FAQ
So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make sure that this author did not write this chapter.

My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware. Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

Cheers all and buyer beware...

RF

Robert G. Freeman
Oracle ACE
Author:
OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
Other various titles out of print now...
Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

Search Discussions

  • Nuno Souto at May 22, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    Robert Freeman wrote,on my timestamp of 22/05/2009 11:11 AM:

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say
    is buyer beware. Get yourself a good mentor to
    go with all these books.
    Good point. I never forgot what Jonathan wrote
    in his signing of my copy of his book:
    "Never believe all you read"
    To do otherwise is basically an act of faith.
    That has no place in technical instruction.
    Cheers all and buyer beware...
    Thanks! Not deeply into acts
    of faith, myself!

    --
    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    in rainy Sydney, Australia
    dbvision_at_iinet.net.au
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Kline.Michael at May 22, 2009 at 2:39 pm
    Everyone knows, well maybe not everyone, the 1970's programmer
    commandments, but perhaps the young 'uns don't or forgot.

    THOU SHALT TAKE NOTHING FOR GRANTED. THOU SHALT CHECK UP AND MAKE #_at_!@
    SURE!

    The other one I've seen before is "If you believe everything you read
    here with out verifying, you deserve what you get."

    Maks

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Nuno Souto
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:41 AM
    Cc: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    Robert Freeman wrote,on my timestamp of 22/05/2009 11:11 AM:

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say
    is buyer beware. Get yourself a good mentor to
    go with all these books.
    Good point. I never forgot what Jonathan wrote
    in his signing of my copy of his book:
    "Never believe all you read"
    To do otherwise is basically an act of faith.
    That has no place in technical instruction.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...
    Thanks! Not deeply into acts
    of faith, myself!

    --
    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    in rainy Sydney, Australia
    dbvision_at_iinet.net.au
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    LEGAL DISCLAIMER

    The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.


    SunTrust is a federally registered service mark of SunTrust Banks, Inc. Live Solid. Bank Solid. is a service mark of SunTrust Banks, Inc.
    [ST:XCL]
  • Thomas Day at May 22, 2009 at 3:03 pm
    I was having a discussion with a junior DBA the other day about whether
    tables and indexes need to be in separate tablespaces and the issue of
    concurrent access came up.

    My position is that Oracle always reads the index and the uses the rowid(s)
    to access the table. There is no issue of concurrent access. However, she
    pulled out the latest and greatest Oracle 11 book and sure enough the author
    repeated the old myth about concurrent access and the need to separate
    indexes and tables.

    How can you fight this? With SANs and logical disks there's no certainty
    that separate tablespaces means that you're using separate read/write
    heads. I'm getting as tired of this argument as I am of the RAID5
    argument. It shouldn't even be a point of discussion.

    Doesn't Oracle have a vested interest in seeing that books about Oracle have
    correct information or does that just make for more opportunities for Oracle
    Consulting?
  • Anonymous at May 22, 2009 at 12:59 pm
    Robert,

    You are correct in everything you say.

    Let me add a "but".

    One of the best ways to learn how to get out of tough situations is to
    put yourself into one.

    Let's face it. Junior DBA's are going to make mistakes. That's what
    senior DBA's are for. To help them get out of a jam by forcing them to
    perform a 12 hour restore. And then showing them what their mistakes
    were.

    You get burned once and you learn "never to do that again".

    I'm not advocating putting something in print that is risky behavior.
    This author needs some strong feedback on that chapter showing them that
    they are suggesting risky behavior that might put a junior DBA in a
    tight situation.

    By the way. Your books are awesome.

    Tom

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 PM
    To: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one
    it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make
    sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I
    pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all
    the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading
    though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does
    not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them
    to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you
    should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very
    junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully
    completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty
    truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they
    have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial
    mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving
    out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware.
    Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise!
    :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Robert Freeman at May 22, 2009 at 1:23 pm
    Tom,

    The greatest learning I've ever experienced was due to the dumbest blunders I've ever done. :-) Or fixing others blunders....
    Blunders are great learning experiences.

    Thanks for your kind words about my books. It's a labor of love 'cuz is sure isn't about the money! :-D

    Cheers all!!

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

    Original Message ----
    From: "Mercadante, Thomas F (LABOR)"
    To: robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com; Oracle-L Freelists
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 6:59:47 AM
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    Robert,

    You are correct in everything you say.

