FAQ
For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for
Database Files as well in RAC),
see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW
devices in Release 12G "

Hemant K Chitale
http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com

"A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a 'Yes'
merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
Mohandas Gandhi Quotes
: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html

Search Discussions

  • Dba1 mcc at Aug 7, 2008 at 5:30 pm
    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    On Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale wrote:
    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for
    Database Files as well in RAC),
    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW
    devices in Release 12G "

    Hemant K Chitale
    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com

    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a
    'Yes'
    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."
    Mohandas Gandhi Quotes
    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html
  • Matthew Zito at Aug 7, 2008 at 6:56 pm
    We were discussing this over here, and the big question we came up with
    is:



    "Does this mean that simply raw devices a la old school Red Hat
    (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or that all character/non-buffered IO
    devices are desupported (a la /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or /dev/sda2 with
    O_DIRECT)?"



    If the former, it's a non-issue for most environments, if it's the
    latter, it opens up a host of questions around what will be supported.
    Effectively, it requires that people have a clustered filesystem to use,
    or somehow Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can put OCR and voting
    internally and making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.



    Matt



    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of dba1 mcc
    Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:30 PM
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    On Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale wrote:

    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for

    Database Files as well in RAC),

    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW

    devices in Release 12G "







    Hemant K Chitale

    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com



    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a

    'Yes'

    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."

    Mohandas Gandhi
    Quotes

    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html
  • Bradd Piontek at Aug 7, 2008 at 7:01 pm
    I would think storing the OCR and voting disks in ASM would be an issue, as
    ASM is just another cluster resource and is generally brought up by ASM. My
    guess is they'll be pushing the use of OCFS/OCFS2 a bit more.

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd
    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    We were discussing this over here, and the big question we came up with
    is:



    "Does this mean that simply raw devices a la old school Red Hat
    (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or that all character/non-buffered IO
    devices are desupported (a la /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or /dev/sda2 with
    O_DIRECT)?"


    If the former, it's a non-issue for most environments, if it's the latter,
    it opens up a host of questions around what will be supported. Effectively,
    it requires that people have a clustered filesystem to use, or somehow
    Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can put OCR and voting internally and
    making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.



    Matt


    ------------------------------

    *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
    oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *dba1 mcc
    *Sent:* Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:30 PM
    *To:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    *Subject:* Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    --- On *Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale * wrote:

    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for

    Database Files as well in RAC),

    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW

    devices in Release 12G "







    Hemant K Chitale
    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com



    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a

    'Yes'

    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."

    Mohandas Gandhi

    Quotes

    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Matthew Zito at Aug 7, 2008 at 7:10 pm
    Right, I understand that's the current mechanism - they could
    potentially make ASM itself the underlying storage technology, and
    remove its dependency on CRS, or they could push clustered file systems.
    The issue with the CFS route, as far as I can see it, is that OCFS2 is
    not on all platforms - and certainly Oracle is trying to reduce the
    number of third-party products needed in the traditional database
    environment, so why would they want to encourage people to have to go
    get a third-party CFS on platforms without OCFS2 (i.e. HP-UX, AIX,
    etc.)?



    Or, like I said, this could be just getting rid of red hat-style bound
    raw devices, in which case this is a big snoozer of an issue.



    Thanks,

    Matt



    From: Bradd Piontek
    Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 3:02 PM
    To: Matthew Zito
    Cc: mccdba1_at_yahoo.com; oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    I would think storing the OCR and voting disks in ASM would be an issue,
    as ASM is just another cluster resource and is generally brought up by
    ASM. My guess is they'll be pushing the use of OCFS/OCFS2 a bit more.

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    We were discussing this over here, and the big question we came up with
    is:



    "Does this mean that simply raw devices a la old school Red Hat
    (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or that all character/non-buffered IO
    devices are desupported (a la /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or /dev/sda2 with
    O_DIRECT)?"



    If the former, it's a non-issue for most environments, if it's the
    latter, it opens up a host of questions around what will be supported.
    Effectively, it requires that people have a clustered filesystem to use,
    or somehow Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can put OCR and voting
    internally and making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.



    Matt



    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of dba1 mcc
    Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:30 PM
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    On Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale wrote:

    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for





    Database Files as well in RAC),





    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW





    devices in Release 12G "




















    Hemant K Chitale





    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com










    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a





    'Yes'





    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."





    Mohandas Gandhi
    Quotes





    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html
  • Jason arneil at Aug 7, 2008 at 7:24 pm
    Oh, I don't know about pushing OCFS/OCFS2, I think ASM is where the big push
    from oracle is.

