[Oracle-l] Re: COBOL TO ORACLE

LOL

Of course the spent a lot on money on veterinarians to inoculate the horses
against the Y2K bug.

Mladen Gogala

@wangtrading.com cc:
Sent by:
ml-errors

09/30/2003 05:14
PM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L
language.
>

COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
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COBOL isn't dead, it just smells funny. You know what COBOL stands for,
don't you? COBOL=Completely Outdated, Badly Overused Language.
Note:
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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.

Wonderful race, the Romans. Just super!
>>>

Then perhaps you can help me . . .

We are suffering through a Pro*Cobol / Oracle on the mainframe implementation for a newly developed in house application.

We have a mainframe with 1.7GB - 2GB REAL memory.
4 CPU machine - we have two logical CPUs in our LPAR
We have 8 instances running (each with at least 300MB SGA)
We are having major performance problems when people start doing a lot of work on these instances.

The Mainframe SYSADMIN insists that there is NO swapping, NO paging occuring. There is no problem because each instance can have 2GB VIRTUAL memory and this is fine and dandy because this is how the mainframe works.

Did you ever use Oracle on a mainframe?
Did you come up with guidelines for minimum requirements?
(like in the UNIX install guides / NT install guides, you need X RAM, etc)

Thanks
Babette

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-09-30 5:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity.

Eeep! Reminds me of my CICS programming in school on a 4MB (MEGA bytes) IBM
4341 with the student partition on the lowest priority. For some reason,
the operator got really mad at me when I forgot to put an unexecutable EXIT
statement in my code...

Barring any OS stats, have you tried a 10046 trace on any of the slow
processes to see where the holdup is? It's been about 15 years since my
mainframe days in school, but I'd still question 2.4GB worth of SGA on a 2GB
machine, and that's without server processes, OS, etc... What is "virtual"
memory? DISK!

Rich

Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
rjesse_at_qtiworld.com Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

What kind of a mainframe is that?

Usually "mainframe" means an IBM machine based on 370 architecture. If
that's the case then your SYSADMIN is wrong. Many, many years ago I
started out as a computer operator for an IBM 370/165 and worked with IBM
mainframes up through the E6000 series. They all work as virtual machines,
swapping and paging sessions in and out of the physical RAM.

Of course, you may have some other type of mainframe, in which case, what I
said doesn't apply.

@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca cc:
Sent by:
ml-errors

10/01/2003 03:09
PM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L

Then perhaps you can help me . . .

We are suffering through a Pro*Cobol / Oracle on the mainframe
implementation for a newly developed in house application.

We have a mainframe with 1.7GB - 2GB REAL memory.
4 CPU machine - we have two logical CPUs in our LPAR
We have 8 instances running (each with at least 300MB SGA)
We are having major performance problems when people start doing a lot of
work on these instances.

The Mainframe SYSADMIN insists that there is NO swapping, NO paging
occuring. There is no problem because each instance can have 2GB VIRTUAL
memory and this is fine and dandy because this is how the mainframe works.

Did you ever use Oracle on a mainframe?
Did you come up with guidelines for minimum requirements?
(like in the UNIX install guides / NT install guides, you need X RAM, etc)

Thanks
Babette

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-09-30 5:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
language.
>

COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the
right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to
state them to be the views of any such entity.

What OS are you using? I assume the COBOL app resides on the same box as the database? When performance is poor, can you see what the top processes are?

As for the merits of COBOL, our COBOL apps hum along very nicely, processing millions of records a month. Also, I like having conversations with developers that tell me "I connect to the database and run this SQL statement..." vs getting into some convoluted discussion about objects, object servers, ODBC formatted SQL, etc. Perhaps I'm blissfully ignorant about some aspects of programming, but I can tell you that our COBOL programs that follow the KISS method give us the least amount of headaches.

Jay
Then perhaps you can help me . . .

We are suffering through a Pro*Cobol / Oracle on the mainframe implementation for a newly developed in house application.

We have a mainframe with 1.7GB - 2GB REAL memory.
4 CPU machine - we have two logical CPUs in our LPAR
We have 8 instances running (each with at least 300MB SGA)
We are having major performance problems when people start doing a lot of work on these instances.

