[Oracle-l] Microsoft VS Oracle (again) - Grokbase

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FAQ

[Oracle-l] Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

	Gabriel Aragon
	Jul 1, 2003 at 4:11 pm

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la
pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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27 responses
Oldest
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Jamadagni, Rajendra

at Jul 1, 2003 at 5:31 pm

⇧

Aargh ...

you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL Server ...

How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

8>)

Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

*********************************************************************This e-mail

message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are
not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000
and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank

you.*********************************************************************1

reply | permalink

Gogala, Mladen

at Jul 1, 2003 at 6:35 pm

⇧

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Gabriel Aragon

at Jul 1, 2003 at 6:44 pm

⇧

mmm maybe I was not clear, my intention was to show
you what I call the MS's "desperated" cry for help.. I
love Oracle! for ever!

I just want to hear some comments about the 'facts'
they put there, I mean, how much is true?;-)

"Jamadagni, Rajendra"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Aargh ...

you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move
to SQL Server ...

How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias
...

8>)

Raj
----
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly
personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is
an art !

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI
One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a
chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel
*********************************************************************This
e-mail message is confidential, intended only for
the named recipient(s) above and may contain
information that is privileged, attorney work
product or exempt from disclosure under applicable
law. If you have received this message in error, or
are not the named recipient(s), please immediately
notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete
this e-mail message from your computer, Thank

you.*********************************************************************1
>

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la
pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Odland, Brad

at Jul 1, 2003 at 6:54 pm

⇧

SQL server on Unix lets see.....That would be none.

SQL Server doesn't even run on Windows much less any other platform...

Bwahahahahahaha...

sorry...I got carried away...

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

STEVE OLLIG

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:05 pm

⇧

there is an animal that once looked very much like SQL Server (could be an
identical twin). it does run on your favorite flavor of Unix and Linux.
it's called Sybase Adaptive Server Enterprise :o)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Jamadagni, Rajendra

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:11 pm

⇧

You missed the smiley ...

Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

-----Original Message-----
From: Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

mmm maybe I was not clear, my intention was to show
you what I call the MS's "desperated" cry for help.. I
love Oracle! for ever!

I just want to hear some comments about the 'facts'
they put there, I mean, how much is true?;-)

"Jamadagni, Rajendra"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Aargh ...

you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move
to SQL Server ...

How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias
...

8>)

Raj
----
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly
personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is
an art !

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI
One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a
chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel
*********************************************************************This
e-mail message is confidential, intended only for
the named recipient(s) above and may contain
information that is privileged, attorney work
product or exempt from disclosure under applicable
law. If you have received this message in error, or
are not the named recipient(s), please immediately
notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete
this e-mail message from your computer, Thank

you.*********************************************************************1
>

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

*********************************************************************This e-mail
message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are
not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000
and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank
you.*********************************************************************1

reply | permalink

Goulet, Dick

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:37 pm

⇧

Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has
been. Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle
black".

On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does have an
edge, but that's just how they've eliminated all of their other competition over
the years. The product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's just
that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash they have to offset
the giveaway they're into. I believe that was one of the points of the
Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

On RAC they really have a long way to
go. If you want to do a federated database setup like MicroSoft
states, just buy standard edition Oracle licenses & toss in a pile of
database links. Works the same way & you don't have to pay extra for
it. The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies, for whatever reason,
the data that node was hosting is not offline till you get it repaired. And
actually you really do not need to do anything to your application to take
advantage of RAC, except adjust your error handling to understand that a
transaction needed to be resubmitted.

Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is Windows.
Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs the same whatever the
platform. And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without any additional
software, never mind that it runs on Linux in the first place. Similar
things can also be said for DB2, Sybase, and Informix. When, if ever,
Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that runs as multiple independent
processes on Linux then I'll give them a second look. As long as their a
single multi-threaded Windows only process they can stay in Redmond. Also,
yes they are the "fastest growing" database on the market, take a look at that
copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got. There's a copy of
Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you can't uninstall it. Billy G is still up
to his old tricks. The only solution to MicroSoft is forced
divestiture. Too bad that judge could not stand up to King
George.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----From: Jamadagni, Rajendra
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:40
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
Aargh ...
you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL
Server ...
How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

8>)
Raj
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

-----Original Message----- From: Gabriel
Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:
Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
size=2>confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present", it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff showing why sql server is a better option as a DB instead oracle, contains price lists, performance evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available (almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit"
target=_blank>http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
Any comments?
Gabriel

reply | permalink

Darrell Landrum

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:40 pm

⇧

Now, now, Microsoft has made some very useful desktop caliber applications, including
SQL Server.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/01/03 02:30PM >>>

SQL server on Unix lets see.....That would be none.

