FAQ
I'm reproducing a short entry I wrote at the behest of Oracle below. I, and
I'm sure others, have been known to whinge from time to time about the OCP.
Oracle Ed is at least asking practicing DBAs for their opinions, hence the
post and the ad here. Apologies to the list admins if the ad is too much
Well here's a blog entry I didn't think I'd write. One that comes as a
direct result of a request from Oracle Corp, specifically Oracle Education.
The email I received is reproduced below.

Today we are releasing an Oracle Database Job Task Analysis Survey to
determine what tasks are important and relevant to Oracle Database
Administrators as we look to define future Oracle Database Certification and
Curriculum Offerings.

We would really appreciate if if you could help us by posting this
information on your Database related Blog sites.

*Take the Oracle DBA Job Task Survey!...*
Are you an Oracle Database Administrator? Would you like to help define the
depth and scope of future Oracle Database training and certification? Join
with other Oracle experts to take an online survey and tell us what tasks
are important to you.
*Learn More*<http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517>

I took the survey which you can find
here<http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517>
last
night. Overall I'm happy to help publicize the survey for the following
reasons.

Practitioners who actually do the job are probably a better judge of
task importance than educators.
Practitioners who actually do the job are probably a better judge of
task importance than consultants like me.
The OCP needs improvement and focus to remain of value.
The OCP needs in my opinion anyway to provide proof of practical
expertise and not book learning.

All of these issues can be addressed to some extent by actually asking
practitioners what they do and don't find useful in the real world. One
thing I wasn't expecting, but only because I didn't read the welcome page
given how I'd got there, was the fact that you get a download of the 11g
Interactive Reference guide at the end of the survey. Anyway please do take
the survey<http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517>,
its short, focussed and worthwhile. If like me you occasionally whine about
the OCP here's your chance to contribute at least something.

Search Discussions

  • Jason arneil at Sep 10, 2011 at 9:54 am
    Niall,
    Totally agree with the sentiments behind this and I'll be taking it.
    I've definitely got a couple points to get of my chest:

    Practical experience should not equate to having to take a *very* expensive
    Oracle education course. It is completely ludicrous for oracle to suggest
    (as have some in oracle education) that sitting on a course shows the
    candidate is not just a "paper based" dba. Any fool can turn up to a course,
    but that is no guarantee anything is going on.

    I really do feel some of the questions can be of the "what relevance to
    the real world does this have?" variety, or the "why would want to carry
    this information around in your head, when I could just look it up" variety.

    Cheers for highlighting this, I'll definitely be taking the survey!

    jason.

    --
    http://jarneil.wordpress.com
    *Take the Oracle DBA Job Task Survey!...*
    Are you an Oracle Database Administrator? Would you like to help define the
    depth and scope of future Oracle Database training and certification? Join
    with other Oracle experts to take an online survey and tell us what tasks
    are important to you.
    *Learn More*<
    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517
    I took the survey which you can find
    here<
    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517
    last
    night. Overall I'm happy to help publicize the survey for the following
    reasons.

    - Practitioners who actually do the job are probably a better judge of
    task importance than educators.
    - Practitioners who actually do the job are probably a better judge of
    task importance than consultants like me.
    - The OCP needs improvement and focus to remain of value.
    - The OCP needs in my opinion anyway to provide proof of practical
    expertise and not book learning.



    --
    Niall Litchfield
    Oracle DBA
    http://www.orawin.info


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Pete Finnigan at Sep 12, 2011 at 2:21 pm
    Niall, Jason

    Reminded me of a story about Einstein, someone once asked him one of his
    own formulas and he didnt know it. the student was shocked but Einstien
    simply said i dont need to carry that around in my head and he is right.
    Real world experience is not just about having do it but also about the
    big picture about knowing what to do, why and where to find out; having
    lots of step by step instructions learned rote wont help when you need
    to make decisions

    cheers

    Pete

    jason arneil wrote:
    Niall,
    Totally agree with the sentiments behind this and I'll be taking it.
    I've definitely got a couple points to get of my chest:

    1. Practical experience should not equate to having to take a *very* expensive
    Oracle education course. It is completely ludicrous for oracle to suggest
    (as have some in oracle education) that sitting on a course shows the
    candidate is not just a "paper based" dba. Any fool can turn up to a course,
    but that is no guarantee anything is going on.

