[Oracle-l] OC4J Process Architecture

Original Message --------
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture
J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv apparently said,on my timestamp of 14/06/2004 3:05 AM:
Yes it does. Thanks a lot for posting it, there is
very little information about this library.

There is a book out from Oracle Press, I think, that
deals with JDeveloper in detail. Maybe you'd find some
additional info there?
http://tinyurl.com/234c6
will take you to it.
HTH.

The tinyurl included points to the 9i JDeveloper Handbook, which is for the
last version of the product. The JDeveloper 10g Handbook is also listed on
Amazon, but isn't published yet. The publication date is early this fall,
say, September.

However, the 10g book doesn't contain much information about the internals
of OC4J. (I'm one of the technical editors.) But the authors, I know, have
encountered similar problems. You might try contacting Paul Dorsey directly
(see his company's web site at http://www.dulcian.com) with specific
questions. He is usually more than willing to offer advice.

There is another book on Amazon about JDeveloper:
Oracle JDeveloper 10G: Empowering J2EE Development

One of the co-authors is Roel Stallman, who is the major Oracle evangelist
(that may be his official job title) for JDeveloper. This book may contain
more on the internals and architecture, although I haven't looked at it.

Leslie
Leslie Tierstein
Senior Consultant
Vision Chain, Inc.
The first software to power the demand data network
phone: 202-261-3549

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
On Behalf Of Nuno Souto
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:58 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture

Original Message --------
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture
J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv apparently said,on my timestamp of 14/06/2004 3:05 AM:
Yes it does. Thanks a lot for posting it, there is
very little information about this library.

There is a book out from Oracle Press, I think, that
deals with JDeveloper in detail. Maybe you'd find some
additional info there?
http://tinyurl.com/234c6
will take you to it.
HTH.

Tank you for responce,

Unfortunately I already have book you mention (9i JDeveloper Handbook);(
There a little bit more information, but not so match, as I would like to;(.
As I wrote, I will be indefinitely happy if it will be the information
about OC4J like about RDBMS.
Cary Millsap and others Oracle experts have written excellent books about
Oracle wait interface and how to face performance issues. Unfortunately as
far as I know, there no possibility to use R-Method or other response-time
based performance-tuning method without written own code for debugging
purposes.
I am just DBA and you know, I have no big expense with Java programming.
At the moment it looks like the good OC4J administrator will be Java top
developer who perfectly know Java world.;(

By my expense Looks like traditional DBA is unpowerful in many OC4J
performance tuning situations.

Jurijs
9268222

http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs.html

"Leslie Tierstein"
14.06.2004 16:14


To:
cc:,
Subject: RE: OC4J Process Architecture

The tinyurl included points to the 9i JDeveloper Handbook, which is for
the
last version of the product. The JDeveloper 10g Handbook is also listed on
Amazon, but isn't published yet. The publication date is early this fall,
say, September.

However, the 10g book doesn't contain much information about the internals
of OC4J. (I'm one of the technical editors.) But the authors, I know, have
encountered similar problems. You might try contacting Paul Dorsey
directly
(see his company's web site at http://www.dulcian.com) with specific
questions. He is usually more than willing to offer advice.

There is another book on Amazon about JDeveloper:
Oracle JDeveloper 10G: Empowering J2EE Development

One of the co-authors is Roel Stallman, who is the major Oracle evangelist
(that may be his official job title) for JDeveloper. This book may contain
more on the internals and architecture, although I haven't looked at it.

Leslie
Leslie Tierstein
Senior Consultant
Vision Chain, Inc.
The first software to power the demand data network
phone: 202-261-3549

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
On Behalf Of Nuno Souto
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:58 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture

Original Message --------
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture
J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv apparently said,on my timestamp of 14/06/2004 3:05
AM:
Yes it does. Thanks a lot for posting it, there is
very little information about this library.

There is a book out from Oracle Press, I think, that
deals with JDeveloper in detail. Maybe you'd find some
additional info there?
http://tinyurl.com/234c6
will take you to it.
HTH.

