FAQ
Is there any way to use modules in CakePHP, it should work like
plugins, but i dont want to use plugins to create modules... it would
have it´s own Model, View and Controller folders inside...

If there isnt this feature yet, it could be applyed on next updates,
couldnt?

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  • The_woodsman at Jun 21, 2012 at 12:26 am
    +1 for being able to configure Cake like this!

    IMHO, there's something much more elegant in the dir structure:

    /Users
    /controllers
    /models
    /views

    /Articles
    /controllers,
    etc!

    Many other frameworks take this approach, and to me it seems easier to
    modularise your code - for example, if you wanted to share some code, but
    for whatever reason didn't want to use a plugin, you could just do an
    svn external (or export, or copy, etc etc) to get a nice working component.
    On Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:37:13 UTC+1, André Luis wrote:

    Is there any way to use modules in CakePHP, it should work like
    plugins, but i dont want to use plugins to create modules... it would
    have it´s own Model, View and Controller folders inside...

    If there isnt this feature yet, it could be applyed on next updates,
    couldnt?
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  • Rchavik at Jun 21, 2012 at 1:21 am

    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:26:44 AM UTC+7, the_woodsman wrote:
    +1 for being able to configure Cake like this!

    IMHO, there's something much more elegant in the dir structure:

    /Users
    /controllers
    /models
    /views

    /Articles
    /controllers,
    etc!
    There's practically no difference to sticking those under APP/Plugin/Users
    and APP/Plugin/Articles.

    Many other frameworks take this approach, and to me it seems easier to
    modularise your code - for example, if you wanted to share some code, but
    for whatever reason didn't want to use a plugin, you could just do an
    svn external (or export, or copy, etc etc) to get a nice working component.
    I like the separation. I *know* that 3rd party files can always be found
    under APP/Plugin.
    On Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:37:13 UTC+1, André Luis wrote:

    Is there any way to use modules in CakePHP, it should work like
    plugins, but i dont want to use plugins to create modules... it would
    have it´s own Model, View and Controller folders inside...
    Why not just use plugins then ?

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  • The_woodsman at Jun 21, 2012 at 10:07 am
    Re the difference with plugins - I get your point, but if I want to have a
    plugin with multiple models and controllers etc, then surely I still end up
    losing that module structure, and end up with /Controllers and /Views
    lumping things together?

    My best reasoning for this is:

    * easier to share code around, without resorting to plugins, or when
    plugins are inappropriate / overkill
    * less hassle when developing / debugging - I think generally people work
    on a feature or bug across, say, the Users model, view and controller, much
    more than they work on multiple controllers or views in one sittin. You
    just spend less time scanning file lists jumping around directories!
    * Over time, the controllers/models/views directories can become quite
    crowded
    * easier to have libs / classes related to a module, rather than in a
    catch-all folder
    * mitigates the issues with name clashes (i.e a Layout or Element
    controller can't have the same name as it's Views folder>)
    * It's just conceptually closer to the separation of concerns - each folder
    now relates to a business concept, rather than a coding concept, my code
    related to users is all in one place, rather than littered around three
    different directories
    * Encourages less coupled code - in theory these modules could almost be
    framework agnostic, whereas lumping files in /controller etc doesnt'
    encourage that way of thinking
    * personal preference :)

    I understand it might be a lot fo work to change Cake to support this, and
    whether that effort is justified is clearly arguable - but that's a
    different issue than whether the idea's got merit :)
    On Thursday, 21 June 2012 02:21:45 UTC+1, rchavik wrote:
    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:26:44 AM UTC+7, the_woodsman wrote:

    +1 for being able to configure Cake like this!

    IMHO, there's something much more elegant in the dir structure:

    /Users
    /controllers
    /models
    /views

    /Articles
    /controllers,
    etc!
    There's practically no difference to sticking those under APP/Plugin/Users
    and APP/Plugin/Articles.