    2. I really do feel some of the questions can be of the "what relevance to
    the real world does this have?" variety, or the "why would want to carry
    this information around in your head, when I could just look it up" variety.

    Cheers for highlighting this, I'll definitely be taking the survey!

    jason.
    --
    http://jarneil.wordpress.com

    *Take the Oracle DBA Job Task Survey!...*
    Are you an Oracle Database Administrator? Would you like to help define the
    depth and scope of future Oracle Database training and certification? Join
    with other Oracle experts to take an online survey and tell us what tasks
    are important to you.
    *Learn More*<
    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517
    I took the survey which you can find
    here<
    http://education.oracle.com/pls/web_prod-plq-dad/db_pages.getpage?page_id=517
    last
    night. Overall I'm happy to help publicize the survey for the following
    reasons.

    - Practitioners who actually do the job are probably a better judge of
    task importance than educators.
    - Practitioners who actually do the job are probably a better judge of
    task importance than consultants like me.
    - The OCP needs improvement and focus to remain of value.
    - The OCP needs in my opinion anyway to provide proof of practical
    expertise and not book learning.



    --
    Niall Litchfield
    Oracle DBA
    http://www.orawin.info


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --

    Pete Finnigan
    CEO and Founder
    PeteFinnigan.com Limited

    Specialists in database security.

    Makers of PFCLScan the database security auditing tool.
    Makers of PFCLObfuscate the tool to protect IPR in your PL/SQL

    If you need help to audit or secure an Oracle database, please ask for
    details of our training courses and consulting services

    Phone: +44 (0)1904 791188
    Fax : +44 (0)1904 791188
    Mob : +44 (0)7759 277220
    email: pete_at_petefinnigan.com
    site : http://www.petefinnigan.com

    Registered Office: 9 Beech Grove, Acomb, York, YO26 5LD, United Kingdom
    Company No : 4664901
    VAT No. : 940668114

    Please note that this email communication is intended only for the
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    organisation only and may not be communicated to third parties without
    the prior written permission of PeteFinnigan.com Limited. This email is
    not intended nor should it be taken to create any legal relations,
    contractual or otherwise.

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Jared Still at Sep 13, 2011 at 1:30 am

    On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Pete Finnigan wrote:
    Niall, Jason

    Reminded me of a story about Einstein, someone once asked him one of his
    own formulas and he didnt know it. the student was shocked but Einstien
    simply said i dont need to carry that around in my head and he is right.
    Real world experience is not just about having do it but also about the
    big picture about knowing what to do, why and where to find out; having
    lots of step by step instructions learned rote wont help when you need
    to make decisions
    Nice analogy, thanks Pete.

    Anyone can read the documentation.

    Not everyone can understand it. :)

    Jared Still
    Certifiable Oracle DBA and Part Time Perl Evangelist
    Oracle Blog: http://jkstill.blogspot.com
    Home Page: http://jaredstill.com
  • Rich Jesse at Sep 12, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    Niall writes:

    I'm reproducing a short entry I wrote at the behest of Oracle below. I, and
    I'm sure others, have been known to whinge from time to time about the OCP. ...
    *Take the Oracle DBA Job Task Survey!...*
    I find it very interesting that almost a third of respondents think that
    DBCA is "critical". Perhaps larger organizations use its templates to keep
    Jr. DBAs from messing up DB creates, but I think I'd rather have them mess
    one up so they can learn from it than being a "Click OK" Monkey. I'm
    probably reading too much into that, but I fail to see DBCA as a critical
    tool.

    Good survey. Thanks for the pointer Niall!

