FAQ
This made me sad.

Dear Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS Customers,

On Tuesday, March 22nd, Oracle announced that we are discontinuing all
new software

development on the Intel Itanium microprocessor.
The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database

10.2.0.5 and Oracle Rdb product family 7.3.

Obviously I knew it was coming, but seeing it in print still made me sad.
sigh.

Search Discussions

  • D'Hooge Freek at Apr 14, 2011 at 4:22 pm
    "The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database 10.2.0.5"

    10.2.0.5, no 11.1 or 11.2

    OpenVMS was already long abandoned by Oracle
    They just made if official now

    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer

    ---
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Barbara Baker
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 18:14
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: desupport - end of an era

    This made me sad.

    Dear Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS Customers,

    On Tuesday, March 22nd, Oracle announced that we are discontinuing all new software
    development on the Intel Itanium   microprocessor.
    The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database 10.2.0.5 and Oracle Rdb product family 7.3.

    Obviously I knew it was coming, but seeing it in print still made me sad.
    sigh.
  • Nadeem M. Khan at Apr 14, 2011 at 5:40 pm
    Does this also mean Oracle won't have any releases for HP-UX ?
    On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:22 PM, D'Hooge Freek wrote:

    "The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database
    10.2.0.5"

    10.2.0.5, no 11.1 or 11.2

    OpenVMS was already long abandoned by Oracle
    They just made if official now


    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Barbara Baker
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 18:14
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: desupport - end of an era

    This made me sad.

    Dear Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS Customers,

    On Tuesday, March 22nd, Oracle announced that we are discontinuing
    all new software
    development on the Intel Itanium microprocessor.
    The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database
    10.2.0.5 and Oracle Rdb product family 7.3.

    Obviously I knew it was coming, but seeing it in print still made me sad.
    sigh.


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Goulet, Richard at Apr 14, 2011 at 6:31 pm
    Well, In Oracle's defense:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/185196/red_hat_to_drop_itanium_support_in_enterprise_linux_6.html
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/redhat_rhel6_itanium_dead/
    http://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/224201371/microsoft-follows-red-hat-in-ending-itanium-development.htm;jsessionid=o-DbnYkJ5gxFNd4gxiAtHw**.ecappj01
    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9174798/Microsoft_ending_support_for_Itanium

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA/NA Team Leader

    -----Original Message-----
    From: D'Hooge Freek
    Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:59 PM
    To: Nadeem M. Khan
    Cc: barb.baker_at_gmail.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Subject: RE: desupport - end of an era

    Yep, Oracle has stopped developing for Itanium.
    X-archive-position: 35689
    X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
    Sender: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    X-original-sender: Freek.DHooge_at_uptime.be
    Precedence: normal
    Reply-To: Freek.DHooge_at_uptime.be

    List-help:
    List-unsubscribe:
    List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
    List-Id: oracle-l

    X-List-ID: oracle-l

    List-subscribe:
    List-owner:
    List-post:
    List-archive: <http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l>

    X-list: oracle-l

    http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/346696

    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: nadiem_at_gmail.com On Behalf Of Nadeem M. Khan
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 19:41
    To: D'Hooge Freek
    Cc: barb.baker_at_gmail.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Subject: Re: desupport - end of an era

    Does this also mean Oracle won't have any releases for HP-UX ?
    On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:22 PM, D'Hooge Freek wrote:
    "The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database 10.2.0.5"
    10.2.0.5, no 11.1 or 11.2

    OpenVMS was already long abandoned by Oracle
    They just made if official now

    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Barbara Baker
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 18:14
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: desupport - end of an era

    This made me sad.

    Dear Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS Customers,

    On Tuesday, March 22nd, Oracle announced that we are discontinuing all new software
    development on the Intel Itanium   microprocessor.
    The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database 10.2.0.5 and Oracle Rdb product family 7.3.

    Obviously I knew it was coming, but seeing it in print still made me sad.
    sigh.