    Let me add a "but".

    One of the best ways to learn how to get out of tough situations is to
    put yourself into one.

    Let's face it. Junior DBA's are going to make mistakes. That's what
    senior DBA's are for. To help them get out of a jam by forcing them to
    perform a 12 hour restore. And then showing them what their mistakes
    were.

    You get burned once and you learn "never to do that again".

    I'm not advocating putting something in print that is risky behavior.
    This author needs some strong feedback on that chapter showing them that
    they are suggesting risky behavior that might put a junior DBA in a
    tight situation.

    By the way. Your books are awesome.

    Tom

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 PM
    To: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one
    it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make
    sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I
    pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all
    the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading
    though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does
    not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them
    to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you
    should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very
    junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully
    completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty
    truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they
    have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial
    mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving
    out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware.
    Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise!
    :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Taylor, Chris David at May 22, 2009 at 1:32 pm
    Heck Sr DBAs make some boneheaded mistakes too....just (hopefully) not
    often! LOL

    Chris Taylor
    Sr. Oracle DBA
    Ingram Barge Company
    Nashville, TN 37205
    Office: 615-517-3355
    Cell: 615-354-4799
    Email: chris.taylor_at_ingrambarge.com


    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential
    and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please
    notify the sender immediately and delete the contents of this message
    without disclosing the contents to anyone, using them for any purpose,
    or storing or copying the information on any medium.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Mercadante, Thomas F
    (LABOR)

    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 8:00 AM
    To: robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com; Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    Robert,

    You are correct in everything you say.

    Let me add a "but".

    One of the best ways to learn how to get out of tough situations is to
    put yourself into one.

    Let's face it. Junior DBA's are going to make mistakes. That's what
    senior DBA's are for. To help them get out of a jam by forcing them to
    perform a 12 hour restore. And then showing them what their mistakes
    were.

    You get burned once and you learn "never to do that again".

    I'm not advocating putting something in print that is risky behavior.
    This author needs some strong feedback on that chapter showing them that
    they are suggesting risky behavior that might put a junior DBA in a
    tight situation.

    By the way. Your books are awesome.

    Tom

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 PM
    To: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one
    it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make
    sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I
    pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all
    the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading
    though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does
    not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them
    to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you
    should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very
    junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully
    completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty
    truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they
    have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial
    mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving
    out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware.
    Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex) Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press) Portable
    DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press) Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle
    Press) Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press) Oracle9i New
    Features (Oracle Press) Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I
    promise!
    :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Rajeev Prabhakar at May 22, 2009 at 2:08 pm
    Hi Robert,

    I full agree with your statement - buyer beware.

    There are all sorts of books in the market. Some have a cookie cutter
    approach, some
    are quite detailed, well researched and provide plenty of real-life
    knowledge to the
    reader and others are somewhere in between.

    IMHO, two things - context and shelf life of the information imparted are so
    critical for
    anything out there (book OR an article). These are particularly important
    nowadays given
    the availability of any kind of information on the internet.

    The *context* can clarify the applicability of the mentioned fixes/solutions
    to the kind of
    environments (prod/qa/test/dev) where the "method" would be relevant. Then
    comes the
    closely intertwined *shelf life* (sell-by-date) aspect. I believe, the onus
    of highlighting
    them lies primarily on the Author.

    That would help everyone (Juniors and the Seniors).

    Best Regards,
    Rajeev
    On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Robert Freeman wrote:


    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Scott Sibert at May 22, 2009 at 3:01 pm
    Is this an Oracle Press book? I hope not -- I tend to trust them more.
    --Scott
    On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Robert Freeman wrote:


    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one it
    is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make sure
    that this author did not write this chapter.
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Jared Still at May 23, 2009 at 3:07 am

    On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Scott Sibert wrote:

    Is this an Oracle Press book? I hope not -- I tend to trust them more.
    --Scott
    One of the worst pieces of Oracle information I've ever
    seen was in an Oracle Press book...

    Addison Wesley and Sam's were two publishers to trust
    once upon a time, don't know if that still holds true, or if
    both are still in business.

    O'Reilly is generally pretty good.

    Apress books that I have seen have all been excellent.