    Rich
  • Chitale, Hemant Krishnarao at Sep 13, 2011 at 2:56 am
    I think that I missed the part where the survey results ("almost a third of respondents think that DBCA is "critical"") were presented.
    Was it automatically from the survey or from another URL ?


    Hemant K Chitale

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Rich Jesse
    Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 11:15 PM
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: Re: for those who don't read my blog (tsk tsk!)

    Niall writes:
    I'm reproducing a short entry I wrote at the behest of Oracle below. I, and
    I'm sure others, have been known to whinge from time to time about the OCP. ...
    *Take the Oracle DBA Job Task Survey!...*
    I find it very interesting that almost a third of respondents think that
    DBCA is "critical". Perhaps larger organizations use its templates to keep
    Jr. DBAs from messing up DB creates, but I think I'd rather have them mess
    one up so they can learn from it than being a "Click OK" Monkey. I'm
    probably reading too much into that, but I fail to see DBCA as a critical
    tool.

    Good survey. Thanks for the pointer Niall!

    Rich

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  • Rich Jesse at Sep 13, 2011 at 3:04 am

    Hemant writes:

    I think that I missed the part where the survey results ("almost a third of
    respondents think that DBCA is "critical"") were presented.
    Was it automatically from the survey or from another URL ?
    For me, the survey results were listed at the end of the survey. The DBCA
    question was on page 10, IIRC.

    Thanks,
    Rich
  • Dba DBA at Sep 13, 2011 at 4:01 pm
    I don't think the OCP has any value in the marketplace in the US. The only
    companies that want OCPs are low paying sub-contractors looking for
    buzzwords. The same seems to be true for the Certified Master. The only time
    I see a company looking for an OCM it is a sub-contractor that googled
    buzzwords. To make matters worse Oracle sells the word for word questions
    and answers. The practice tests are the real questions. Virtually all
    vendors do this. There is atleast one company out there where you can sign
    up for $100 to get a life time membership. It gives you word for word
    questions and answers to all questions on virtually all certification tests.
    As long as vendors sell the word for word questions and answers
    certification will be completely useless. However, why would they stop? They
    make money selling the tests.
    The OCP is also very expensive if you have to get it now. I got certified
    back on Oracle 8i, however, today you have to take a $3000 class. To make
    matters worse, the books from Oracle press for the upgrade exams are loaded
    with errors and are missing information from the actual test. I stopped
    upgrading after 9i. It is not worth the hassle. If the OCP becomes
    entrenched that is a major expense for people to make. Most companies in the
    US do not pay for any training at all. This is especially true in the slow
    economy. Plus you would have to use your vacation time or (if you are a
    contractor), go without being paid for a week to attend the class. Then buy
    the books, memorize alot of information that is not important and that you
    will forget later on just to get or keep your job. The company I work for
    now strongly encourages us to certified (it is part of our evaluations for
    raises), but they do not provide any money for expenses. None of the DBAs
    are working on certifications. The company argues that it helps them make
    sales since they can go "look at all of our certified people". I got this
    position a few months ago. I was inteviewed by the DBA team. Certification
    was not mentioned in the job ad and no one even mentioned it during the
    interview. This push is strictly from corporate.

    To make matters worse, you have alot of for profit training companies taking
    advantage of desperate people. They offer technical certifications to people
    who have no technical background whatsoever. These people don't even get
    interviews. The classes are very expensive, and the people who take them
    often do not have alot of money and many are desperate for work. These
    companies do not do any market research and throw out big numbers using
    words like "DBAs can make up to" so much money. How often are their
    advertisements for entry level oracle DBAs? It is very rare. You may have
    one at your company, but overall it is very rare. Most DBAs started out as
    programmers or something else technical and moved over or have been DBAs for
    20 years and got into it early on.
  • Michael Dinh at Sep 13, 2011 at 4:43 pm
    I was OCP 8i/9i as well; however, I do think OCP does provide one with an edge if an employer have two candidates of equal skills to chose from.

    I would chose the OCP because the person took the extra step to get certified.