SQL Server doesn't even run on Windows much less any other platform...

Bwahahahahahaha...

sorry...I got carried away...

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Gogala, Mladen

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:44 pm

⇧

The most useful thing that Microsoft has ever been
selling is Microsoft Xenix.

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:11 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Now, now, Microsoft has made some very useful desktop caliber applications,
including SQL Server.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/01/03 02:30PM >>>

SQL server on Unix lets see.....That would be none.

SQL Server doesn't even run on Windows much less any other platform...

Bwahahahahahaha...

sorry...I got carried away...

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
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reply | permalink

Richard Ji

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:49 pm

⇧

None.

Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
SQL Server from a virtual machine.

Richard Ji

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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reply | permalink

Goulet, Dick

at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:58 pm

⇧

Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

None.

Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
SQL Server from a virtual machine.

Richard Ji

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Richard Ji

at Jul 1, 2003 at 8:19 pm

⇧

Not familiar with SQL*Server but why not? What's preventing it
from work? I run Oracle under a Linux environment which runs
in VMware for my dev and test. Also run a RAC under Linux using
VMware. Other people have done RAC running under Windows under VMware.
So, what is it with SQL*Server that it won't work under VMware?
Just would like know.

Regards,

Richard

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

None.

Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
SQL Server from a virtual machine.

Richard Ji

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Johnston, Tim

at Jul 1, 2003 at 8:55 pm

⇧

"Also,
yes they are the "fastest growing" database on the market, take a look at that
copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got."

And, I
think all the exchange servers now have Sql*Server as a back end...
Considering they almost own that corner of the market, I bet that adds up to a
license or two...

Tim

-----Original Message-----From: Goulet, Dick
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:11
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has
been. Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle
black".

On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does have
an edge, but that's just how they've eliminated all of their other competition
over the years. The product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's
just that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash they have to
offset the giveaway they're into. I believe that was one of the points
of the Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

On RAC they really have a long way to
go. If you want to do a federated database setup like
MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition Oracle licenses & toss in a
pile of database links. Works the same way & you don't have to pay
extra for it. The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies, for
whatever reason, the data that node was hosting is not offline till you get it
repaired. And actually you really do not need to do anything to your
application to take advantage of RAC, except adjust your error handling to
understand that a transaction needed to be resubmitted.

Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is
Windows. Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs the
same whatever the platform. And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without
any additional software, never mind that it runs on Linux in the first
place. Similar things can also be said for DB2, Sybase, and
Informix. When, if ever, Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that runs
as multiple independent processes on Linux then I'll give them a second
look. As long as their a single multi-threaded Windows only process they
can stay in Redmond. Also, yes they are the "fastest growing" database
on the market, take a look at that copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've
got. There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you can't uninstall
it. Billy G is still up to his old tricks. The only solution to
MicroSoft is forced divestiture. Too bad that judge could not stand up
to King George.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----From: Jamadagni, Rajendra
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003
1:40 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
Aargh ...
you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL
Server ...
How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

8>)
Raj
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art
!
-----Original Message----- From:
Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit" rel="nofollow">http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit">http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?
Gabriel

reply | permalink

Gabriel Aragon

at Jul 1, 2003 at 9:08 pm

⇧

This is what I wanted to hear.. tks!

Gabriel

"Goulet, Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj
has been. Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot
calling the kettle black".

On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does
have an edge, but that's just how they've eliminated
all of their other competition over the years. The
product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's
just that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous
amounts of cash they have to offset the giveaway
they're into. I believe that was one of the points
of the Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

On RAC they really have a long way to go. If
you want to do a federated database setup like
MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition Oracle
licenses & toss in a pile of database links. Works
the same way & you don't have to pay extra for it.
The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies,
for whatever reason, the data that node was hosting
is not offline till you get it repaired. And
actually you really do not need to do anything to
your application to take advantage of RAC, except
adjust your error handling to understand that a
transaction needed to be resubmitted.

Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is
Windows. Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS
horse that runs the same whatever the platform. And
BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without any
additional software, never mind that it runs on
Linux in the first place. Similar things can also
be said for DB2, Sybase, and Informix. When, if
ever, Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that
runs as multiple independent processes on Linux then
I'll give them a second look. As long as their a
single multi-threaded Windows only process they can
stay in Redmond. Also, yes they are the "fastest
growing" database on the market, take a look at that
copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got.
There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you
can't uninstall it. Billy G is still up to his old
tricks. The only solution to MicroSoft is forced
divestiture. Too bad that judge could not stand up
to King George.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Aargh ...

you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move
to SQL Server ...

How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias
...

8>)

Raj
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly
personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is
an art !

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI
One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd

like to spend some of your time giving Billy a
chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la
pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Gabriel Aragon
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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reply | permalink

Nuno Souto

at Jul 2, 2003 at 2:21 pm

⇧

Original Message -----

Any comments?

Yes. got that one last year. Still got it.
Installed the doco in my PC at work so I could
read it in peace and quiet (!). Installed the s/w
as well so I could play with it.

Went straight to their recovery manual. Basically,
it reads like this:
"restore all db files"
"apply saved logs"

No partial recovery, no online recovery, no
PITR, nothing. Put me off the whole thing straight
away.

But if I may quote dubya: "make no mistake", they'll
fix it. And then it will be quite interesting...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Jesse, Rich

at Jul 2, 2003 at 4:33 pm

⇧

Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from the demo I saw.
HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work with only changes
to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix servers and
once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the client had to be
Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster (1-2 secs vs.
20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
queries worked flawlessly, too.

So, what's the case for code changes?

Makes me want to read the articles further...

Rich

Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
Any comments?
Gabriel

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reply | permalink

Jared Still

at Jul 2, 2003 at 4:44 pm

⇧

How do you go about finding MS SQL Server on
MS Advanced Server?

We have quite few Win2k/NT servers around here:
no mention of MS SQL in the register, and it's
not on the program menu.

Jared

On Tuesday 01 July 2003 13:10, Goulet, Dick wrote:
Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has been. Basically
MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle black".

On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does have an edge, but that's
just how they've eliminated all of their other competition over the years.
The product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's just that MicroSoft
can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash they have to offset the
giveaway they're into. I believe that was one of the points of the
Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

On RAC they really have a long way to go. If you want to do a
federated database setup like MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition
Oracle licenses & toss in a pile of database links. Works the same way &
you don't have to pay extra for it. The whole idea of RAC is that when one
node dies, for whatever reason, the data that node was hosting is not
offline till you get it repaired. And actually you really do not need to do
anything to your application to take advantage of RAC, except adjust your
error handling to understand that a transaction needed to be resubmitted.

Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is Windows. Their a one OS
horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs the same whatever the platform.
And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without any additional software, never
mind that it runs on Linux in the first place. Similar things can also be
said for DB2, Sybase, and Informix. When, if ever, Microsoft has a version
of Sql*Server that runs as multiple independent processes on Linux then
I'll give them a second look. As long as their a single multi-threaded
Windows only process they can stay in Redmond. Also, yes they are the
"fastest growing" database on the market, take a look at that copy of
Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got. There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000
in there, and you can't uninstall it. Billy G is still up to his old
tricks. The only solution to MicroSoft is forced divestiture. Too bad
that judge could not stand up to King George.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Aargh ...

you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL Server ...

How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

8>)

Raj
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI
One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

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--
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INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Nick Wagner

at Jul 2, 2003 at 5:28 pm

⇧

there are a couple of finer points that are left out...

There are really two versions of TAF that they are talking about here...

Session Failover -- it's easy to do, just rebuild the TNSNAMES.ORA file on the
client machine, and create a backup connection. If the connection fails to connect to
the primary, it will retry it on the secondary, after XX number of seconds (and a
couple other options as well.) The client has no idea that it even reconnected.
This works with about 99% of applications written with OCI8. However, since all it
does is reconnect the user, any in process transactions are lost, and the user does
not know it until they try and commit, and then they select that data back, and only
half of it is there. It's a risky solution, but works GREAT for demos.