    Many other frameworks take this approach, and to me it seems easier to
    modularise your code - for example, if you wanted to share some code, but
    for whatever reason didn't want to use a plugin, you could just do an
    svn external (or export, or copy, etc etc) to get a nice working component.
    I like the separation. I *know* that 3rd party files can always be found
    under APP/Plugin.
    On Wednesday, 20 June 2012 15:37:13 UTC+1, André Luis wrote:

    Is there any way to use modules in CakePHP, it should work like
    plugins, but i dont want to use plugins to create modules... it would
    have it´s own Model, View and Controller folders inside...
    Why not just use plugins then ?
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  • AD7six at Jun 21, 2012 at 11:10 am

    On Thursday, 21 June 2012 12:07:27 UTC+2, the_woodsman wrote:
    Re the difference with plugins - I get your point, but if I want to have a
    plugin with multiple models and controllers etc, then surely I still end up
    losing that module structure, and end up with /Controllers and /Views
    lumping things together?

    My best reasoning for this is:

    * easier to share code around, without resorting to plugins, or when
    plugins are inappropriate / overkill
    Can you give a specific an explicit example of how a plugin is
    inappropriate / overkill please.

    AD

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  • André Luis at Jun 21, 2012 at 1:54 pm
    It´s not the cause of being appropriate or not, but i would like to
    use plugins folder ONLY for really PLUGINS, wich i dont change
    anything, just use... Modular will work ONLY for that application.

    The reason for modular programming is:
    imagine you have /products/categories wich uses Category model, and
    you have also /blog/categories wich would use also a Category model
    that you need to give it another name, or create plugins to separate
    models/controllers and views with same name but different objectives.

    I hope soon Cake have this feature wich some other frameworks already
    have, but even i prefer much more cake.
    On 21 jun, 08:10, AD7six wrote:
    On Thursday, 21 June 2012 12:07:27 UTC+2, the_woodsman wrote:

    Re the difference with plugins - I get your point, but if I want to have a
    plugin with multiple models and controllers etc, then surely I still end up
    losing that module structure, and end up with /Controllers and /Views
    lumping things together?
    My best reasoning for this is:
    * easier to share code around, without resorting to plugins, or when
    plugins are inappropriate / overkill
    Can you give a specific an explicit example of how a plugin is
    inappropriate / overkill please.

    AD
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  • AD7six at Jun 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    On Thursday, 21 June 2012 15:44:26 UTC+2, André Luis wrote:
    It´s not the cause of being appropriate or not, but i would like to
    use plugins folder ONLY for really PLUGINS, wich i dont change
    anything, just use... Modular will work ONLY for that application.
    So - put your modules in the app/Plugin folder, and put your plugins in
    your ./Plugin folder. I think you dont yet recognise that a plugin can be
    anything - even a single file/class.
    The reason for modular programming is:
    imagine you have /products/categories wich uses Category model, and
    you have also /blog/categories wich would use also a Category model
    that you need to give it another name, or create plugins to separate
    models/controllers and views with same name but different objectives.
    I don't see how the name of the folder where you put your "modules" makes
    any difference. Above you're talking about namespaces, which is something
    that is a ~problem in <5.3 code whatever you name the folder where you put
    your "modules".

    I hope soon Cake have this feature wich some other frameworks already
    have, but even i prefer much more cake.
    It already does have this feature - you can define the include paths
    however you want.

    AD

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  • Steve Found at Jun 21, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    On 21/06/12 14:44, André Luis wrote:
    It´s not the cause of being appropriate or not, but i would like to
    use plugins folder ONLY for really PLUGINS, wich i dont change
    anything, just use... Modular will work ONLY for that application.
    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway. That's why they are
    plugins...
    You update them straight from github when you need to. If you want to modify
    the behaviour of a plugin model for example then you can extend it in
    your own
    model and override the functions you need to change. You should not be
    copying
    the plugin into your application and modifying it which is, I think,
    what you are suggesting ?
    The reason for modular programming is:
    imagine you have /products/categories wich uses Category model, and
    you have also /blog/categories wich would use also a Category model
    that you need to give it another name, or create plugins to separate
    models/controllers and views with same name but different objectives.
    In this situation, I would either create my own model in app/Model and
    extend the
    Plugin/blog/Model/Category model to give it a new table, or I would
    modify the plugins
    database configuration and give it a blog_ prefix to use on it's tables.
    I hope soon Cake have this feature wich some other frameworks already
    have, but even i prefer much more cake.
    Which frameworks encourage you to install and modify module/plugin code ?
    A list would be nice so we can know to avoid them :)