    Michael Dinh

    Disparity Breaks Automation (DBA)

    NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY - This material is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable laws.  BE FURTHER ADVISED THAT THIS EMAIL MAY CONTAIN PROTECTED HEALTH INFORMATION (PHI). BY ACCEPTING THIS MESSAGE, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THE FOREGOING, AND AGREE AS FOLLOWS: YOU AGREE TO NOT DISCLOSE TO ANY THIRD PARTY ANY PHI CONTAINED HEREIN, EXCEPT AS EXPRESSLY PERMITTED AND ONLY TO THE EXTENT NECESSARY TO PERFORM YOUR OBLIGATIONS RELATING TO THE RECEIPT OF THIS MESSAGE.  If the reader of this email (and attachments) is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender of the error and delete the e-mail you received. Thank you.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Dba DBA
    Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:02 AM
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: Re: for those who don't read my blog (tsk tsk!)

    I don't think the OCP has any value in the marketplace in the US. The only
    companies that want OCPs are low paying sub-contractors looking for
    buzzwords. The same seems to be true for the Certified Master. The only time
    I see a company looking for an OCM it is a sub-contractor that googled
    buzzwords. To make matters worse Oracle sells the word for word questions
    and answers. The practice tests are the real questions. Virtually all
    vendors do this. There is atleast one company out there where you can sign
    up for $100 to get a life time membership. It gives you word for word
    questions and answers to all questions on virtually all certification tests.
    As long as vendors sell the word for word questions and answers
    certification will be completely useless. However, why would they stop? They
    make money selling the tests.
    The OCP is also very expensive if you have to get it now. I got certified
    back on Oracle 8i, however, today you have to take a $3000 class. To make
    matters worse, the books from Oracle press for the upgrade exams are loaded
    with errors and are missing information from the actual test. I stopped
    upgrading after 9i. It is not worth the hassle. If the OCP becomes
    entrenched that is a major expense for people to make. Most companies in the
    US do not pay for any training at all. This is especially true in the slow
    economy. Plus you would have to use your vacation time or (if you are a
    contractor), go without being paid for a week to attend the class. Then buy
    the books, memorize alot of information that is not important and that you
    will forget later on just to get or keep your job. The company I work for
    now strongly encourages us to certified (it is part of our evaluations for
    raises), but they do not provide any money for expenses. None of the DBAs
    are working on certifications. The company argues that it helps them make
    sales since they can go "look at all of our certified people". I got this
    position a few months ago. I was inteviewed by the DBA team. Certification
    was not mentioned in the job ad and no one even mentioned it during the
    interview. This push is strictly from corporate.

    To make matters worse, you have alot of for profit training companies taking
    advantage of desperate people. They offer technical certifications to people
    who have no technical background whatsoever. These people don't even get
    interviews. The classes are very expensive, and the people who take them
    often do not have alot of money and many are desperate for work. These
    companies do not do any market research and throw out big numbers using
    words like "DBAs can make up to" so much money. How often are their
    advertisements for entry level oracle DBAs? It is very rare. You may have
    one at your company, but overall it is very rare. Most DBAs started out as
    programmers or something else technical and moved over or have been DBAs for
    20 years and got into it early on.

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Grabowy, Chris at Sep 13, 2011 at 7:30 pm
    So we finally got OEM 11g up and running pointing to some RAC databases.

    We have been poking around exploring the new OEM and noticed that on the Top Activity screen the ability to drill down (click on the link) for a specific offending session is no longer available. We also noticed that you can no longer drill down on a bit of offending SQL.

    At first we thought perhaps the Management Packs are not installed, but checking on the Setup screen they appear to be installed and turned on.

    Any ideas???
  • Niall Litchfield at Sep 13, 2011 at 7:58 pm
    Chris
    Not a stupid question at all. There have been an awful lot of patches for GC
    in the year or so since 11.1 was released. A number of these address RAC
    specific issues. I'd recommend patchset 11.1.0.4 and 12392767 and 12741066
    at least, but I believe there was a RAC rollup patch as well. Definitely
    worth an SR.
    On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Grabowy, Chris wrote:

    So we finally got OEM 11g up and running pointing to some RAC databases.