    Jared
  • Robert Freeman at May 23, 2009 at 5:35 pm
    SOME Oracle Press books are just fine!! :-) I tend to think the RMAN and New Features titles are spectacular successes .... of course, I am a totally and completely neutral spectator with respect to those titles!!

    I will say that the book I was referring too was on one of the lists of good publishers you mentioned below... :-)

    :)

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

    From: Jared Still
    To: ssibert_at_gmail.com
    Cc: Oracle-L Freelists
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:07:16 PM
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Scott Sibert wrote:

    Is this an Oracle Press book? I hope not -- I tend to trust them more.
    --Scott

    One of the worst pieces of Oracle information I've ever
    seen was in an Oracle Press book...

    Addison Wesley and Sam's were two publishers to trust
    once upon a time, don't know if that still holds true, or if
    both are still in business.

    O'Reilly is generally pretty good.

    Apress books that I have seen have all been excellent.

    Jared
  • Anonymous at May 22, 2009 at 4:18 pm
    Thomas,



    I agree with your statement about SAN and tablespaces. To me, it is
    getting more and more irrelevant. I depend on the SAN administrator to
    spread the data around on the drives.



    Tom



    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Thomas Day
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:04 AM
    To: Oracle-L
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...



    I was having a discussion with a junior DBA the other day about whether
    tables and indexes need to be in separate tablespaces and the issue of
    concurrent access came up.



    My position is that Oracle always reads the index and the uses the
    rowid(s) to access the table. There is no issue of concurrent access.
    However, she pulled out the latest and greatest Oracle 11 book and sure
    enough the author repeated the old myth about concurrent access and the
    need to separate indexes and tables.



    How can you fight this? With SANs and logical disks there's no
    certainty that separate tablespaces means that you're using separate
    read/write heads. I'm getting as tired of this argument as I am of the
    RAID5 argument. It shouldn't even be a point of discussion.



    Doesn't Oracle have a vested interest in seeing that books about Oracle
    have correct information or does that just make for more opportunities
    for Oracle Consulting?
  • Matthew Zito at May 22, 2009 at 4:30 pm
    Well, to be clear, while Oracle does indeed use the rowids to access the
    actual table, the idea behind separating them onto separate raid/disk
    groups is that the enemy of traditional/old-school storage arrays is
    disk seeks. The idea being that if the index+table are located on the
    same disk, there's seek+index read+seek+table as a linear operation. If
    they're on different disks, you may still have two seeks, but perhaps
    the head will already be over the table on the second disk, and you can
    pipeline more I/Os, as my index disk can already be servicing more index
    read I/Os while the table disk is handling that.



    All that being said, there's so many layers of abstraction today
    already, and more on the way, that trying to optimize like that is
    futile, and almost certainly not worth it. Between volume managers,
    dynamic reallocation and tiering, deduplication, solid-state drives,
    multi-stage array caches, etc., it's impossible to make generalizations
    anymore.



    Thanks,

    Matt



    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Mercadante, Thomas F
    (LABOR)

    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:18 PM
    To: tomdaytwo_at_gmail.com; Oracle-L
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...



    Thomas,



    I agree with your statement about SAN and tablespaces. To me, it is
    getting more and more irrelevant. I depend on the SAN administrator to
    spread the data around on the drives.



    Tom



    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Thomas Day
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:04 AM
    To: Oracle-L
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...



    I was having a discussion with a junior DBA the other day about whether
    tables and indexes need to be in separate tablespaces and the issue of
    concurrent access came up.



    My position is that Oracle always reads the index and the uses the
    rowid(s) to access the table. There is no issue of concurrent access.
    However, she pulled out the latest and greatest Oracle 11 book and sure
    enough the author repeated the old myth about concurrent access and the
    need to separate indexes and tables.



    How can you fight this? With SANs and logical disks there's no
    certainty that separate tablespaces means that you're using separate
    read/write heads. I'm getting as tired of this argument as I am of the
    RAID5 argument. It shouldn't even be a point of discussion.



    Doesn't Oracle have a vested interest in seeing that books about Oracle
    have correct information or does that just make for more opportunities
    for Oracle Consulting?
  • Toon Koppelaars at May 22, 2009 at 4:34 pm

    On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    All that being said, there�s so many layers of abstraction today already,
    and more on the way, that trying to optimize like that is futile, and almost
    certainly not worth it.
    Even more so, if you take into consideration that today's SGA's (the buffer
    cache part of it) can be sized such that most block requests will be LIO's
    anyway (instead of PIO's).