    Steve (Ratty)

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  • Jamie at Jun 22, 2012 at 3:04 am

    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, Ratty wrote:
    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway. That's why they are
    plugins...
    You update them straight from github when you need to. If you want to
    modify
    the behaviour of a plugin model for example then you can extend it in
    your own
    model and override the functions you need to change. You should not be
    copying
    the plugin into your application and modifying it which is, I think,
    what you are suggesting ?
    I think that's poor advice. If I download a third party plugin that's not
    part of the Cake core, of course I'm going to modify it to suit my needs.
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you need to change a plugin,
    then change it. The only code that most people shouldn't be messing with is
    the core, though if you know what you're doing and you're careful, that's
    not a sin either.

    Remember, at the end of the day, the code works for you - not the other way
    around.

    - Jamie

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  • Rchavik at Jun 22, 2012 at 3:13 am

    On Friday, June 22, 2012 10:03:57 AM UTC+7, Jamie wrote:

    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, Ratty wrote:

    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway. That's why they are
    plugins...
    You update them straight from github when you need to. If you want to
    modify
    the behaviour of a plugin model for example then you can extend it in
    your own
    model and override the functions you need to change. You should not be
    copying
    the plugin into your application and modifying it which is, I think,
    what you are suggesting ?
    I think that's poor advice. If I download a third party plugin that's not
    part of the Cake core, of course I'm going to modify it to suit my needs.
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you need to change a plugin,
    then change it. The only code that most people shouldn't be messing with is
    the core, though if you know what you're doing and you're careful, that's
    not a sin either.
    Not really. I think a good plugin would allow some sort configuration or
    ways to utilize its functionality in the main app (or even from a separate
    plugin) without changing the plugin code. For example, the search plugin
    allows you to customize the search fields and conditions _without_ changes
    to the plugin itself.

    Of course, there are cases that this is not feasible to do, but this is
    separate issue.


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  • Steve Found at Jun 22, 2012 at 10:40 am

    On 22/06/12 04:03, Jamie wrote:

    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, Ratty wrote:

    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway. That's why they
    are
    plugins...
    You update them straight from github when you need to. If you want
    to modify
    the behaviour of a plugin model for example then you can extend it in
    your own
    model and override the functions you need to change. You should
    not be
    copying
    the plugin into your application and modifying it which is, I think,
    what you are suggesting ?


    I think that's poor advice. If I download a third party plugin that's
    not part of the Cake core, of course I'm going to modify it to suit my
    needs. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you need to
    change a plugin, then change it. The only code that most people
    shouldn't be messing with is the core, though if you know what you're
    doing and you're careful, that's not a sin either.

    Remember, at the end of the day, the code works for you - not the
    other way around.

    - Jamie
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    Well as long as you are happy to change it again and again every time
    they fix bugs and re-release the plugin then that's fine.

    Personally, I would rather install it and have it working in a couple of
    minutes rather than remembering how I modified it last time.

    Steve.

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  • SpazzyV at Jun 22, 2012 at 10:56 am
    Also, if we are adding functionality to a plug-in, or fixing something that
    doesn't quite work. We should probably committing that code back with the
    owner of the plug-in. Considering most plug-in developers are scratching
    their own itch, and not necessarily doing a market needs assessment to
    determine how they could make the plug-in more robust, it would be a nice
    way for us to 'pay' for the use of the code that does fit our needs by
    committing additional things back to the original. This would also mitigate
    the need to try and manually incorporate changes from the main line of code
    when they do release thing.

