov 28, 2013 at 11:37 am
    Hi,

    Thanks Bastien, Josh,
    I think we have yet to find an example of such kind of "swallowing", if any
    exists.
    On contrary, we even have plenty of examples when commercial projects
    turned FOSS,
    not talking about peaceful coexistence of openness and alternative
    licensing schemes.
    And it is often a question of personal freedom for many, after all (let me
    begin with myself).
    On Thursday, November 28, 2013 12:53:22 PM UTC+2, Bastien Guerry wrote:

    Hi Stanislav,

    Stanislav Yurin <jus...@gmail.com <javascript:>> writes:
    In short, on top of every open greatness, it is good to have
    options. Indeed.
    The last thing I am willing to do is to build something no one needs,
    so I have decided to evaluate an idea.
    The idea is simple: introducing the commercial option to the great
    ecosystem we already have.
    Proposed http://projars.com concept is similar to well-organised
    clojars/leiningen/maven content delivery system but with
    commercial products in mind.
    I've nothing against such a move, as long as it does not "swallow"
    some of the free software code out there. But I guess it won't.

    I'm working on a website where people will be able to ask donations
    more easily for their FLOSS achievements and future projects, I'd love
    to see both directions (more commercial options and more crowdfunded
    FLOSS libraries) encouraged at the same time.

    2 cents,

    --
    Bastien
    --
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
    Groups "Clojure" group.
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    Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post.
    To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
    clojure+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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  • Bastien at Nov 28, 2013 at 4:49 pm
    Hi Stanislav,

    just to clarify my position: I'm fine with diversity, and I don't
    expect any FLOSS clojure project to be swallowed. I just wanted to
    mention my hope of more donation-supported libraries. But that's a
    different issue and I don't want to hijack this thread (more than I
    already did... sorry!)

    Good luck,

    --
      Bastien

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  • John Wiseman at Nov 29, 2013 at 8:30 am

    On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 2:53 AM, Bastien wrote:
    I'm working on a website where people will be able to ask donations
    more easily for their FLOSS achievements and future projects, I'd love
    to see both directions (more commercial options and more crowdfunded
    FLOSS libraries) encouraged at the same time.
    On this topic, I recently ran across https://www.suprmasv.com/

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  • Joshua Ballanco at Nov 28, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    On Thursday, November 28, 2013 at 12:10, Stanislav Yurin wrote:
    Hello, Clojure community.

    I have been following the Clojure path for nearly two years now, and have really great pleasure
    using it in my personal and job projects, watching the community delivering a lot of great things,
    most of that I have yet to taste.

    For some time I was incubating an idea of introducing the infrastructure which may help regular developers like
    myself and businesses make some income from what we are creating on daily basis, and improve the
    creations further.

    In short, on top of every open greatness, it is good to have options.

    The last thing I am willing to do is to build something no one needs, so I have decided to evaluate an idea.
    The idea is simple: introducing the commercial option to the great ecosystem we already have.
    Proposed http://projars.com concept is similar to well-organised clojars/leiningen/maven content delivery system but with
    commercial products in mind.

    I have put the small introduction on the site, please feel free to subscribe on site if you are interested, discuss, throw the stones
    in my direction etc.

    Again, the link is http://projars.com

    Any feedback will help a lot.
    Hi Stanislav,

    It’s an interesting idea to be sure. I think that, as open source and software in general “eat the world”, there will definitely be room for interesting new ways for people to be able to contribute to the community while still putting a roof over their heads and food on their tables. Soliciting donations/tips is one model. Crowd funding is another. However, in both cases I think there is an outlier effect at play where a few people will do very well, but most will never reach sustainability. On the other hand, there are some models that I’ve seen work very well for different people:

    * Premium features: a project where a large chunk of the functionality is available as open source, but some critical piece (usually related to scale) is only available to paying customers. Successful projects I’ve seen work this model include Phusion Passenger, Riak, Sidekiq, and Datomic. The quite obvious difficulty with this model is that you need to have a pre-existing product, probably a fairly sizable one, before people are willing to pay for premium features.

    * Feature bounties: an open source project where financial backers may pay some sum to have their pet features prioritized over others. LuaJIT, famously, has been completely financed via this model. The difficulty with this model is that you probably need to have a fairly well established reputation and project before just anyone is willing to pay you for a feature (also known as: we can’t all be Mike Pall).

    * Commercial dual licensing: if you release an open source project under the GPL, many commercial organizations won’t use it. However, as the author of an open source project, you are free to sell these commercial organizations a copy of the software under different licensing terms. This way the open source community can benefit, and the corporate lawyers can be kept happy at the same time. This is probably best recognized as MySQL’s model, but I know of others (including Glencoe Software, my current employer) who have made this work. The difficulty here is that, since you’d be providing the same source to both the community and to commercial entities, there *could* be some amount of policing needed to ensure that commercial entities aren’t just taking the open source version and violating your license (though I think such behavior is rarer than most might think).

    * Early access: fairly self explanatory…if you pay you get upgrades/features/bug fixes before the community at large. The one project I can think of off the top of my head that has had great success here is PyMOL. This model is probably easiest for someone starting out, as you don’t have to worry *so* much about the source being leaked if it’ll be released generally in 6-12 months anyway.