Session Failover and reprocessing of in process transactions - This method actually
replays any in process activities on the secondary node, and then allows the user to
continue on as if nothing happened. This is one way not to have perceived data
corruption. But it does require extensive modification to the OCI connection layer so
that the Client product is 'TAF aware' And it means the client software must record
all the uncommitted activity that a session does, so that when oracle fails it to the
other machine, it knows to replay that activity before giving any response back to the
user. This works today in SQL*Plus without any modification (try it it's pretty cool)
but will require HUGE amounts of code changes to any other app to get it to work.
(i.e. try it with Oracle forms, or People Soft clients -- no chance it will work.)

so, the Microsoft is right and wrong at the same time... odd how they do that so
well.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from the demo I saw.
HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work with only changes
to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix servers and
once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the client had to be
Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster (1-2 secs vs.
20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
queries worked flawlessly, too.

So, what's the case for code changes?

Makes me want to read the articles further...

Rich

Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
Any comments?
Gabriel

--
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--
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INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Branimir Petrovic

at Jul 2, 2003 at 6:07 pm

⇧

-----Original Message-----
From: Jared Still [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: July 2, 2003 11:31 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

How do you go about finding MS SQL Server on
MS Advanced Server?

We have quite few Win2k/NT servers around here:
no mention of MS SQL in the register, and it's
not on the program menu.

Jared

It comes with "Small Business Server".

That's another name for M$ Exchange, M$ SQL, modem and fax
sharing software running atop of Win2K server all bundled
together and wrapped in gazillion wizards. All geared to
fit needs of small business owners who "have better things
to do in their lives" (than worry their (pretty?) heads
with sordid details of what's been showed down their eager
throats and why)...

Branimir

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reply | permalink

John Kanagaraj

at Jul 2, 2003 at 6:50 pm

⇧

Rich,

So, what's the case for code changes?

TAF (Transparent Application Failover) will provide both SESSION failover as
well as SELECT failover. In the former case, the session aborts on the
now-failed server and starts from the beginning on the new node, while the
latter enables user with open cursors to continue fetching on them after
failure by re-executing the cursors on the new node. The former does not
require code changes, while the latter does, and requires code changes done
on a limited number of executable environments (JDBC Thin and OCI come to
mind) that support 'TAF Callback'. TAF *with RAC* will provide the
environment for a clustered environment where the user can failover from one
node to another node accessing the same data (as compared to TAF in a
replicated environment).

Hope this answers your question. Murali Vallath [are you listening in,
Murali?] may be able to add some details [Hint!]

John Kanagaraj
Oracle Applications DBA
DBSoft Inc
(W): 408-970-7002

Disappointment is inevitable, but Discouragement is optional!

The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my
employer or clients **

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from
the demo I saw.
HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work
with only changes
to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix
servers and
once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the
client had to be
Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster
(1-2 secs vs.
20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
queries worked flawlessly, too.

So, what's the case for code changes?

Makes me want to read the articles further...

Rich
Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI
One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
Any comments?
Gabriel
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Jesse, Rich
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

--
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reply | permalink

Jesse, Rich

at Jul 2, 2003 at 6:50 pm

⇧

Interesting. For some reason, the term "transparent failover" sticks in my
head. Then again, I was remembering incorrectly. The Oracle Workload
Generator demo was for load-balanced queries between the two nodes of the
RAC. The failover was a SQL statement run from SQL*Plus, which probably
comes "TAF aware" or can be made to with a simple relinking.

Thanks for the clarification, Nick!

Rich

Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Wagner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:41 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

there are a couple of finer points that are left out...

There are really two versions of TAF that they are talking
about here...

1) Session Failover -- it's easy to do, just rebuild the
TNSNAMES.ORA file on the client machine, and create a backup
connection. If the connection fails to connect to the
primary, it will retry it on the secondary, after XX number
of seconds (and a couple other options as well.) The client
has no idea that it even reconnected. This works with about
99% of applications written with OCI8. However, since all it
does is reconnect the user, any in process transactions are
lost, and the user does not know it until they try and
commit, and then they select that data back, and only half of
it is there. It's a risky solution, but works GREAT for demos.

2) Session Failover and reprocessing of in process
transactions - This method actually replays any in process
activities on the secondary node, and then allows the user to
continue on as if nothing happened. This is one way not to
have perceived data corruption. But it does require
extensive modification to the OCI connection layer so that
the Client product is 'TAF aware' And it means the client
software must record all the uncommitted activity that a
session does, so that when oracle fails it to the other
machine, it knows to replay that activity before giving any
response back to the user. This works today in SQL*Plus
without any modification (try it it's pretty cool) but will
require HUGE amounts of code changes to any other app to get
it to work. (i.e. try it with Oracle forms, or People Soft
clients -- no chance it will work.)

so, the Microsoft is right and wrong at the same time... odd
how they do that so well.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from
the demo I saw.
HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work
with only changes
to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix
servers and
once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the
client had to be
Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster
(1-2 secs vs.
20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
queries worked flawlessly, too.