    Vinnie
    On Friday, June 22, 2012 6:39:50 AM UTC-4, Ratty wrote:

    On 22/06/12 04:03, Jamie wrote:


    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, Ratty wrote:

    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway. That's why they are
    plugins...
    You update them straight from github when you need to. If you want to
    modify
    the behaviour of a plugin model for example then you can extend it in
    your own
    model and override the functions you need to change. You should not be
    copying
    the plugin into your application and modifying it which is, I think,
    what you are suggesting ?
    I think that's poor advice. If I download a third party plugin that's
    not part of the Cake core, of course I'm going to modify it to suit my
    needs. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you need to change a
    plugin, then change it. The only code that most people shouldn't be messing
    with is the core, though if you know what you're doing and you're careful,
    that's not a sin either.

    Remember, at the end of the day, the code works for you - not the other
    way around.

    - Jamie
    --
    Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials
    http://tv.cakephp.org
    Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org and help
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    Well as long as you are happy to change it again and again every
    time they fix bugs and re-release the plugin then that's fine.


    Personally, I would rather install it and have it working in a couple of
    minutes rather than remembering how I modified it last time.

    Steve.
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  • Steve Found at Jun 22, 2012 at 11:10 am
    TOTALLY agree Vinnie.

    I believe that's what Open Source is all about.

    Steve.

    On 22/06/12 11:56, SpazzyV wrote:
    Also, if we are adding functionality to a plug-in, or fixing something
    that doesn't quite work. We should probably committing that code back
    with the owner of the plug-in. Considering most plug-in developers are
    scratching their own itch, and not necessarily doing a market needs
    assessment to determine how they could make the plug-in more robust,
    it would be a nice way for us to 'pay' for the use of the code that
    does fit our needs by committing additional things back to the
    original. This would also mitigate the need to try and manually
    incorporate changes from the main line of code when they do release thing.

    Vinnie
    On Friday, June 22, 2012 6:39:50 AM UTC-4, Ratty wrote:
    On 22/06/12 04:03, Jamie wrote:


    On Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:23:44 AM UTC-7, Ratty wrote:

    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway. That's why
    they are
    plugins...
    You update them straight from github when you need to. If you
    want to modify
    the behaviour of a plugin model for example then you can
    extend it in
    your own
    model and override the functions you need to change. You
    should not be
    copying
    the plugin into your application and modifying it which is, I
    think,
    what you are suggesting ?


    I think that's poor advice. If I download a third party plugin
    that's not part of the Cake core, of course I'm going to modify
    it to suit my needs. There's absolutely nothing wrong with
    that. If you need to change a plugin, then change it. The only
    code that most people shouldn't be messing with is the core,
    though if you know what you're doing and you're careful, that's
    not a sin either.

    Remember, at the end of the day, the code works for you - not the
    other way around.

    - Jamie
    --
    Our newest site for the community: CakePHP Video Tutorials
    http://tv.cakephp.org
    Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://ask.cakephp.org
    and help others with their CakePHP related questions.

    Well as long as you are happy to change it again and
    again every time they fix bugs and re-release the plugin then
    that's fine.
    Personally, I would rather install it and have it working in a
    couple of minutes rather than remembering how I modified it last time.

    Steve.

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  • AD7six at Jun 22, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    On Thursday, 21 June 2012 18:23:44 UTC+2, Ratty wrote:
    On 21/06/12 14:44, Andr� Luis wrote:
    It�s not the cause of being appropriate or not, but i would like to
    use plugins folder ONLY for really PLUGINS, wich i dont change
    anything, just use... Modular will work ONLY for that application.
    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway.

    That's only true if the plugin code is not-yours.

    I think there is generally a lot of confusion in this thread about what
    plugins are. So let's attempt to clear that up: *A plugin is just a
    namespace.*
    *
    *
    It's just the name of a folder with "stuff" in it. That stuff can be almost
    anything. There are several common types of stuff:

    * Someone else's code you are using [1]
    * Some of your own code you share between projects
    * A place to put any random class/code in a neat box
    * Atomic parts of your application [2]

    The last one is the most relevant to the first post in this thread. For
    example, the apps I work with right now use 5-15 plugins, their app
    controller/model/view folders are typically empty.