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • D'Hooge Freek at Apr 14, 2011 at 8:02 pm
    Very true,

    But still, I was surprised by Oracle's move.
    I understand that windows and Redhat no longer support Itanium, they never had any real user base. But I always thought that Oracle on HP-UX had a reasonable market share.

    Regards,


    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Goulet, Richard
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 20:32
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: RE: desupport - end of an era

    Well, In Oracle's defense:

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/185196/red_hat_to_drop_itanium_support_in_enterprise_linux_6.html
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/redhat_rhel6_itanium_dead/
    http://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/224201371/microsoft-follows-red-hat-in-ending-itanium-development.htm;jsessionid=o-DbnYkJ5gxFNd4gxiAtHw**.ecappj01
    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9174798/Microsoft_ending_support_for_Itanium

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA/NA Team Leader

    -----Original Message-----
    From: D'Hooge Freek
    Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:59 PM
    To: Nadeem M. Khan
    Cc: barb.baker_at_gmail.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Subject: RE: desupport - end of an era

    Yep, Oracle has stopped developing for Itanium.
    X-archive-position: 35689
    X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
    Sender: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    X-original-sender: Freek.DHooge_at_uptime.be
    Precedence: normal
    Reply-To: Freek.DHooge_at_uptime.be

    List-help:
    List-unsubscribe:
    List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
    List-Id: oracle-l

    X-List-ID: oracle-l

    List-subscribe:
    List-owner:
    List-post:
    List-archive: <http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l>

    X-list: oracle-l

    http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/346696

    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: nadiem_at_gmail.com On Behalf Of Nadeem M. Khan
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 19:41
    To: D'Hooge Freek
    Cc: barb.baker_at_gmail.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Subject: Re: desupport - end of an era

    Does this also mean Oracle won't have any releases for HP-UX ?
    On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:22 PM, D'Hooge Freek wrote:
    "The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database 10.2.0.5"
    10.2.0.5, no 11.1 or 11.2

    OpenVMS was already long abandoned by Oracle
    They just made if official now

    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Barbara Baker
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 18:14
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: desupport - end of an era

    This made me sad.

    Dear Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS Customers,

    On Tuesday, March 22nd, Oracle announced that we are discontinuing all new software
    development on the Intel Itanium   microprocessor.
    The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database 10.2.0.5 and Oracle Rdb product family 7.3.

    Obviously I knew it was coming, but seeing it in print still made me sad.
    sigh.

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • David Roberts at Apr 14, 2011 at 10:15 pm
    I accept that the cynical position, that Oracle is taking an opportunity to
    hurt a competitor as partially valid.

    However I would suggest that the counter position is that Oracle's product
    line and business model has significantly changed.

    There was a time where Oracle had a single product and porting this product
    to as many platforms as possible had incremental and cumulative benefits.

    i.e. Adding a supplier to Oracles potential installed base
    would benefit Oracle by the absolute market share of the plat form and would
    increase competition increasing customers confidence in Oracle as a low cost
    standard platform.

    At the year before lasts, UKOUG conference and many other conferences, I'm
    sure they keynote speaker from oracle made the point that Oracle had
    purchased 36 companies in the previous 36 months.

    They then clarified that purchases could only make sense for them if the
    products being purchased conformed to industry standards and could already
    inter operate with their current infrastructure.

    They stated that they had no intention of, and probably couldn't afford to
    implement a new novel standard of their own, because they would then have
    such a massive pool of software that the standard would have to be applied
    to that it would be economically unviable to implement.

    The question is how much of this bought in technology has been pre-migrated
    to the IA64 platform?

    I'm currently working with forms again, as I understand it Oracle hasn't
    certified SSO with forms 11g yet. (SSO, depending on how you define it has
    grown to a suite of 12 products of differing heritages.) 10g application
    server falls out of support at the end of 2011. Oracle is
    verbally committing to certify SSO with Oracle forms before the end of the
    year, but they aren't committing to which release it will be certified with.