    Obviously, I don’t expect that your endeavor would be suitable for all of these models. There’s also the model I left out: just sell commercial software. If you’re concerned about providing a way for people to make some money while still fostering the open source community, though, I think it would be interesting to see what you could do to provide support and/or tooling for one or more of these models.

    Best of luck with the endeavor regardless!

    Cheers,

    Josh



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  • Stanislav Yurin at Nov 29, 2013 at 8:36 am
    Hi Joshua,
    Your answer is very much appreciated.

    My hypothesis right now is that highly successful /open source/ projects,
    already having profit or not, can usually take care of themselves. As well
    as hardly any established software company needs a broker. But examples on
    everyone's lips are very very
    small part of real ecosystem. Something like 0.1%, and that could be very
    optimistic.

    What is of particular interest for me is other 99.9%, first of all because
    I myself have belonged to that part for a long time, have
    seen hundreds of active and abandoned projects of various quality,
    completeness and success.
    To say in general, one does not need to have incredibly large user base to
    make her living, neither to be the github, blogging and tutorial
    blockbuster.
    Take a walk from any street around the corner and count small businesses
    down there. Probably a half dozen.
    Probably you see and hear them for the first time. But they are still
    there, as well as another pack around the next corner.

    Currently I am looking to such services as Codecanyon, Binpress as an
    example of what could be done, or, to be more precise,
    as an evidence that something could be done.

    What license types can work out for Clojure and similar communities, that
    is the good subject for experimenting. I am no prophet,
    and, as you can see, the best I can do right now is to ask questions and
    make assumptions.

    Thanks again for you attention.
    Stanislav.
    On Thursday, November 28, 2013 11:40:57 PM UTC+2, Joshua Ballanco wrote:
    On Thursday, November 28, 2013 at 12:10, Stanislav Yurin wrote:
    Hello, Clojure community.

    I have been following the Clojure path for nearly two years now, and
    have really great pleasure
    using it in my personal and job projects, watching the community
    delivering a lot of great things,
    most of that I have yet to taste.

    For some time I was incubating an idea of introducing the infrastructure
    which may help regular developers like
    myself and businesses make some income from what we are creating on
    daily basis, and improve the
    creations further.

    In short, on top of every open greatness, it is good to have options.

    The last thing I am willing to do is to build something no one needs, so
    I have decided to evaluate an idea.
    The idea is simple: introducing the commercial option to the great
    ecosystem we already have.
    Proposed http://projars.com concept is similar to well-organised
    clojars/leiningen/maven content delivery system but with
    commercial products in mind.

    I have put the small introduction on the site, please feel free to
    subscribe on site if you are interested, discuss, throw the stones
    in my direction etc.

    Again, the link is http://projars.com

    Any feedback will help a lot.
    Hi Stanislav,

    It’s an interesting idea to be sure. I think that, as open source and
    software in general “eat the world”, there will definitely be room for
    interesting new ways for people to be able to contribute to the community
    while still putting a roof over their heads and food on their tables.
    Soliciting donations/tips is one model. Crowd funding is another. However,
    in both cases I think there is an outlier effect at play where a few people
    will do very well, but most will never reach sustainability. On the other
    hand, there are some models that I’ve seen work very well for different
    people:

    * Premium features: a project where a large chunk of the functionality is
    available as open source, but some critical piece (usually related to
    scale) is only available to paying customers. Successful projects I’ve seen
    work this model include Phusion Passenger, Riak, Sidekiq, and Datomic. The
    quite obvious difficulty with this model is that you need to have a
    pre-existing product, probably a fairly sizable one, before people are
    willing to pay for premium features.

    * Feature bounties: an open source project where financial backers may pay
    some sum to have their pet features prioritized over others. LuaJIT,
    famously, has been completely financed via this model. The difficulty with
    this model is that you probably need to have a fairly well established
    reputation and project before just anyone is willing to pay you for a
    feature (also known as: we can’t all be Mike Pall).

    * Commercial dual licensing: if you release an open source project under
    the GPL, many commercial organizations won’t use it. However, as the author
    of an open source project, you are free to sell these commercial
    organizations a copy of the software under different licensing terms. This
    way the open source community can benefit, and the corporate lawyers can be
    kept happy at the same time. This is probably best recognized as MySQL’s
    model, but I know of others (including Glencoe Software, my current
    employer) who have made this work. The difficulty here is that, since you’d
    be providing the same source to both the community and to commercial
    entities, there *could* be some amount of policing needed to ensure that
    commercial entities aren’t just taking the open source version and
    violating your license (though I think such behavior is rarer than most
    might think).

    * Early access: fairly self explanatory…if you pay you get
    upgrades/features/bug fixes before the community at large. The one project
    I can think of off the top of my head that has had great success here is
    PyMOL. This model is probably easiest for someone starting out, as you
    don’t have to worry *so* much about the source being leaked if it’ll be
    released generally in 6-12 months anyway.

    Obviously, I don’t expect that your endeavor would be suitable for all of
    these models. There’s also the model I left out: just sell commercial
    software. If you’re concerned about providing a way for people to make some
    money while still fostering the open source community, though, I think it
    would be interesting to see what you could do to provide support and/or
    tooling for one or more of these models.

    Best of luck with the endeavor regardless!

    Cheers,

    Josh


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