    --
    Toon Koppelaars
    RuleGen BV
    +31-615907269
    Toon.Koppelaars_at_RuleGen.com
    www.RuleGen.com
    TheHelsinkiDeclaration.blogspot.com

    (co)Author: "Applied Mathematics for Database Professionals"
    www.RuleGen.com/pls/apex/f?p=14265:13

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Matthew Zito at May 22, 2009 at 4:36 pm
    *Maybe* - I still see a lot of boxes with OLTP workloads and big SGAs,
    that still require pretty high throughput to disk. Obviously, YMMV.



    And buffer cache only helps you for reads, of course, so there's still
    folks who want to optimize their storage to make sure data can be
    written quickly.



    Matt



    From: Toon Koppelaars
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:34 PM
    To: Matthew Zito
    Cc: Thomas.Mercadante_at_labor.state.ny.us; tomdaytwo_at_gmail.com; Oracle-L
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...





    On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    All that being said, there's so many layers of abstraction today
    already, and more on the way, that trying to optimize like that is
    futile, and almost certainly not worth it.

    Even more so, if you take into consideration that today's SGA's (the
    buffer cache part of it) can be sized such that most block requests will
    be LIO's anyway (instead of PIO's).

    --
    Toon Koppelaars
    RuleGen BV
    +31-615907269
    Toon.Koppelaars_at_RuleGen.com
    www.RuleGen.com
    TheHelsinkiDeclaration.blogspot.com

    (co)Author: "Applied Mathematics for Database Professionals"
    www.RuleGen.com/pls/apex/f?p=14265:13

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Goulet, Richard at May 22, 2009 at 4:45 pm
    Robert,

    Some old myths will continue into eternity, this probably being
    one of them. Now I'll admit to liking indexes in a different tablespace
    from the data, but for a whole other reason, that being maintenance and
    sizing (I've become a real fanatic at locally managed uniform extent
    tablespaces). But on the other hand, even with SAN's, disk caches,
    large SGA's etc... A sysadmin can create a reason for following the old
    myths. I just had a recent experience of that with a san that's just
    mirrored, not stripped. Performance was poor because one drive set was
    being pounded. I moved one tablespace containing only table data to
    another drive & things are now flying.

    BTW: I don't write books. Principally because I don't like
    writing and secondly because I make mistakes myself. And I sure would
    not want some young poor soul following me on some of those blunders.

    Humm, maybe that's a book that should be written, a "How to mess
    up Oracle in one easy step"!!!

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    PAREXEL International

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 PM
    To: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one
    it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make
    sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I
    pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all
    the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading
    though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does
    not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them
    to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you
    should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very
    junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully
    completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty
    truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they
    have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial
    mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving
    out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware.
    Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise!
    :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Kenneth Naim at May 22, 2009 at 5:11 pm
    The next version of the book should indicate that table and index data be
    separated onto different solid state drives or ram modules when in memory :)
    Seriously these conversations give me such a headache, and usually I am able
    to point to the source being out of date, like a website that hasn't been
    updated since 1997. But this is made even more difficult with current
    sources (books/site/articles etc.) perpetuating these myths.

    On the other hand if everyone learned the proper way to design, develop,
    test, tune and run their systems, the best dba's/developers among us would
    be common and our rate/salaries would reflect that.

    Disclaimer: This post needs to be read with a level of sarcasm appropriate
    for a Friday before a holiday weekend.

    Ken

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Goulet, Richard
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:46 PM
    To: robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com; Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    Robert,

    Some old myths will continue into eternity, this probably being
    one of them. Now I'll admit to liking indexes in a different tablespace
    from the data, but for a whole other reason, that being maintenance and
    sizing (I've become a real fanatic at locally managed uniform extent
    tablespaces). But on the other hand, even with SAN's, disk caches,
    large SGA's etc... A sysadmin can create a reason for following the old
    myths. I just had a recent experience of that with a san that's just
    mirrored, not stripped. Performance was poor because one drive set was
    being pounded. I moved one tablespace containing only table data to
    another drive & things are now flying.