    You are right, about this chicken and egg syndrome, but 12g is a LONG way
    out.

    We are still waiting 11gR2, right?

    jason.

    --
    http://jarneil.wordpress.com
    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Bradd Piontek wrote:

    I would think storing the OCR and voting disks in ASM would be an issue, as
    ASM is just another cluster resource and is generally brought up by ASM. My
    guess is they'll be pushing the use of OCFS/OCFS2 a bit more.

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd


    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    We were discussing this over here, and the big question we came up with
    is:



    "Does this mean that simply raw devices a la old school Red Hat
    (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or that all character/non-buffered IO
    devices are desupported (a la /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or /dev/sda2 with
    O_DIRECT)?"



    If the former, it's a non-issue for most environments, if it's the latter,
    it opens up a host of questions around what will be supported. Effectively,
    it requires that people have a clustered filesystem to use, or somehow
    Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can put OCR and voting internally and
    making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.



    Matt


    ------------------------------

    *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
    oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *dba1 mcc
    *Sent:* Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:30 PM
    *To:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    *Subject:* Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    --- On *Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale * wrote:

    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for

    Database Files as well in RAC),

    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW

    devices in Release 12G "







    Hemant K Chitale
    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com



    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a

    'Yes'

    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."

    Mohandas Gandhi

    Quotes

    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Bradd Piontek at Aug 7, 2008 at 7:56 pm
    is it a long way out? I was having the discussion with a team mate this
    morning after I read the article on metalink. If it is such a small thing,
    why announce it so far out? Is Oracle prepping customers well in advance of
    the desupport (couldn't find any other 12g references on a quick metalink
    search) to give them time to prepare for this?

    Is 11gR2 going to be announced at OOW this year?

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd
    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, jason arneil wrote:

    Oh, I don't know about pushing OCFS/OCFS2, I think ASM is where the big
    push from oracle is.

    You are right, about this chicken and egg syndrome, but 12g is a LONG way
    out.

    We are still waiting 11gR2, right?

    jason.

    --
    http://jarneil.wordpress.com

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Bradd Piontek wrote:

    I would think storing the OCR and voting disks in ASM would be an issue,
    as ASM is just another cluster resource and is generally brought up by ASM.
    My guess is they'll be pushing the use of OCFS/OCFS2 a bit more.

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd


    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    We were discussing this over here, and the big question we came up with
    is:



    "Does this mean that simply raw devices a la old school Red Hat
    (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or that all character/non-buffered IO
    devices are desupported (a la /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or /dev/sda2 with
    O_DIRECT)?"


    If the former, it's a non-issue for most environments, if it's the
    latter, it opens up a host of questions around what will be supported.
    Effectively, it requires that people have a clustered filesystem to use, or
    somehow Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can put OCR and voting
    internally and making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.



    Matt


    ------------------------------

    *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
    oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *dba1 mcc
    *Sent:* Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:30 PM
    *To:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    *Subject:* Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    --- On *Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale * wrote:

    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for

    Database Files as well in RAC),

    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW

    devices in Release 12G "







    Hemant K Chitale
    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com



    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a

    'Yes'

    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."

    Mohandas Gandhi

    Quotes

    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Andrew Kerber at Aug 7, 2008 at 8:03 pm
    We are discussing it also. The note seems to say that the OCR and Votedisk
    are both going to be supported within ASM. I will really be interested to
    see if that is actually the case.
    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Bradd Piontek wrote:

    is it a long way out? I was having the discussion with a team mate this
    morning after I read the article on metalink. If it is such a small thing,
    why announce it so far out? Is Oracle prepping customers well in advance of
    the desupport (couldn't find any other 12g references on a quick metalink
    search) to give them time to prepare for this?

    Is 11gR2 going to be announced at OOW this year?

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, jason arneil wrote:

    Oh, I don't know about pushing OCFS/OCFS2, I think ASM is where the big
    push from oracle is.

    You are right, about this chicken and egg syndrome, but 12g is a LONG way
    out.

    We are still waiting 11gR2, right?

    jason.

    --
    http://jarneil.wordpress.com

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Bradd Piontek wrote:

    I would think storing the OCR and voting disks in ASM would be an issue,
    as ASM is just another cluster resource and is generally brought up by ASM.
    My guess is they'll be pushing the use of OCFS/OCFS2 a bit more.