The Mainframe SYSADMIN insists that there is NO swapping, NO paging occuring. There is no problem because each instance can have 2GB VIRTUAL memory and this is fine and dandy because this is how the mainframe works.

Did you ever use Oracle on a mainframe?
Did you come up with guidelines for minimum requirements?
(like in the UNIX install guides / NT install guides, you need X RAM, etc)

Thanks
Babette

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-09-30 5:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

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Sorry for the delay ...

Was at Ottawa Oracle User Group Days last week and spent the time since then playing catch-up

Yes, we are using OS/390 v10.
I STRONGLY suspect the SYSADMIN is wrong.
There HAS to be swapping / paging going on, but he insists this is not the case.

Babette Turner-Underwood
work: babette.turnerunderwood_at_hrdc-drhc.gc.ca
home: babette_at_rogers.com
954-3752 (Mon - Fri 7am - 3pm)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-10-01 4:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

What kind of a mainframe is that?

Usually "mainframe" means an IBM machine based on 370 architecture. If
that's the case then your SYSADMIN is wrong. Many, many years ago I
started out as a computer operator for an IBM 370/165 and worked with IBM
mainframes up through the E6000 series. They all work as virtual machines,
swapping and paging sessions in and out of the physical RAM.

Of course, you may have some other type of mainframe, in which case, what I
said doesn't apply.

@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca cc:
Sent by:
ml-errors

10/01/2003 03:09
PM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L

Then perhaps you can help me . . .

We are suffering through a Pro*Cobol / Oracle on the mainframe
implementation for a newly developed in house application.

We have a mainframe with 1.7GB - 2GB REAL memory.
4 CPU machine - we have two logical CPUs in our LPAR
We have 8 instances running (each with at least 300MB SGA)
We are having major performance problems when people start doing a lot of
work on these instances.

The Mainframe SYSADMIN insists that there is NO swapping, NO paging
occuring. There is no problem because each instance can have 2GB VIRTUAL
memory and this is fine and dandy because this is how the mainframe works.

Did you ever use Oracle on a mainframe?
Did you come up with guidelines for minimum requirements?
(like in the UNIX install guides / NT install guides, you need X RAM, etc)

Thanks
Babette

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-09-30 5:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
language.
>

COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the
right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to
state them to be the views of any such entity.

I went to IBM's web site (http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/)
and found OS/390 -

OS/390
OS/390, the foundation of the new z/OS, provides high levels of availability, scale and
manageability for mission-critical workloads, with such features as Workload Manager and
Parallel Sysplex support. OS/390 is an integrated offering of many elements and optional
features, including new technologies such as Enterprise Java Beans, XML, and HTML. OS/390
provides the qualities of service needed to meet the demands of global e-business.

Notice the mention of Workload Manager --- Basically setting the priorities
of various processes as to when they will be swapped back in. I suspect
that your SYSADMIN is trained in the current version but does not
understand the underlying technology. If there were no swapping then only
one user could be signed on at a time, they could only run one process, and
when they went to print the process would stop until the printing was
finished.

@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca cc:
Sent by:
ml-errors

10/07/2003 03:59
PM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L

Sorry for the delay ...

Was at Ottawa Oracle User Group Days last week and spent the time since
then playing catch-up

Yes, we are using OS/390 v10.
I STRONGLY suspect the SYSADMIN is wrong.
There HAS to be swapping / paging going on, but he insists this is not the
case.

Babette Turner-Underwood
work: babette.turnerunderwood_at_hrdc-drhc.gc.ca
home: babette_at_rogers.com
954-3752 (Mon - Fri 7am - 3pm)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-10-01 4:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

What kind of a mainframe is that?

Usually "mainframe" means an IBM machine based on 370 architecture. If
that's the case then your SYSADMIN is wrong. Many, many years ago I
started out as a computer operator for an IBM 370/165 and worked with IBM
mainframes up through the E6000 series. They all work as virtual machines,
swapping and paging sessions in and out of the physical RAM.

Of course, you may have some other type of mainframe, in which case, what I
said doesn't apply.

@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca cc:
Sent by:

ml-errors

10/01/2003 03:09

PM

Please respond

to ORACLE-L

Then perhaps you can help me . . .