    BTW: I don't write books. Principally because I don't like
    writing and secondly because I make mistakes myself. And I sure would
    not want some young poor soul following me on some of those blunders.

    Humm, maybe that's a book that should be written, a "How to mess
    up Oracle in one easy step"!!!

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    PAREXEL International

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 PM
    To: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one
    it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make
    sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I
    pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all
    the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading
    though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does
    not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them
    to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you
    should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very
    junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully
    completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty
    truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they
    have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial
    mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving
    out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware.
    Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise!
    :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Goulet, Richard at May 22, 2009 at 5:25 pm
    Rodd,

    Not a bad idea, course it could also recommend that we go back
    to the very old practice of putting everything in the "system
    partition". That's the predecessor to tablespaces for those of you who
    don't go back to at least V4.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    PAREXEL International

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Rodd Holman
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:54 PM
    To: Goulet, Richard
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    First line:
    Open a sqlplus session. Login using sys as sysdba.
    The next line should be something with alter or drop in the text just to
    make it fun...;-)

    Goulet, Richard wrote:
    ...
    Humm, maybe that's a book that should be written, a "How to mess
    up Oracle in one easy step"!!!


    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    PAREXEL International
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • William Wagman at May 22, 2009 at 8:57 pm
    Greetings,

    I remember Jonathan Lewis' test validating the claim that Oracle has anti-Microsoft code built in by showing it is possible to build an index named Microsoft that Oracle would not use. He was simply taking advantage of the way that oracle chooses to use indexes but it certainly was an entertaining and enlightening demonstration.

    Bill Wagman
    Univ. of California at Davis
    IET Campus Data Center
    wjwagman_at_ucdavis.edu
    (530) 754-6208
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:48 AM
    To: tomdaytwo_at_gmail.com; Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    To me... I think the truthful answer to a large majority of things is "It depends". We have experiences in our lives that we did X and X made things better... so all of a sudden X becomes the defacto way of doing things. We read X in a book is fact, and perhaps we are a bit too trusting. Perhaps X is a new technology and really nobody knows much of anything about X except what we learn by trial and occasional error. It's all an iterative process, fraught with error....

    Be it separating tables and indexes, or whatever... I'm sure one could come up with case studies that would validate separating them, or storing them together.... It all depends.

    I know I get a ton of heartburn out of the New Features titles in particular... new stuff, limited documentation or experience with it, short writing time frames..... I hate it when six months or a year later I start seeing presentations on this topic or that topic that add so much more detail that I wish I'd known at the time.

    Then again, I love it when I give a new features presentation and share one new feature and half the room is scribbling like mad because THAT feature will better their lives.

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

    From: Thomas Day
    To: Oracle-L
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:03:58 AM
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...
    I was having a discussion with a junior DBA the other day about whether tables and indexes need to be in separate tablespaces and the issue of concurrent access came up.

    My position is that Oracle always reads the index and the uses the rowid(s) to access the table. There is no issue of concurrent access. However, she pulled out the latest and greatest Oracle 11 book and sure enough the author repeated the old myth about concurrent access and the need to separate indexes and tables.

    How can you fight this? With SANs and logical disks there's no certainty that separate tablespaces means that you're using separate read/write heads. I'm getting as tired of this argument as I am of the RAID5 argument. It shouldn't even be a point of discussion.

    Doesn't Oracle have a vested interest in seeing that books about Oracle have correct information or does that just make for more opportunities for Oracle Consulting?
  • Robert Freeman at May 23, 2009 at 5:49 pm
    I'd loved to have seen that presentation!! :)

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

    ________________________________
    From: William Wagman
    To: "robertgfreeman_at_yahoo.com"; "tomdaytwo@gmail.com"; Oracle-L Freelists
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 2:57:32 PM
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    Greetings,

    I remember Jonathan Lewis’ test validating the claim that
    Oracle has anti-Microsoft code built in by showing it is possible to build an
    index named Microsoft that Oracle would not use. He was simply taking advantage
    of the way that oracle chooses to use indexes but it certainly was an entertaining
    and enlightening demonstration.