    In addition you can organize your paths any way you want - if you want a
    "modules" folder you can just do:

    App::build(array('Plugin', array('Modules'));

    A real example of what Andre or the_woodsman mean when they talk about
    modules would probably clear a lot of things up so if either of you would
    like to fill out this template:

    -----
    Right now using cake files are here:

    <real example>

    Using plugins files would look like this:

    <real example reorganized>

    Using modules files would look like this:

    <real example reorganized>
    -----

    that would be peachy.

    AD

    [1] This is ONE TYPE of plugin. it is not the definition of a plugin
    [2] This is a "module"

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  • Steve Found at Jun 23, 2012 at 1:11 pm
    I *think* he was talking about case [1] to be honest AD. In the example
    given, it was to change a plugin due to database table clashes. I would
    hope that if it was your own plugin, then database table clashes would
    have been thought about beforehand.

    Some clarification would indeed be peachy though !!! :)

    Steve

    On 22/06/12 14:39, AD7six wrote:


    On Thursday, 21 June 2012 18:23:44 UTC+2, Ratty wrote:
    On 21/06/12 14:44, Andr� Luis wrote:
    It�s not the cause of being appropriate or not, but i would like to
    use plugins folder ONLY for really PLUGINS, wich i dont change
    anything, just use... Modular will work ONLY for that application.
    You should not be changing any plugin code anyway.


    That's only true if the plugin code is not-yours.

    I think there is generally a lot of confusion in this thread about
    what plugins are. So let's attempt to clear that up: *A plugin is just
    a namespace.*
    *
    *
    It's just the name of a folder with "stuff" in it. That stuff can be
    almost anything. There are several common types of stuff:

    * Someone else's code you are using [1]
    * Some of your own code you share between projects
    * A place to put any random class/code in a neat box
    * Atomic parts of your application [2]

    The last one is the most relevant to the first post in this thread.
    For example, the apps I work with right now use 5-15 plugins, their
    app controller/model/view folders are typically empty.

    In addition you can organize your paths any way you want - if you want
    a "modules" folder you can just do:

    App::build(array('Plugin', array('Modules'));

    A real example of what Andre or the_woodsman mean when they talk about
    modules would probably clear a lot of things up so if either of you
    would like to fill out this template:

    -----
    Right now using cake files are here:

    <real example>

    Using plugins files would look like this:

    <real example reorganized>

    Using modules files would look like this:

    <real example reorganized>
    -----

    that would be peachy.

    AD

    [1] This is ONE TYPE of plugin. it is not the definition of a plugin
    [2] This is a "module"

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  • Lowpass at Jun 22, 2012 at 1:00 am

    On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 6:07 AM, the_woodsman wrote:
    * Encourages less coupled code - in theory these modules could almost be
    framework agnostic,
    That's what the Vendors folder is for. Anything in there that's
    Cake-specific should be in Plugins. And *those* are called "plugins"
    specifically because they're designed to PLUG IN to Cake. They're not
    framework-agnostic and were never meant to be.
    whereas lumping files in /controller etc doesnt'
    encourage that way of thinking
    If you don't like cluttering up a single folder with all your
    controllers then create plugins for these things. Then you can put all
    your controllers each by themselves in their own individual
    directories.

    But that's got nothing at all to do with writing code that works in
    any framework. It's not like there are any Symfony "actions" classes
    that would work in Cake.

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  • André Luis at Jun 25, 2012 at 2:28 pm
    Another thing for example... i have plugin users, also i have controller
    users... if i have to access the action login in plugin users and
    controller users... the url would be /users/users/login, it would be nice
    if the plugin checks if there isnt a controller called login, if not it
    sends the url to controller users and action login, instead of trying to
    reach controller login in plugin users... Yes, i know it can be done with
    the Router, but a check if controller exists would be really nice. And i
    still prefer keeping my plugins folder untouched and use a modular folder
    to do the same of plugin, but without the needing to load all plugins or
    specific plugins, just module...

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