Jurijs

You are correct that it would be great if someone documented everything
you could ever want to know about OC4J. Since you don't seem to have that,
there are a couple of other approaches you can take. Here are some ideas for
you:

You can execute your Java programs on a test system without other users
and get some good traces to use with Cary's methods. If that doesn't expose
the problems sufficiently, then you at least have gained some experience
with the types of traces you will see so that if you decide you must turn on
tracing on the production system you won't be totally bewildered.
While it is nice to have the "heavy artillery" for solving problems,
bear in mind that most problems are of a simpler nature and can be resolved
without the more in-depth methods. Just keep in mind that if the problems
don't seem to go away when you apply simple solutions, then you need to use
more in-depth methods, rather than persisting in simplistic solutions.
In my experience, few Java programmers are concerned with database
issues. Usually their approach is to tell the DBA to "fix that". I think the
DBA needs to learn something about Java and how it tends to interact with
the database. Particularly if you use an Oracle product like OC4J, this will
be viewed as a DBA issue.

The key point is that in the end the performance problems must be understood
so the organization can take steps to correct them. How to find the problems
may require some study and ingenuity on your part. Don't give up!

Dennis Williams
DBA

Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org On
Behalf Of J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:04 AM
To: Leslie Tierstein
Cc: dbvision_at_optusnet.com.au; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: RE: OC4J Process Architecture

Tank you for responce,

Unfortunately I already have book you mention (9i JDeveloper Handbook);(
There a little bit more information, but not so match, as I would like to;(.
As I wrote, I will be indefinitely happy if it will be the information about
OC4J like about RDBMS.
Cary Millsap and others Oracle experts have written excellent books about
Oracle wait interface and how to face performance issues. Unfortunately as
far as I know, there no possibility to use R-Method or other response-time
based performance-tuning method without written own code for debugging
purposes.
I am just DBA and you know, I have no big expense with Java programming.
At the moment it looks like the good OC4J administrator will be Java top
developer who perfectly know Java world.;(

By my expense Looks like traditional DBA is unpowerful in many OC4J
performance tuning situations.

Jurijs
9268222

http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs.html

"Leslie Tierstein"

14.06.2004 16:14

To:
cc:,
Subject: RE: OC4J Process Architecture

The tinyurl included points to the 9i JDeveloper Handbook, which is for the
last version of the product. The JDeveloper 10g Handbook is also listed on
Amazon, but isn't published yet. The publication date is early this fall,
say, September.

However, the 10g book doesn't contain much information about the internals
of OC4J. (I'm one of the technical editors.) But the authors, I know, have
encountered similar problems. You might try contacting Paul Dorsey directly
(see his company's web site at http://www.dulcian.com) with specific
questions. He is usually more than willing to offer advice.

There is another book on Amazon about JDeveloper:
Oracle JDeveloper 10G: Empowering J2EE Development

One of the co-authors is Roel Stallman, who is the major Oracle evangelist
(that may be his official job title) for JDeveloper. This book may contain
more on the internals and architecture, although I haven't looked at it.

Leslie
Leslie Tierstein
Senior Consultant
Vision Chain, Inc.
The first software to power the demand data network
phone: 202-261-3549

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
On Behalf Of Nuno Souto
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:58 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture

Original Message --------
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture
J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv apparently said,on my timestamp of 14/06/2004 3:05 AM:
Yes it does. Thanks a lot for posting it, there is
very little information about this library.

There is a book out from Oracle Press, I think, that
deals with JDeveloper in detail. Maybe you'd find some
additional info there?
http://tinyurl.com/234c6
will take you to it.
HTH.

DENNIS,

Thank you for good words.
I’ll take them in mind.
simplistic solutions
We have here, just finished J2EE application in production.
~20-40 modules. Application written by 60-100 developers during 1 year.
There are ~100 concurrent users works with different applications modules
during working day.
Quite difficult to emulate situations we have in productions (performance,
deadlock etc.) in test environment using one user connection;). We are
using Rational Robot for stress testing. But there still situations in
productions that we are not able to reproduce in test environment.
simplistic solutions
I wouldn’t say we are fear from depth methods. I am ready to. But it seams
the problem solver need to have dip knowledge about application code for
successfully fighting with problems. DBA nowadays have many
responsibilities and looks like dipper methods will take more time from
daily duties.
It look like you confirm my words.
DBA need to work with OC4J as with BLACK BOX.
“Developers telling to fix” and DBA fixing
if “if the problems don't to go away “
then call Developers for next loop and wait for next solution, without
knowledge that happening inside of OC4J.