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd


    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Matthew Zito wrote:

    We were discussing this over here, and the big question we came up
    with is:



    "Does this mean that simply raw devices a la old school Red Hat
    (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or that all character/non-buffered IO
    devices are desupported (a la /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or /dev/sda2 with
    O_DIRECT)?"


    If the former, it's a non-issue for most environments, if it's the
    latter, it opens up a host of questions around what will be supported.
    Effectively, it requires that people have a clustered filesystem to use, or
    somehow Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can put OCR and voting
    internally and making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.



    Matt


    ------------------------------

    *From:* oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org [mailto:
    oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *dba1 mcc
    *Sent:* Thursday, August 07, 2008 1:30 PM
    *To:* oracle-l_at_freelists.org; hkchital_at_singnet.com.sg
    *Subject:* Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw device.



    --- On *Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K Chitale * wrote:

    From: Hemant K Chitale
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM

    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for

    Database Files as well in RAC),

    see MetaLink Note#578455.1 "Announcement of De-Support of RAW

    devices in Release 12G "







    Hemant K Chitale
    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com



    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a

    'Yes'

    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."

    Mohandas Gandhi

    Quotes

    : http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html



    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    --
    Andrew W. Kerber

    'If at first you dont succeed, dont take up skydiving.'

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Dan Norris at Aug 7, 2008 at 8:18 pm
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

    I'm expecting 11g R2's official customer release to be near OOW 2009,
    but there's nothing official on that yet. I know the beta program is
    just getting started now, so seems unlikely that it'll be released much
    sooner than fall 2009.
    As for raw device support, I have heard the same rumors of raw support
    being removed or at least deprecated by v12g, but as you've found out,
    there's nothing official on that yet either. There have been rumors of
    ASM supporting OCR and Voting disks in 11g R2, but I haven't seen that
    yet either, so I can't say for sure until we start seeing some of the
    new features lists leaking out.
    I don't see raw device support as a big issue as I don't believe that
    it would affect that many customers (if you except OCR and Voting
    disks). It's been a long time since I've seen an Oracle database
    running with data files directly on RAW.
    Dan
    Andrew Kerber wrote:

    We are discussing it also.  The note seems to say that
    the OCR and Votedisk are both going to be supported within ASM.  I will
    really be interested to see if that is actually the case.

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Bradd
    Piontek wrote:

    is it a long way out? I was having the discussion
    with a team mate this morning after I read the article on metalink. If
    it is such a small thing, why announce it so far out? Is Oracle
    prepping customers well in advance of the desupport (couldn't find any
    other 12g references on a quick metalink search) to give them time to
    prepare for this?

    Is 11gR2 going to be announced at OOW this year?

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 2:24 PM, jason
    arneil wrote:

    Oh, I don't know about pushing OCFS/OCFS2, I think
    ASM is where the big push from oracle is.

    You are right, about this chicken and egg syndrome, but 12g is a LONG
    way out.

    We are still waiting 11gR2, right?

    jason.

    --
    http://jarneil.wordpress.com

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Bradd
    Piontek wrote:

    I would think storing the OCR and voting disks
    in ASM would be an issue, as ASM is just another cluster resource and
    is generally brought up by ASM. My guess is they'll be pushing the use
    of OCFS/OCFS2 a bit more.

    Bradd Piontek
    Oracle Blog: http://piontekdd.blogspot.com
    Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/piontekdd

    On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 1:56 PM,
    Matthew Zito wrote:

    We were
    discussing this over here, and the
    big question we came up with is:

    "Does this
    mean that simply raw
    devices a la old school Red Hat (/dev/raw/raw1) are desupported, or
    that all
    character/non-buffered IO devices are desupported (a la
    /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s2 or
    /dev/sda2 with O_DIRECT)?"

    If the
    former, it's a non-issue for most
    environments, if it's the latter, it opens up a host of questions
    around
    what will be supported.  Effectively, it requires that people have a
    clustered
    filesystem to use, or somehow Oracle jobbies up ASM such that you can
    put OCR
    and voting internally and making ASM a dependency for CRS to run.

    Matt


    From:
    oracle-l-bounce@freelists.org

    On Behalf Of dba1
    mcc
    Sent:
    Thursday, August 07, 2008
    1:30 PM
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org;
    hkchital@singnet.com.sg
    Subject: Re:
    12G Desupport for Raw
    Devices



    Redhat RHEL 6 will also NOT support raw
    device.