    Bill Wagman
    Univ. of California at Davis
    IET Campus Data Center
    wjwagman_at_ucdavis.edu
    (530) 754-6208
    From:oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On
    Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:48 AM
    To: tomdaytwo_at_gmail.com; Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    To me... I
    think the truthful answer to a large majority of things is "It
    depends". We have experiences in our lives that we did X and X made things
    better... so all of a sudden X becomes the defacto way of doing things. We read
    X in a book is fact, and perhaps we are a bit too trusting. Perhaps X is a new
    technology and really nobody knows much of anything about X except what we
    learn by trial and occasional error. It's all an iterative process, fraught
    with error....

    Be it separating tables and indexes, or whatever... I'm sure one could come up
    with case studies that would validate separating them, or storing them
    together.... It all depends.

    I know I get a ton of heartburn out of the New Features titles in particular...
    new stuff, limited documentation or experience with it, short writing time
    frames..... I hate it when six months or a year later I start seeing
    presentations on this topic or that topic that add so much more detail that I
    wish I'd known at the time.

    Then again, I love it when I give a new features presentation and share one new
    feature and half the room is scribbling like mad because THAT feature will
    better their lives.

    Robert G.
    Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

    ________________________________

    From:Thomas Day
    To: Oracle-L
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:03:58 AM
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...
    I was having a discussion with a junior DBA the other day
    about whether tables and indexes need to be in separate tablespaces and
    the issue of concurrent access came up.

    My position is that Oracle always reads the index and the
    uses the rowid(s) to access the table. There is no issue of concurrent
    access. However, she pulled out the latest and greatest Oracle 11 book
    and sure enough the author repeated the old myth about concurrent access and
    the need to separate indexes and tables.

    How can you fight this? With SANs and logical disks
    there's no certainty that separate tablespaces means that you're using separate
    read/write heads. I'm getting as tired of this argument as I am of the
    RAID5 argument. It shouldn't even be a point of discussion.

    Doesn't Oracle have a vested interest in seeing that books
    about Oracle have correct information or does that just make for more
    opportunities for Oracle Consulting?
  • Amar Kumar Padhi at May 22, 2009 at 11:51 pm
    I have always advocated my juniors to not mug up books and try to rationalize facts. I encourage frequent technical discussions and being connected to forums like this one. I fear the silent DBA/developer who would google and run commands and then defend himself because the published source is at fault.

    I recollect one incident related to RAID selection for disk storage. Different people produced different published sources that had different conclusion resulting in utter confusion. That was long time back though.

    Thanks!
    Amar
    Www.amar-Padhi.com

    -original message-
    Oracle Book Mal-practice...
    From: "Robert Freeman"
    Date: 22-05-2009 05:13

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware. Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study Guide (Sybex)
    Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Portable DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press)
    Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press)
    Oracle9i New Features (Oracle Press)
    Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member in
    good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be breaking
    the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I promise! :-)
    http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
  • Bobak, Mark at May 26, 2009 at 2:07 pm
    But Peter, if it's fast now, after no reorg for two years, just think how much faster your application would go if you re-instituted index reorgs! :-)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Schauss, R. Peter (IT Solutions)
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:07 PM
    To: Oracle L
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    FWIW, I have a heavily used 36gb SQL Server database on which I quietly
    stopped reorganizing the indexes more than two years ago. I have had no
    performance complaints on this database which could be traced back to
    the database. If you read the SQL Server list on Lazy DBA everyone
    recommends periodic reorganizing of indexes.

    Peter Schauss

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 3:21 PM
    To: rjoralist_at_society.servebeer.com; Oracle L
    Subject: Re: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    Interesting thoughts on SQL Server... I'm starting a bit of a surface
    self-education on SQL Server. It's interesting how I'm hearing things
    about it that sound so similar to the Oracle 7 days....Give 'em 10 more
    years and maybe the "expert" maturity will be such that they will have
    the same "Old" days discussions that we do.

    Cheers!!

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex) Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press) Portable
    DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press) Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle
    Press) Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press) Oracle9i New
    Features (Oracle Press) Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I
    promise! :-) http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf

    Original Message ----
    From: Rich Jesse
    To: Oracle L
    Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:42:42 PM
    Subject: RE: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    In a way, the "malpractice" in those kinds of books helps me, at least
    for
    Oracle, which I've worked with for 12+ years now. Like the idea of
    rebuilding indexes, which came up recently. I believe from past
    experience
    and research that b-tree index rebuilding in Oracle is usually
    unnecessary.
    But when tasked with "It'll save space, so why not?", I chose to bolster
    my
    belief using other trusted sources (this list's and Tom Kyte's many
    postings
    among them) and use this information to back my assertion. The
    "malpractice" of index rebuilding refreshed my understanding of Oracle's
    b-tree indexes. This is a good thing for me as a "solo" DBA.