    So we may get the current version of Oracle forms certified (11.1.1.4) or
    the next version of 11g (11.1.1.5) or the first version of 12g, both of
    which are expected before the end of the year.

    In short with the breadth and volatility of Oracles software offering, I
    can't see how they can afford to support minority platforms.

    OTOH, if Oracle is such a significant source of revenue for HP, I'd
    be gob-smacked if Oracle hadn't turned round to HP before this announcement
    and said: 'OK, your platform isn't profitable for us any-more, unless
    you want to subsidise our development from your profits from the sales of
    our products on your platform.....'

    So, consolidation is inevitable, and Itanium was the
    weaker offspring of Intel!

    It's all driven by maths and accountants, go figure!

    They already have!

    D
    On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 9:02 PM, D'Hooge Freek wrote:

    Very true,

    But still, I was surprised by Oracle's move.
    I understand that windows and Redhat no longer support Itanium, they never
    had any real user base. But I always thought that Oracle on HP-UX had a
    reasonable market share.

    Regards,

    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Goulet, Richard
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 20:32
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: RE: desupport - end of an era

    Well, In Oracle's defense:


    http://www.pcworld.com/article/185196/red_hat_to_drop_itanium_support_in_enterprise_linux_6.html
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/18/redhat_rhel6_itanium_dead/

    http://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/224201371/microsoft-follows-red-hat-in-ending-itanium-development.htm;jsessionid=o-DbnYkJ5gxFNd4gxiAtHw**.ecappj01

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9174798/Microsoft_ending_support_for_Itanium


    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA/NA Team Leader


    -----Original Message-----
    From: D'Hooge Freek
    Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:59 PM
    To: Nadeem M. Khan
    Cc: barb.baker_at_gmail.com; oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: RE: desupport - end of an era

    Yep, Oracle has stopped developing for Itanium.
    X-archive-position: 35689
    X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
    Sender: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    Errors-to: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    X-original-sender: Freek.DHooge_at_uptime.be
    Precedence: normal
    Reply-To: Freek.DHooge_at_uptime.be
    List-help:
    List-unsubscribe:
    List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0
    List-Id: oracle-l
    X-List-ID: oracle-l
    List-subscribe:
    List-owner:
    List-post:
    List-archive: <http://www.freelists.org/archives/oracle-l>
    X-list: oracle-l

    http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/346696


    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: nadiem_at_gmail.com On Behalf Of Nadeem M.
    Khan
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 19:41
    To: D'Hooge Freek
    Cc: barb.baker_at_gmail.com; oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: Re: desupport - end of an era

    Does this also mean Oracle won't have any releases for HP-UX ?
    On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:22 PM, D'Hooge Freek
    wrote:
    "The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database
    10.2.0.5"
    10.2.0.5, no 11.1 or 11.2

    OpenVMS was already long abandoned by Oracle
    They just made if official now


    Freek D'Hooge
    Uptime
    Oracle Database Administrator
    email: freek.dhooge_at_uptime.be
    tel +32(0)3 451 23 82
    http://www.uptime.be
    disclaimer: www.uptime.be/disclaimer
    ---
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Barbara Baker
    Sent: donderdag 14 april 2011 18:14
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: desupport - end of an era

    This made me sad.

    Dear Oracle Rdb and Oracle Database on OpenVMS Customers,

    On Tuesday, March 22nd, Oracle announced that we are discontinuing
    all new software
    development on the Intel Itanium microprocessor.
    The terminal releases for OpenVMS on Itanium will be Oracle Database
    10.2.0.5 and Oracle Rdb product family 7.3.

    Obviously I knew it was coming, but seeing it in print still made me sad.
    sigh.