So, what's the case for code changes?

Makes me want to read the articles further...

Rich

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Jesse, Rich
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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reply | permalink

Jamadagni, Rajendra

at Jul 2, 2003 at 8:16 pm

⇧

We handle our fail over in the code .... and trust me users don't know. Nor it affects any scores that we put on the TV ... works just fine, but code design plays important role.

BTW talking of TAF, has anyone experimented with 'warming the lib cache' ?? Any experiences? I am referring to dbms_libcache in 9ir2.

Raj

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

-----Original Message-----
From: John Kanagaraj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

Rich,

So, what's the case for code changes?

TAF (Transparent Application Failover) will provide both SESSION failover as
well as SELECT failover. In the former case, the session aborts on the
now-failed server and starts from the beginning on the new node, while the
latter enables user with open cursors to continue fetching on them after
failure by re-executing the cursors on the new node. The former does not
require code changes, while the latter does, and requires code changes done
on a limited number of executable environments (JDBC Thin and OCI come to
mind) that support 'TAF Callback'. TAF *with RAC* will provide the
environment for a clustered environment where the user can failover from one
node to another node accessing the same data (as compared to TAF in a
replicated environment).

Hope this answers your question. Murali Vallath [are you listening in,
Murali?] may be able to add some details [Hint!]

John Kanagaraj
Oracle Applications DBA
DBSoft Inc
(W): 408-970-7002

Disappointment is inevitable, but Discouragement is optional!

The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my
employer or clients **

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from
the demo I saw.
HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work
with only changes
to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix
servers and
once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the
client had to be
Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster
(1-2 secs vs.
20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
queries worked flawlessly, too.

So, what's the case for code changes?

Makes me want to read the articles further...

Rich
Rich Jesse                           System/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]                  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI
One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
Any comments?
Gabriel
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Jesse, Rich
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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reply | permalink

David davis

at Jul 2, 2003 at 11:12 pm

⇧

Well, I am not particularly fond of SQL Server, but it does point in time
recovery and online recovery. At least we did it in the DB Admin class for
SQL Server 2000.

Docn isn't that great (except maybe the IT Professional series).

From: "Nuno Souto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:45:30 -0800

----- Original Message -----

Any comments?

Yes. got that one last year. Still got it.
Installed the doco in my PC at work so I could
read it in peace and quiet (!). Installed the s/w
as well so I could play with it.
Went straight to their recovery manual. Basically,
it reads like this:
"restore all db files"
"apply saved logs"
No partial recovery, no online recovery, no
PITR, nothing. Put me off the whole thing straight
away.
But if I may quote dubya: "make no mistake", they'll
fix it. And then it will be quite interesting...
Cheers
Nuno Souto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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reply | permalink

Goulet, Dick

at Jul 3, 2003 at 3:59 pm

⇧

Richard,

I'm not totally sure, but the one site that I saw that tried it got a memory error, memory cannot be written, when they started it.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Not familiar with SQL*Server but why not? What's preventing it
from work? I run Oracle under a Linux environment which runs
in VMware for my dev and test. Also run a RAC under Linux using
VMware. Other people have done RAC running under Windows under VMware.
So, what is it with SQL*Server that it won't work under VMware?
Just would like know.

Regards,

Richard

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

None.

Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
SQL Server from a virtual machine.

Richard Ji

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:mgogala_at_oxhp.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

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reply | permalink

Niall Litchfield

at Jul 3, 2003 at 8:54 pm

⇧

Hey, you beat me to it. We also did that. The issue I had with the db
admin class was nothing to do with admin tasks (whih are pretty simple)
but the whole "now hif you measure x,y and z (including ratios :( ) then
you can see that there is a performance issue. Me: So then what do you
do? Ans: Ah well you will need to attend the developers class for that
where they go through things like "explain plan" etc.

GRRR. As if developers optimize code :(

Niall

P.S. Nice to see you here Nuno.

-----Original Message-----
From: ml-errors_at_fatcity.com On
Behalf Of david davis
Sent: 03 July 2003 01:01
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

Well, I am not particularly fond of SQL Server, but it does
point in time
recovery and online recovery. At least we did it in the DB
Admin class for
SQL Server 2000.