    --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Hemant K
    Chitale wrote:
    From:
    Hemant K Chitale <hkchital@singnet.com.sg>
    Subject: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices
    To: oracle-l@freelists.org
    Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 11:02 AM
    For those using Raw Devices (wether for Redo Logs in non-RAC or for

    Database Files as well in RAC),

    see MetaLink Note#578455.1   "Announcement of De-Support of RAW

    devices in Release 12G "

    Hemant K Chitale

    http://hemantoracledba.blogspot.com

    "A 'No' uttered from the deepest conviction is better than a

    'Yes'

    merely uttered to please, or worse, to avoid trouble."

    Mohandas Gandhi
    Quotes

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/mohandas_gandhi.html

    --

    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    --
    Andrew W. Kerber

    'If at first you dont succeed, dont take up skydiving.'

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Greg Rahn at Aug 8, 2008 at 9:14 am
    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced. My guess is that 11gR2 will provide something.

    Do many people use raw devices for data files? e.g. data file is
    actually a raw volume
    Most of the customers that I have worked with have moved from raw to ASM.
  • Dannorris_at_dannorris.com at Aug 8, 2008 at 1:51 pm

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced.
    As you mentioned, ASM is already introduced and I believe it is a fair
    alternative. Even with ASM as an alternative, I think 11gR2 will be an
    interesting release if the rumors are true.

    Dan
  • Remigiusz Sokolowski at Aug 11, 2008 at 11:37 am

    dannorris_at_dannorris.com pisze:

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced.
    As you mentioned, ASM is already introduced and I believe it is a fair
    alternative. Even with ASM as an alternative, I think 11gR2 will be an
    interesting release if the rumors are true.
    any sources/links about those rumors?

    Regards
    Remigiusz

    --

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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    pos : DBA at DUSB
    addr : Nordea Bank Polska SA, Luzycka 6A Street, 81-537 Gdynia, Poland
    phone: +48 58 667 17 43

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  • Bobak, Mark at Aug 8, 2008 at 3:49 pm
    We were historically a shop that used raw, almost everywhere, going back to at least 7.0 days. We have begun moving towards ASM, as we move to 10g/11g, but we still have much raw, mostly on 9iR2 databases, and even a couple of 8.1.7 stragglers.....

    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Greg Rahn
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:14 AM
    To: ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced. My guess is that 11gR2 will provide something.

    Do many people use raw devices for data files? e.g. data file is
    actually a raw volume
    Most of the customers that I have worked with have moved from raw to ASM.

    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Bobak, Mark at Aug 8, 2008 at 3:55 pm
    And I forgot the second part of my posting.....so, as people move from RAW to ASM, they're still going to use RAW volumes to allocate storage to ASM, right? Seems to me it would be pretty silly to put filesystems on all your storage, just so you can hand it over to ASM.

    So, seems to me, Oracle will still deal w/ raw, albeit perhaps only through the ASM path....?

    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Bobak, Mark
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:50 AM
    To: greg_at_structureddata.org; ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    We were historically a shop that used raw, almost everywhere, going back to at least 7.0 days. We have begun moving towards ASM, as we move to 10g/11g, but we still have much raw, mostly on 9iR2 databases, and even a couple of 8.1.7 stragglers.....

    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Greg Rahn
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:14 AM
    To: ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced. My guess is that 11gR2 will provide something.

    Do many people use raw devices for data files? e.g. data file is
    actually a raw volume
    Most of the customers that I have worked with have moved from raw to ASM.

    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Vladimir Barac at Aug 9, 2008 at 6:08 am
    Block devices are supported from 10.2.0.2 - at least in Linux.

    We have 10.2.0.4 on ASM with block devices - works without any problem so far.

    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org on behalf of Bobak, Mark
    Sent: Fri 8/8/2008 6:55 PM
    To: Bobak, Mark; greg_at_structureddata.org; ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    And I forgot the second part of my posting.....so, as people move from RAW to ASM, they're still going to use RAW volumes to allocate storage to ASM, right? Seems to me it would be pretty silly to put filesystems on all your storage, just so you can hand it over to ASM.

    So, seems to me, Oracle will still deal w/ raw, albeit perhaps only through the ASM path....?

    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Bobak, Mark
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:50 AM
    To: greg_at_structureddata.org; ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    We were historically a shop that used raw, almost everywhere, going back to at least 7.0 days. We have begun moving towards ASM, as we move to 10g/11g, but we still have much raw, mostly on 9iR2 databases, and even a couple of 8.1.7 stragglers.....

    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Greg Rahn
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:14 AM
    To: ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced. My guess is that 11gR2 will provide something.

    Do many people use raw devices for data files? e.g. data file is
    actually a raw volume
    Most of the customers that I have worked with have moved from raw to ASM.