    We have been poking around exploring the new OEM and noticed that on the
    Top Activity screen the ability to drill down (click on the link) for a
    specific offending session is no longer available. We also noticed that you
    can no longer drill down on a bit of offending SQL.

    At first we thought perhaps the Management Packs are not installed, but
    checking on the Setup screen they appear to be installed and turned on.

    Any ideas???
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    Niall Litchfield
    Oracle DBA
    http://www.orawin.info

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • David Roberts at Sep 13, 2011 at 11:07 pm
    OK, I will reply with my opinions.

    In the most recent role I assumed, being a member of UKOUG and studying for
    a formal certification plaid a part in me being recruited.

    Personally, I found the certification process interesting.

    I have a development background and relied predominantly on the official
    McGraw Hill certification guides (and my practical experience) as the
    primary basis of my certification. I took the mandatory course as a last
    step having already passed all the required exams.

    My experience was, that by studying for the exams, I found holes in my
    knowledge that I didn't know existed. I read stuff in the exam guides and my
    jaw dropped and I tested it myself, and I found out that it was true.

    As a DBA predominantly informed by experience, it became apparent that you
    become (or at least I became) an expert in the areas that your
    employer/customer requires the most work.

    With a development background, I passed the SQL component exam with a pass
    mark in the high nineties.

    When I hit the performance tuning exam, I scraped through with the lowest
    possible pass mark. This was after I had attempted the test exams included
    with the official guides and bought a secondary, third party exam guide
    (because my results from the practice exams were poor.)

    As a developer I had a grossly exaggerated view of my competence in Oracle
    performance tuning and I learnt a significant amount about the subject from
    an alternative perspective.

    So in short I found the process both enlightening and humbling.

    OTOH, you are correct that the McGraw Hill guides are full of errors.

    It is self evident that taking certification exams is a dull pursuit, and
    writing exam guides has to be one of the more tedious roles for a technical
    author. There is the additional issue that some versions of the exam guides
    are obviously updated versions of outdated exam guides and some of the
    outdated information is not removed and some of the new information is
    obviously written by someone without practical experience of the features
    documented.

    You suggest that Oracle sells the original exam questions to the general
    public. This is a difficult question that we are unlikely to resolve in an
    email list. I would suggest that I encountered perhaps 3 questions in my
    exams that I had previously encountered in practice questions. My
    interpretation of that is that there are some very obvious questions, and
    the writers of the practice exams co-incidentally hit real questions.

    OTOH, I did not purchase any official material from Oracle, so I can't
    comment on the questions included with official Oracle CBT training
    materials. But I understand that that Oracle rotates official OCP questions
    on the exam and refreshes them from a pool of new questions.

    My expectation is that Oracle could reuse retired questions in official
    training materials, but Outside of oracle I would suggest that it would be
    difficult to establish that.

    In the UK (I have no experience of the US jobs market) I am confident that a
    formal Oracle certification would be considered a significant differentiator
    at the earliest stages of the recruitment process.

    Sometimes it is the difference in my opinion (justly or not) between no
    interview and a first interview.

    Dave.
    On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Dba DBA wrote:

    I don't think the OCP has any value in the marketplace in the US. The only
    companies that want OCPs are low paying sub-contractors looking for
    buzzwords. The same seems to be true for the Certified Master. The only
    time
    I see a company looking for an OCM it is a sub-contractor that googled
    buzzwords. To make matters worse Oracle sells the word for word questions
    and answers. The practice tests are the real questions. Virtually all
    vendors do this. There is atleast one company out there where you can sign
    up for $100 to get a life time membership. It gives you word for word
    questions and answers to all questions on virtually all certification
    tests.
    As long as vendors sell the word for word questions and answers
    certification will be completely useless. However, why would they stop?
    They
    make money selling the tests.
    The OCP is also very expensive if you have to get it now. I got certified
    back on Oracle 8i, however, today you have to take a $3000 class. To make
    matters worse, the books from Oracle press for the upgrade exams are loaded
    with errors and are missing information from the actual test. I stopped
    upgrading after 9i. It is not worth the hassle. If the OCP becomes
    entrenched that is a major expense for people to make. Most companies in
    the
    US do not pay for any training at all. This is especially true in the slow
    economy. Plus you would have to use your vacation time or (if you are a
    contractor), go without being paid for a week to attend the class. Then buy
    the books, memorize alot of information that is not important and that you
    will forget later on just to get or keep your job. The company I work for
    now strongly encourages us to certified (it is part of our evaluations for
    raises), but they do not provide any money for expenses. None of the DBAs
    are working on certifications. The company argues that it helps them make
    sales since they can go "look at all of our certified people". I got this
    position a few months ago. I was inteviewed by the DBA team. Certification
    was not mentioned in the job ad and no one even mentioned it during the
    interview. This push is strictly from corporate.

    To make matters worse, you have alot of for profit training companies
    taking
    advantage of desperate people. They offer technical certifications to
    people
    who have no technical background whatsoever. These people don't even get
    interviews. The classes are very expensive, and the people who take them
    often do not have alot of money and many are desperate for work. These
    companies do not do any market research and throw out big numbers using
    words like "DBAs can make up to" so much money. How often are their
    advertisements for entry level oracle DBAs? It is very rare. You may have
    one at your company, but overall it is very rare. Most DBAs started out as
    programmers or something else technical and moved over or have been DBAs
    for
    20 years and got into it early on.


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • David Fitzjarrell at Sep 13, 2011 at 11:38 pm
    I certified way back when the first requirement was to have at least 5 years of  progressive experience in the field and the goal was to validate the knowledge gained by experience, hence the title 'Oracle Certified Professional'.  I stopped when it became a cash-cow for Oracle and anyone, experienced or not, could acquire and proudly display the Oracle Certified Professional  logo.  Not that it hasn't helped my career, but the process has gone from useful to useless;  Oracle has tried to salvage the program by instituting the Oracle Certified Master designation requiring hands-on experience (and, gee, isn't that how this whole program began, requiring hands-on experience?)

    I have interviewed many DBA candidates and regularly dismiss the experience-less OCPs primarily because they lack in knowledge outside of the OCP study materials.  To be fair I also tend to dismiss any DBA who can't code a command in SQL*Plus to add a datafile to a tablespace or perform any of a number  of other management tasks absent a GUI.

    I agree that the time taken to study for these exams is worthwhile as it can, and often will, reveal holes in the fabric of one's Oracle knowledge gained through experience.  What I do disagree with is the notion that passing the exams, absent real-world  Oracle experience, creates a knowledgeable and reliable DBA as I haven't found that to be true.
    David Fitzjarrell
  • Robert Freeman at Sep 13, 2011 at 1:42 am
    I don't know... As I see some of the kids in this younger generation and the schools, I'm somewhat starting to worry about the reading thing. That though is for another OT thread... :)

    Rf
    On Mon Sep 12th, 2011 9:30 PM EDT Jared Still wrote:
    On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Pete Finnigan wrote:
    Niall, Jason

    Reminded me of a story about Einstein, someone once asked him one of his
    own formulas and he didnt know it. the student was shocked but Einstien
    simply said i dont need to carry that around in my head and he is right.
    Real world experience is not just about having do it but also about the
    big picture about knowing what to do, why and where to find out; having
    lots of step by step instructions learned rote wont help when you need
    to make decisions
    Nice analogy, thanks Pete.

    Anyone can read the documentation.

    Not everyone can understand it. :)


    Jared Still
    Certifiable Oracle DBA and Part Time Perl Evangelist
    Oracle Blog: http://jkstill.blogspot.com
    Home Page: http://jaredstill.com


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