Jurijs
9268222

http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs.html

DENNIS WILLIAMS
Sent by: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
14.06.2004 17:30
Please respond to oracle-l


To: "'oracle-l_at_freelists.org'"
cc:
Subject: RE: OC4J Process Architecture

Jurijs
You are correct that it would be great if someone documented

everything
you could ever want to know about OC4J. Since you don't seem to have that,
there are a couple of other approaches you can take. Here are some ideas
for
you:

You can execute your Java programs on a test system without other
users
and get some good traces to use with Cary's methods. If that doesn't
expose
the problems sufficiently, then you at least have gained some experience
with the types of traces you will see so that if you decide you must turn
on
tracing on the production system you won't be totally bewildered.
While it is nice to have the "heavy artillery" for solving problems,
bear in mind that most problems are of a simpler nature and can be
resolved
without the more in-depth methods. Just keep in mind that if the problems
don't seem to go away when you apply simple solutions, then you need to
use
more in-depth methods, rather than persisting in simplistic solutions.
In my experience, few Java programmers are concerned with database
issues. Usually their approach is to tell the DBA to "fix that". I think
the
DBA needs to learn something about Java and how it tends to interact with
the database. Particularly if you use an Oracle product like OC4J, this
will
be viewed as a DBA issue.

The key point is that in the end the performance problems must be
understood
so the organization can take steps to correct them. How to find the
problems
may require some study and ingenuity on your part. Don't give up!

Dennis Williams
DBA

Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
On
Behalf Of J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:04 AM
To: Leslie Tierstein
Cc: dbvision_at_optusnet.com.au; oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: RE: OC4J Process Architecture

Tank you for responce,

Unfortunately I already have book you mention (9i JDeveloper Handbook);(

There a little bit more information, but not so match, as I would like to;(.
As I wrote, I will be indefinitely happy if it will be the information
about
OC4J like about RDBMS.
Cary Millsap and others Oracle experts have written excellent books about
Oracle wait interface and how to face performance issues. Unfortunately as
far as I know, there no possibility to use R-Method or other response-time
based performance-tuning method without written own code for debugging
purposes.
I am just DBA and you know, I have no big expense with Java programming.
At the moment it looks like the good OC4J administrator will be Java top
developer who perfectly know Java world.;(

By my expense Looks like traditional DBA is unpowerful in many OC4J
performance tuning situations.

Jurijs
9268222

http://otn.oracle.com/ocm/jvelikanovs.html

"Leslie Tierstein"

14.06.2004 16:14



To:
cc:,
Subject: RE: OC4J Process Architecture

The tinyurl included points to the 9i JDeveloper Handbook, which is for
the
last version of the product. The JDeveloper 10g Handbook is also listed on
Amazon, but isn't published yet. The publication date is early this fall,
say, September.

However, the 10g book doesn't contain much information about the internals
of OC4J. (I'm one of the technical editors.) But the authors, I know, have
encountered similar problems. You might try contacting Paul Dorsey
directly
(see his company's web site at http://www.dulcian.com) with specific
questions. He is usually more than willing to offer advice.

There is another book on Amazon about JDeveloper:
Oracle JDeveloper 10G: Empowering J2EE Development

One of the co-authors is Roel Stallman, who is the major Oracle evangelist
(that may be his official job title) for JDeveloper. This book may contain
more on the internals and architecture, although I haven't looked at it.

Leslie
Leslie Tierstein
Senior Consultant
Vision Chain, Inc.
The first software to power the demand data network
phone: 202-261-3549

-----Original Message-----
From: oracle-l-bounce_at_freelists.org
On Behalf Of Nuno Souto
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 6:58 AM
To: oracle-l_at_freelists.org
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture

Original Message --------
Subject: Re: OC4J Process Architecture
J.Velikanovs_at_alise.lv apparently said,on my timestamp of 14/06/2004 3:05
AM:
Yes it does. Thanks a lot for posting it, there is
very little information about this library.

There is a book out from Oracle Press, I think, that
deals with JDeveloper in detail. Maybe you'd find some
additional info there?
http://tinyurl.com/234c6
will take you to it.
HTH.

Hi Jurijs,

OC4J started out life as the Orion Application Server. Check out
http://www.orionserver.com/ as there is a doc library there which is likely
still valid.

A good approach seems to be to build a repeatable install process using the
automation tools (dcmctl and admin.jar). If you get a problem take a
slash/burn/rebuild approach to the whole installation; this seems to solve a
lot of corruption issues.

After that, if you still get problems, do what we have and pay to have a
technically current Oracle Corporation consultant onsite. A good one can
pretty much spot a bug 50 hours before support will. His approach is
normally to reverse engineer the code from the JAR files (actually anyone
can), check the problem out himself and then tell support what needs fixing.
At least you will know what you are dealing with if you can see the code.

Kind Regards,
Adrian