    OTOH, my <2yrs experience with SQueaL Server is leading me to find all
    sorts
    of questionable information as to how to properly maintain that fine
    excuse
    for an enterprise database. For example, based on information given on
    several websites (including documentation), it seems that SS suffers
    from
    some sort of entropy where time and data contribute to poor performance,
    index page corruption, and fragmentation within the table structure
    causing
    disk thrashing, but all only if indexes are not regularly rebuilt or at
    least reorg'd. Really? Can someone show me how these theorems were
    proven?

    The difference between these is that I consider myself to be a Sr-level
    in
    Oracle and only a Jr in SS land. But that doesn't mean I should blindly
    accept any and all advice given for either. It just makes it more
    difficult
    to catch all of the BS as a Jr. And I've missed a few well-flung pieces
    so
    far...

    My $.02,
    Rich

    Disclaimer: I like Fridays.
    The next version of the book should indicate that table and index data be
    separated onto different solid state drives or ram modules when in memory :)
    Seriously these conversations give me such a headache, and usually I am able
    to point to the source being out of date, like a website that hasn't been
    updated since 1997. But this is made even more difficult with current
    sources (books/site/articles etc.) perpetuating these myths.

    On the other hand if everyone learned the proper way to design, develop,
    test, tune and run their systems, the best dba's/developers among us would
    be common and our rate/salaries would reflect that.
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Powell, Mark D at May 28, 2009 at 6:58 pm
    It is one thing to make a mistake and another to write something without
    giving proper thought to related facts which could impact someone
    following the information given. Mistakes and oversights are possible.
    To constitute mal-practice I think the author would have to include
    material he or she knew was wrong or that put an inexperienced user at
    risk for a purpose such as meeting a publication requirement. That is a
    reason like there has to be a chapter on such and such.

    Mark D Powell --
    Phone (313) 592-5148

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Robert Freeman
    Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 9:11 PM
    To: Oracle-L Freelists
    Subject: Oracle Book Mal-practice...

    So, I'm reading a particular book tonight. I don't want to say which one
    it is at the moment because I know one of the authors and I want to make
    sure that this author did not write this chapter.

    My question is, what constitutes Oracle Book Writing mal-practice (and I
    pray I've never committed it). Certainly mistakes crop up in books all
    the time, I'm as guilty as any writer of this. This chapter I'm reading
    though, in an effort to get the reader to doing something quickly, does
    not lay any foundation, skips critical steps and actually prompts them
    to do what I consider some very dangerous things.

    It would be one thing if the book said, "Look, this is not the way you
    should do this in production." but it does not. In this chapter, a very
    junior DBA might well follow the instructions and, having successfully
    completed everything, think that they are done. The truth, a nasty
    truth, is that all they have done is taken some very big risks and they
    have some nasty gottya's coming down the pike.

    In my mind, this isn't a simple mistake. This isn't an editorial
    mis-step. This is someone trying to make something seem easy and leaving
    out some very sailient instructions without any warning.

    Very bothersome.... For your Junior DBA's all I can say is buyer beware.
    Get yourself a good mentor to go with all these books.

    Cheers all and buyer beware...

    RF

    Robert G. Freeman
    Oracle ACE
    Author:
    OCP: Oracle Database 11g Administrator Certified Professional Study
    Guide (Sybex) Oracle Database 11g New Features (Oracle Press) Portable
    DBA: Oracle (Oracle Press) Oracle Database 10g New Features (Oracle
    Press) Oracle9i RMAN Backup and Recovery (Oracle Press) Oracle9i New
    Features (Oracle Press) Other various titles out of print now...
    Blog: http://robertgfreeman.blogspot.com
    The LDS Church is looking for DBA's. You do have to be a Church member
    in good standing. A lot of kind people write me, concerned I may be
    breaking the law by saying you have to be a Church member. It's legal I
    promise! :-) http://pages.sssnet.com/messndal/church/parachurch.pdf
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

Related Discussions

People

Translate

site design / logo © 2022 Grokbase