    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org <http://structureddata.org/>
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
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    This email has been scanned by the External Email Security System.

    This e-mail message and any attachments to it are for the sole use of the intended recipients and may contain confidential and privileged information. This e-mail message and any attachments are the property of Yusuf A. Alghanim & Sons w.l.l. or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates (“Alghanim Industries”). Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution of this e-mail message or its attachments is prohibited. Any opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of Alghanim Industries. If you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message and any attachments.

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  • Stefan Knecht at Aug 9, 2008 at 8:11 am
    But be careful -- see ML Note 601591.1

    " The Block device discovery has been available by mistake in previous
    versions due to a bug and shouldn't be
    available on other platforms than Linux."

    That got changed in 10.2.0.4 on most unix platforms. You never know - it
    caught me off guard too :)

    Stefan
    **
    On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Vladimir Barac wrote:

    Block devices are supported from 10.2.0.2 - at least in Linux.

    We have 10.2.0.4 on ASM with block devices - works without any problem so
    far.

    ________________________________

    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org on behalf of Bobak, Mark
    Sent: Fri 8/8/2008 6:55 PM
    To: Bobak, Mark; greg_at_structureddata.org; ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices



    And I forgot the second part of my posting.....so, as people move from RAW
    to ASM, they're still going to use RAW volumes to allocate storage to ASM,
    right? Seems to me it would be pretty silly to put filesystems on all your
    storage, just so you can hand it over to ASM.

    So, seems to me, Oracle will still deal w/ raw, albeit perhaps only through
    the ASM path....?

    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.


    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Bobak, Mark
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 11:50 AM
    To: greg_at_structureddata.org; ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: RE: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    We were historically a shop that used raw, almost everywhere, going back to
    at least 7.0 days. We have begun moving towards ASM, as we move to 10g/11g,
    but we still have much raw, mostly on 9iR2 databases, and even a couple of
    8.1.7 stragglers.....


    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest
    789 E. Eisenhower, Parkway, P.O. Box 1346
    Ann Arbor MI 48106-1346
    +1.734.997.4059 or +1.800.521.0600 x 4059
    mark.bobak_at_proquest.com
    www.proquest.com
    www.csa.com

    ProQuest...Start here.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Greg Rahn
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:14 AM
    To: ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced. My guess is that 11gR2 will provide something.

    Do many people use raw devices for data files? e.g. data file is
    actually a raw volume
    Most of the customers that I have worked with have moved from raw to ASM.


    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org <http://structureddata.org/>
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l


    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l



    ______________________________________________________________________
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    =========================

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  • Greg Rahn at Aug 11, 2008 at 8:04 am
    To quote the notice: "This means customers can no longer keep their
    datafiles, OCR or Voting disks on raw devices in Oracle 12g."
    What this means that the Oracle database will not support any file on
    a raw device *directly*. There will have to be a layer between the
    raw device and the database (ASM, filesystem, etc).

    I think this is a good, forward looking desupport notice. Given the
    pace that I have seen the significant number of customers adopt new
    releases for existing production systems, it will be probably be 8
    years before 12G is widely common. I base that number on the fact
    that 10g came out in 2004, and many large shops are just upgrading to
    10gR2 in 2008, 4 years later. Since 11g was released second half of
    2007, add 4 years for 11gR2 (or whatever R release) to be main stream
    and another 4 years for 12gR? to be main stream. By my estimate we re
    talking 2015+/- time frame. Now obviously green field installs will
    follow a faster adoption rate, but that is also the case today.
    On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Bobak, Mark wrote:
    And I forgot the second part of my posting.....so, as people move from RAW to ASM, they're still going to use RAW volumes to allocate storage to ASM, right? Seems to me it would be pretty silly to put filesystems on all your storage, just so you can hand it over to ASM.

    So, seems to me, Oracle will still deal w/ raw, albeit perhaps only through the ASM path....?
    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Yavor Ivanov at Aug 12, 2008 at 8:39 am
    We all know RBO is desupported in 10g. However, in 11g I still see recursive queries caused by the CBO itself, which have the /*+rule*/ hint.
    I would bet 2 cents (even euro-cents) that at least OCR and voting disks will still be possible on raw on 12g. I think there should be at least one version with the possibility for OCR/Vote disk on ASM before this becomes common. To put OCR/Vote on ASM we need ASM up and running before OCR. Then ASM will need some other mechanism for working in clustered mode - something like OCFS' basic clustering functionality.
    The other possibility is that 11gR2 will give us OCFS on all platforms, and in the time 12G comes out, OCFS will be stable enough on AIX/UX/Solaris.