We are suffering through a Pro*Cobol / Oracle on the mainframe
implementation for a newly developed in house application.

We have a mainframe with 1.7GB - 2GB REAL memory.
4 CPU machine - we have two logical CPUs in our LPAR
We have 8 instances running (each with at least 300MB SGA)
We are having major performance problems when people start doing a lot of
work on these instances.

The Mainframe SYSADMIN insists that there is NO swapping, NO paging
occuring. There is no problem because each instance can have 2GB VIRTUAL
memory and this is fine and dandy because this is how the mainframe works.

Did you ever use Oracle on a mainframe?
Did you come up with guidelines for minimum requirements?
(like in the UNIX install guides / NT install guides, you need X RAM, etc)

Thanks
Babette

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-09-30 5:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
language.
>

COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the
right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to
state them to be the views of any such entity.

Welcome to MY world :-(

Basically, we need to get a Volkswagen to run faster than a Ferrari.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-10-07 4:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I went to IBM's web site (http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/os/)
and found OS/390 -

OS/390
OS/390, the foundation of the new z/OS, provides high levels of availability, scale and
manageability for mission-critical workloads, with such features as Workload Manager and
Parallel Sysplex support. OS/390 is an integrated offering of many elements and optional
features, including new technologies such as Enterprise Java Beans, XML, and HTML. OS/390
provides the qualities of service needed to meet the demands of global e-business.

Notice the mention of Workload Manager --- Basically setting the priorities
of various processes as to when they will be swapped back in. I suspect
that your SYSADMIN is trained in the current version but does not
understand the underlying technology. If there were no swapping then only
one user could be signed on at a time, they could only run one process, and
when they went to print the process would stop until the printing was
finished.

@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca cc:
Sent by:
ml-errors

10/07/2003 03:59
PM
Please respond
to ORACLE-L

Sorry for the delay ...

Was at Ottawa Oracle User Group Days last week and spent the time since
then playing catch-up

Yes, we are using OS/390 v10.
I STRONGLY suspect the SYSADMIN is wrong.
There HAS to be swapping / paging going on, but he insists this is not the
case.

Babette Turner-Underwood
work: babette.turnerunderwood_at_hrdc-drhc.gc.ca
home: babette_at_rogers.com
954-3752 (Mon - Fri 7am - 3pm)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-10-01 4:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

What kind of a mainframe is that?

Usually "mainframe" means an IBM machine based on 370 architecture. If
that's the case then your SYSADMIN is wrong. Many, many years ago I
started out as a computer operator for an IBM 370/165 and worked with IBM
mainframes up through the E6000 series. They all work as virtual machines,
swapping and paging sessions in and out of the physical RAM.

Of course, you may have some other type of mainframe, in which case, what I
said doesn't apply.

@hrdc-drhc.gc.ca cc:
Sent by:

ml-errors

10/01/2003 03:09

PM

Please respond

to ORACLE-L

Then perhaps you can help me . . .

We are suffering through a Pro*Cobol / Oracle on the mainframe
implementation for a newly developed in house application.

We have a mainframe with 1.7GB - 2GB REAL memory.
4 CPU machine - we have two logical CPUs in our LPAR
We have 8 instances running (each with at least 300MB SGA)
We are having major performance problems when people start doing a lot of
work on these instances.

The Mainframe SYSADMIN insists that there is NO swapping, NO paging
occuring. There is no problem because each instance can have 2GB VIRTUAL
memory and this is fine and dandy because this is how the mainframe works.

Did you ever use Oracle on a mainframe?
Did you come up with guidelines for minimum requirements?
(like in the UNIX install guides / NT install guides, you need X RAM, etc)

Thanks
Babette

-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2003-09-30 5:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
language.
>

COBOL *** WAS *** a programming language. Horse *** WAS *** basis of
transport. You should have used past tense, Stephane. I'm not really
that partial when it comes to horses, but having suffered COBOL, I would
really leave it in the ancient past, together with Spanish Inquisition
and crucifiction as a viable capital punishment.

Note:
This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain
confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If
you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all
copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the
sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute,
print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended
recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the
right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks.
Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender,
except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to
state them to be the views of any such entity.