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Nuno Souto at Apr 15, 2011 at 11:58 am

    David Roberts wrote,on my timestamp of 15/04/2011 8:15 AM:
    In short with the breadth and volatility of Oracles software offering, I can't
    see how they can afford to support minority platforms.
    Er..... No one asked them to port the breadth. Just the RDBMS,
    thankingyouverymuch.
    Failing that, they basically destroyed the only single argument that one can
    sensibly build nowadays to buy their RDBMS...
    So, consolidation is inevitable, and Itanium was the weaker offspring of Intel!
    Not for a product whose mainstream strength has always been the portability and
    availability in multiple platforms, thereby not locking anyone into a single
    platform. Take that away and there are much better products than their RDBMS.
    That's a very definite risk they are taking...
    It's all driven by maths and accountants, go figure!

    They already have!
    Hmmmm.... One might contend that before they put maths and accountants in the
    driving seat, it might actually help to put customers there instead?
    But maybe I'm old fashioned that way?

    --
    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    in overcast Sydney, Australia
    dbvision_at_iinet.net.au
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Goulet, Richard at Apr 15, 2011 at 12:55 pm
    Well, Maybe a good read will help us all understand.

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1001854/intel-itaniums-very-sur
    vival-in-doubt

    When in doubt, trust in Google.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA/NA Team Leader

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Nuno Souto
    Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:58 AM
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: Re: desupport - end of an era

    David Roberts wrote,on my timestamp of 15/04/2011 8:15 AM:
    In short with the breadth and volatility of Oracles software offering, I can't
    see how they can afford to support minority platforms.
    Er..... No one asked them to port the breadth. Just the RDBMS,
    thankingyouverymuch.
    Failing that, they basically destroyed the only single argument that one
    can
    sensibly build nowadays to buy their RDBMS...
    So, consolidation is inevitable, and Itanium was the weaker offspring
    of Intel!

    Not for a product whose mainstream strength has always been the
    portability and
    availability in multiple platforms, thereby not locking anyone into a
    single
    platform. Take that away and there are much better products than their
    RDBMS.

    That's a very definite risk they are taking...
    It's all driven by maths and accountants, go figure!

    They already have!
    Hmmmm.... One might contend that before they put maths and accountants
    in the
    driving seat, it might actually help to put customers there instead?
    But maybe I'm old fashioned that way?

    --
    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    in overcast Sydney, Australia
    dbvision_at_iinet.net.au
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Goulet, Richard at Apr 15, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    Barb,


    Why? I started out on VMS MANY years ago, VAX/VMS. When DEC
    died/was acquired by HP we all knew that the days were numbered for both
    the VAX line and VMS as well. So it's just a continuation of the
    consolidation/elimination of platforms and operating systems that is
    really driven by customer demand. Don't forget that a year ago HP
    stopped supporting the HP-3000 line of servers and the MPE operating
    system. Last Oracle release on MPE was 7.2. and that was a year before
    HP announced the end of MPE. That brought such a furor from HP-3000
    professionals, some who had spent their entire career working on that
    platform, that one was worried if HP would survive. And at one time
    HP-UX was Oracle's preferred development platform, today it's most
    likely Solaris, though they seem to release Linux versions very quickly
    too.


    I remember one Oracle or IOUG article which stated that "DBA's
    should be the agents of change". Well here you are, your now an agent
    of change. BTW: We have A VMS server here, no support folks in
    operations, and I can't wait till it hits the dumpster. (Kept me up all
    night Tuesday when it decided to fry a couple of CPU's.)


    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA/NA Team Leader
  • Rich Jesse at Apr 15, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    Dick writes:

    Why? I started out on VMS MANY years ago, VAX/VMS. When DEC
    I started on a DECSystem 20 running TOPS-20. When the VAX 4000 series (I'm
    ashamed I forgot which!) came in, I hated it. Whatdya mean I can't just hit
    TAB for command completion? DCL? Ewww! It's so complex! Of course I
    learned to love it (via the Orange Wall) and see why VMS was superior in
    many many ways.