    In the other hand, support for raw devices has been deprecated in the Linux 2.6 kernel and the raw interface is hard to configure (but still possible) in RHEL5 (note 465001.1). Maybe this is what we are talking about?

    Regards,
    Yavor Ivanov
    Oracle Certified Master

    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On Behalf Of Greg Rahn
    Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 11:05 AM
    To: Bobak, Mark
    Cc: ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    To quote the notice: "This means customers can no longer keep their
    datafiles, OCR or Voting disks on raw devices in Oracle 12g."
    What this means that the Oracle database will not support any file on
    a raw device *directly*. There will have to be a layer between the
    raw device and the database (ASM, filesystem, etc).

    I think this is a good, forward looking desupport notice. Given the
    pace that I have seen the significant number of customers adopt new
    releases for existing production systems, it will be probably be 8
    years before 12G is widely common. I base that number on the fact
    that 10g came out in 2004, and many large shops are just upgrading to
    10gR2 in 2008, 4 years later. Since 11g was released second half of
    2007, add 4 years for 11gR2 (or whatever R release) to be main stream
    and another 4 years for 12gR? to be main stream. By my estimate we re
    talking 2015+/- time frame. Now obviously green field installs will
    follow a faster adoption rate, but that is also the case today.
    On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Bobak, Mark wrote:
    And I forgot the second part of my posting.....so, as people move from RAW to ASM, they're still going to use RAW volumes to allocate storage to ASM, right? Seems to me it would be pretty silly to put filesystems on all your storage, just so you can hand it over to ASM.

    So, seems to me, Oracle will still deal w/ raw, albeit perhaps only through the ASM path....?
    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org
    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l

    --
    http://www.freelists.org/webpage/oracle-l
  • Greg Rahn at Aug 12, 2008 at 11:52 am

    On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 1:39 AM, Yavor Ivanov wrote:
    We all know RBO is desupported in 10g. However, in 11g I still see recursive queries caused by the CBO itself, which have the /*+rule*/ hint.
    I would bet 2 cents (even euro-cents) that at least OCR and voting disks will still be possible on raw on 12g. I think there should be at least one version with the possibility for OCR/Vote disk on ASM before this becomes common. To put OCR/Vote on ASM we need ASM up and running before OCR. Then ASM will need some other mechanism for working in clustered mode - something like OCFS' basic clustering functionality.
    The other possibility is that 11gR2 will give us OCFS on all platforms, and in the time 12G comes out, OCFS will be stable enough on AIX/UX/Solaris.
    My bet (sto leva) is that it will be much clearer when 11gR2 is available.
    In the other hand, support for raw devices has been deprecated in the Linux 2.6 kernel and the raw interface is hard to configure (but still possible) in RHEL5 (note 465001.1). Maybe this is what we are talking about?
    This *is not* what the desupport notice is discussing.
  • Hemant K Chitale at Aug 9, 2008 at 6:20 am
    I have only just begun "playing" with ASM now ! I have had no issues
    with both filesystems and raw on a large number of platforms.
    Most responses/references seem to from a Linux perspective (and OCFS
    was [is still ?] available only on Linux, with ASM uptake also
    beginning on Linux) -- eg that RedHat and flavours will be "desupporting" Raw.

    The fact could well be that there are "no Linux, no OCFS, no
    ASM" datacentres still operating happily running Oracle databases.

    Hemant
    At 11:49 PM Friday, Bobak, Mark wrote:
    We were historically a shop that used raw, almost everywhere, going
    back to at least 7.0 days. We have begun moving towards ASM, as we
    move to 10g/11g, but we still have much raw, mostly on 9iR2
    databases, and even a couple of 8.1.7 stragglers.....


    -Mark

    --
    Mark J. Bobak
    Senior Database Administrator, System & Product Technologies
    ProQuest


    -----Original Message-----
    From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
    On Behalf Of Greg Rahn
    Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 5:14 AM
    To: ORACLE-L Freelists
    Subject: Re: 12G Desupport for Raw Devices

    Generally before something is deprecated, an alternative is
    introduced. My guess is that 11gR2 will provide something.

    Do many people use raw devices for data files? e.g. data file is
    actually a raw volume
    Most of the customers that I have worked with have moved from raw to ASM.


    --
    Regards,
    Greg Rahn
    http://structureddata.org
    Hemant K Chitale

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