Docn isn't that great (except maybe the IT Professional series).

From: "Nuno Souto"
Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:45:30 -0800

----- Original Message -----

Any comments?

Yes. got that one last year. Still got it.
Installed the doco in my PC at work so I could
read it in peace and quiet (!). Installed the s/w
as well so I could play with it.

Went straight to their recovery manual. Basically,
it reads like this:
"restore all db files"
"apply saved logs"

No partial recovery, no online recovery, no
PITR, nothing. Put me off the whole thing straight
away.

But if I may quote dubya: "make no mistake", they'll
fix it. And then it will be quite interesting...

Cheers
Nuno Souto
nsouto_at_optusnet.com.au

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reply | permalink

Richard Ji

at Jul 7, 2003 at 5:40 pm

⇧

I see, thanks for the info.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Richard,

I'm not totally sure, but the one site that I saw that tried it got a memory
error, memory cannot be written, when they started it.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Not familiar with SQL*Server but why not? What's preventing it
from work? I run Oracle under a Linux environment which runs
in VMware for my dev and test. Also run a RAC under Linux using
VMware. Other people have done RAC running under Windows under VMware.
So, what is it with SQL*Server that it won't work under VMware?
Just would like know.

Regards,

Richard

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:47 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

Dick Goulet
Senior Oracle DBA
Oracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

None.

Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
SQL Server from a virtual machine.

Richard Ji

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
SQL Server work on Linux?

Mladen Gogala
Oracle DBA
Phone:(203) 459-6855
Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--
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reply | permalink

MacGregor, Ian A.

at Jul 7, 2003 at 7:27 pm

⇧

Due to
budget constraints, we shutdown last week, and everyone who works here was given
four days off without pay. This was done instead of laying people
off. It was a great vacation, and the family will need to eat beans for a
few days. Anyway, I was just catching up on my mail
...

It is
not just Exchange, but Microsoft Project, the MS Collaboration
Software, MS Operating System Administration tools, and many others
which can introduce SQL*Server to a site.

It's
not just SQL*Server either. One of our Remedy systems is used by a
group which primarily uses LINUX and Sun clients. However Remedy
cannot seem to deliver a system which works with a Mozilla browser.
Hence, the users are looking a Bugzilla and MySql.

Ian
MacGregor
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----From: Johnston, Tim
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:41
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
"Also, yes they are the "fastest growing" database on
the market, take a look at that copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've
got."

And,
I think all the exchange servers now have Sql*Server as a back end...
Considering they almost own that corner of the market, I bet that adds up to a
license or two...

Tim

-----Original Message-----From: Goulet, Dick
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:11
PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has
been. Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle
black".

On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does
have an edge, but that's just how they've eliminated all of their other
competition over the years. The product does not cost less than Oracle
or DB2, it's just that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash
they have to offset the giveaway they're into. I believe that was one
of the points of the Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

On RAC they really have a long way to
go. If you want to do a federated database setup like
MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition Oracle licenses & toss in a
pile of database links. Works the same way & you don't have to pay
extra for it. The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies, for
whatever reason, the data that node was hosting is not offline till you get
it repaired. And actually you really do not need to do anything to your
application to take advantage of RAC, except adjust your error handling to
understand that a transaction needed to be resubmitted.

Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is
Windows. Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs
the same whatever the platform. And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat
without any additional software, never mind that it runs on Linux in the
first place. Similar things can also be said for DB2, Sybase, and
Informix. When, if ever, Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that
runs as multiple independent processes on Linux then I'll give them a second
look. As long as their a single multi-threaded Windows only process
they can stay in Redmond. Also, yes they are the "fastest growing"
database on the market, take a look at that copy of Windows 2000 Advanced
Server you've got. There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you
can't uninstall it. Billy G is still up to his old tricks. The
only solution to MicroSoft is forced divestiture. Too bad that judge
could not stand up to King George.

Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i DBA

-----Original Message-----From: Jamadagni, Rajendra
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003
1:40 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle
(again)
Aargh ...
you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL
Server ...
How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

8>)
Raj
size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
All Views expressed in this email are strictly
personal. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an
opinion is an art !
-----Original Message----- From:
Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
stuff showing why sql server is a better option as a
DB instead oracle, contains price lists,
performance evaluation and many other "information",
maybe you'd like to spend some of your time giving
Billy a chance to defend his product. The 4 cd's are
available (almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit"
target=_blank>http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
Any comments?
Gabriel

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