    Then came Alpha. The CPU came out of the gate at 150Mhz which was blazing
    in the day. A rough ride on the conversion, but that shear speed was worth
    it.

    Only problem was that big companies were writing for Unixes first, then
    trying to port to VMS. One main difference between the two OSs is that
    process creation is relatively quite expensive compared to Unix, but the
    ports never quite got that. It made them slow in comparison and it seems
    that the wonderful OS took quite a beating for that.

    DCL and the OS overall was (is?) very elegant compared to any Unix shell
    scripting. There's true error handling. There's no need to haphazardly
    parse program output that can change depending on when it's run (e.g.
    idiotic date formats from ls) since there was an actual API.
    Bullet-proofing scripts was really quite easy in comparison.
    I remember one Oracle or IOUG article which stated that "DBA's
    should be the agents of change". Well here you are, your now an agent
    of change.
    Yup. While I really miss the power and elegance of DCL, I'll never have to
    deal with running out of NPAGEDYN ever again.
    BTW: We have A VMS server here, no support folks in
    operations, and I can't wait till it hits the dumpster. (Kept me up all
    night Tuesday when it decided to fry a couple of CPU's.)
    The OS didn't cause that CPU to fry...just sayin'. :)

    I finally recycled my Alphastation 500, Sun Ultra 5, and Sun Ultra 10 just a
    few months ago. I'm sure the "geek" at the big box store didn't know what
    they were.

    Rich

    Disclaimer: Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a
    new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they
    called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was
    the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those
    days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a
    quarter, you'd say. Now where was I? Oh yeah. The important thing was that
    I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You
    couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get
    was those big yellow ones...
  • Goulet, Richard at Apr 15, 2011 at 6:14 pm
    Jesse,

    You've got to quit dating yourself like that. People will start
    to think your as old as I am!!;-))

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA/NA Team Leader

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Rich Jesse
    Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 10:13 AM
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Subject: RE: desupport - end of an era

    Dick writes:
    Why? I started out on VMS MANY years ago, VAX/VMS. When DEC
    I started on a DECSystem 20 running TOPS-20. When the VAX 4000 series
    (I'm
    ashamed I forgot which!) came in, I hated it. Whatdya mean I can't just
    hit
    TAB for command completion? DCL? Ewww! It's so complex! Of course I
    learned to love it (via the Orange Wall) and see why VMS was superior in
    many many ways.

    Then came Alpha. The CPU came out of the gate at 150Mhz which was
    blazing
    in the day. A rough ride on the conversion, but that shear speed was
    worth
    it.

    Only problem was that big companies were writing for Unixes first, then
    trying to port to VMS. One main difference between the two OSs is that
    process creation is relatively quite expensive compared to Unix, but the
    ports never quite got that. It made them slow in comparison and it
    seems
    that the wonderful OS took quite a beating for that.

    DCL and the OS overall was (is?) very elegant compared to any Unix shell
    scripting. There's true error handling. There's no need to haphazardly
    parse program output that can change depending on when it's run (e.g.
    idiotic date formats from ls) since there was an actual API.
    Bullet-proofing scripts was really quite easy in comparison.
    I remember one Oracle or IOUG article which stated that "DBA's
    should be the agents of change". Well here you are, your now an agent
    of change.
    Yup. While I really miss the power and elegance of DCL, I'll never have
    to
    deal with running out of NPAGEDYN ever again.
    BTW: We have A VMS server here, no support folks in
    operations, and I can't wait till it hits the dumpster. (Kept me up all
    night Tuesday when it decided to fry a couple of CPU's.)
    The OS didn't cause that CPU to fry...just sayin'. :)

    I finally recycled my Alphastation 500, Sun Ultra 5, and Sun Ultra 10
    just a
    few months ago. I'm sure the "geek" at the big box store didn't know
    what
    they were.

    Rich

    Disclaimer: Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed
    a
    new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what
    they
    called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which
    was
    the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in
    those
    days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a
    quarter, you'd say. Now where was I? Oh yeah. The important thing was
    that
    I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You
    couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could
    get
    was those big yellow ones...
  • Jonathan Intner at Apr 18, 2011 at 2:37 pm
    Hi Rich:

    I started as a true MACRO-20 Assembler Systems Programmer on a
    DECSystems20-60 myself as well. A good friend of mine actually has a KL10
    running today in a virtual machine on his Mac. For those who must have a
    COMND jsys fix, he did "something along the following lines:

    I built an Ubuntu Linux VM (Ubuntu is free and fairly easy to set up, so
    it was a natural choice -- CentOS might be another good choice, as it is
    essentially "RedHat for free".

    Once you have the VM set up (and know how to become superuser):
    . open a terminal window.
    . become superuser.
    . obtain a copy of the Panda distribution containing the KLH20 emulated
    DEC-20 with TOPS20 V7 included.

    You'll basically be unpacking the Panda distribution, which creates a
    "panda-dist" subdirectory, then you'll enter that subdir, make a couple
    of INI file edits, then lauch:

    ./klt20

    Then there are a series of boot commands that follow, after which, TOPS20
    is up and running. All of the rest is in the README (which is a plain
    ASCII

    text file)."

    /jsi (they plural of "jsys" :)

    On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Rich Jesse <
    rjoralist2_at_society.servebeer.com> wrote:
    Dick writes:
    Why? I started out on VMS MANY years ago, VAX/VMS. When DEC
    I started on a DECSystem 20 running TOPS-20. When the VAX 4000 series (I'm
    ashamed I forgot which!) came in, I hated it. Whatdya mean I can't just
    hit
    TAB for command completion? DCL? Ewww! It's so complex! Of course I
    learned to love it (via the Orange Wall) and see why VMS was superior in
    many many ways.

    Then came Alpha. The CPU came out of the gate at 150Mhz which was blazing
    in the day. A rough ride on the conversion, but that shear speed was worth
    it.

    Only problem was that big companies were writing for Unixes first, then
    trying to port to VMS. One main difference between the two OSs is that
    process creation is relatively quite expensive compared to Unix, but the
    ports never quite got that. It made them slow in comparison and it seems
    that the wonderful OS took quite a beating for that.

    DCL and the OS overall was (is?) very elegant compared to any Unix shell
    scripting. There's true error handling. There's no need to haphazardly
    parse program output that can change depending on when it's run (e.g.
    idiotic date formats from ls) since there was an actual API.
    Bullet-proofing scripts was really quite easy in comparison.
    I remember one Oracle or IOUG article which stated that "DBA's
    should be the agents of change". Well here you are, your now an agent
    of change.
    Yup. While I really miss the power and elegance of DCL, I'll never have to
    deal with running out of NPAGEDYN ever again.
    BTW: We have A VMS server here, no support folks in
    operations, and I can't wait till it hits the dumpster. (Kept me up all
    night Tuesday when it decided to fry a couple of CPU's.)
    The OS didn't cause that CPU to fry...just sayin'. :)

    I finally recycled my Alphastation 500, Sun Ultra 5, and Sun Ultra 10 just
    a
    few months ago. I'm sure the "geek" at the big box store didn't know what
    they were.

    Rich

    Disclaimer: Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a
    new heel for m'shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they
    called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was
    the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those
    days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. Gimme five bees for a
    quarter, you'd say. Now where was I? Oh yeah. The important thing was
    that
    I had an onion tied to my belt, which was the style at the time. You
    couldn't get white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could
    get
    was those big yellow ones...

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

Related Discussions

Discussion Navigation
viewthread | post
Discussion Overview
grouporacle-l @
categoriesoracle
postedApr 14, '11 at 4:13p
activeApr 18, '11 at 2:37p
posts12
users8
websiteoracle.com

People

Translate

site design / logo © 2022 Grokbase