FAQ
FYI

One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
(almost completely) as links in:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

Any comments?

Gabriel

"Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la
pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

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Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Author: Gabriel Aragon
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Search Discussions

  • Jamadagni, Rajendra at Jul 1, 2003 at 5:31 pm
    Aargh ...

    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL Server ...

    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

    8>)

    Raj

    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    *********************************************************************This e-mail

    message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
    contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from
    disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are
    not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000
    and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank

    you.*********************************************************************1
  • Gogala, Mladen at Jul 1, 2003 at 6:35 pm
    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • Gabriel Aragon at Jul 1, 2003 at 6:44 pm
    mmm maybe I was not clear, my intention was to show
    you what I call the MS's "desperated" cry for help.. I
    love Oracle! for ever!

    I just want to hear some comments about the 'facts'
    they put there, I mean, how much is true?;-)

    "Jamadagni, Rajendra"
    <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
    Aargh ...

    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move
    to SQL Server ...

    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias
    ...

    8>)

    Raj
    ----
    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly
    personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is
    an art !


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    FYI
    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
    stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a
    chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel
    *********************************************************************This
    e-mail message is confidential, intended only for
    the named recipient(s) above and may contain
    information that is privileged, attorney work
    product or exempt from disclosure under applicable
    law. If you have received this message in error, or
    are not the named recipient(s), please immediately
    notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete
    this e-mail message from your computer, Thank
    you.*********************************************************************1
    >

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la
    pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • Odland, Brad at Jul 1, 2003 at 6:54 pm
    SQL server on Unix lets see.....That would be none.

    SQL Server doesn't even run on Windows much less any other platform...

    Bwahahahahahaha...

    sorry...I got carried away...

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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    Author: Gogala, Mladen
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    Author: Odland, Brad
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  • STEVE OLLIG at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:05 pm
    there is an animal that once looked very much like SQL Server (could be an
    identical twin). it does run on your favorite flavor of Unix and Linux.
    it's called Sybase Adaptive Server Enterprise :o)

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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    Author: Gogala, Mladen
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    Author: STEVE OLLIG
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  • Jamadagni, Rajendra at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:11 pm
    You missed the smiley ...

    Raj

    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:10 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

    mmm maybe I was not clear, my intention was to show
    you what I call the MS's "desperated" cry for help.. I
    love Oracle! for ever!

    I just want to hear some comments about the 'facts'
    they put there, I mean, how much is true?;-)

    "Jamadagni, Rajendra"
    <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
    Aargh ...

    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move
    to SQL Server ...

    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias
    ...

    8>)

    Raj
    ----
    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly
    personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is
    an art !


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    FYI
    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
    stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a
    chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel
    *********************************************************************This
    e-mail message is confidential, intended only for
    the named recipient(s) above and may contain
    information that is privileged, attorney work
    product or exempt from disclosure under applicable
    law. If you have received this message in error, or
    are not the named recipient(s), please immediately
    notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete
    this e-mail message from your computer, Thank
    you.*********************************************************************1
    >

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

    Fat City Network Services    -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California        -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    *********************************************************************This e-mail
    message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may
    contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from
    disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are
    not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000
    and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank
    you.*********************************************************************1
  • Goulet, Dick at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:37 pm
    Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has
    been.  Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle
    black".

    On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does have an
    edge, but that's just how they've eliminated all of their other competition over
    the years.  The product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's just
    that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash they have to offset
    the giveaway they're into.  I believe that was one of the points of the
    Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

    On RAC they really have a long way to
    go.  If you want to do a federated database setup like MicroSoft
    states, just buy standard edition Oracle licenses & toss in a pile of
    database links.  Works the same way & you don't have to pay extra for
    it.  The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies, for whatever reason,
    the data that node was hosting is not offline till you get it repaired. And
    actually you really do not need to do anything to your application to take
    advantage of RAC, except adjust your error handling to understand that a
    transaction needed to be resubmitted.

    Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is Windows.
    Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs the same whatever the
    platform.  And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without any additional
    software, never mind that it runs on Linux in the first place.  Similar
    things can also be said for DB2, Sybase, and Informix.  When, if ever,
    Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that runs as multiple independent
    processes on Linux then I'll give them a second look.  As long as their a
    single multi-threaded Windows only process they can stay in Redmond.  Also,
    yes they are the "fastest growing" database on the market, take a look at that
    copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got.  There's a copy of
    Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you can't uninstall it.  Billy G is still up
    to his old tricks.  The only solution to MicroSoft is forced
    divestiture.  Too bad that judge could not stand up to King
    George.

    Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----From: Jamadagni, Rajendra
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:40
    PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
    Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    Aargh ...
    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL
    Server ...
    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

    8>)
    Raj
    size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

    -----Original Message----- From: Gabriel
    Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:
    Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    size=2>confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present", it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff showing why sql server is a better option as a DB instead oracle, contains price lists, performance evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit"
    target=_blank>http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
    Any comments?
    Gabriel
  • Darrell Landrum at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:40 pm
    Now, now, Microsoft has made some very useful desktop caliber applications, including
    SQL Server.
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/01/03 02:30PM >>>
    SQL server on Unix lets see.....That would be none.

    SQL Server doesn't even run on Windows much less any other platform...

    Bwahahahahahaha...

    sorry...I got carried away...

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gogala, Mladen
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • Gogala, Mladen at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:44 pm
    The most useful thing that Microsoft has ever been
    selling is Microsoft Xenix.

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:11 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Now, now, Microsoft has made some very useful desktop caliber applications,
    including SQL Server.
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/01/03 02:30PM >>>
    SQL server on Unix lets see.....That would be none.

    SQL Server doesn't even run on Windows much less any other platform...

    Bwahahahahahaha...

    sorry...I got carried away...

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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  • Richard Ji at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:49 pm
    None.

    Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
    SQL Server from a virtual machine.

    Richard Ji

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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    Author: Gabriel Aragon
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  • Goulet, Dick at Jul 1, 2003 at 7:58 pm
    Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    None.

    Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
    SQL Server from a virtual machine.

    Richard Ji

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • Richard Ji at Jul 1, 2003 at 8:19 pm
    Not familiar with SQL*Server but why not? What's preventing it
    from work? I run Oracle under a Linux environment which runs
    in VMware for my dev and test. Also run a RAC under Linux using
    VMware. Other people have done RAC running under Windows under VMware.
    So, what is it with SQL*Server that it won't work under VMware?
    Just would like know.

    Regards,

    Richard

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:47 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    None.

    Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
    SQL Server from a virtual machine.

    Richard Ji

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • Johnston, Tim at Jul 1, 2003 at 8:55 pm
    "Also,
    yes they are the "fastest growing" database on the market, take a look at that
    copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got."

    And, I
    think all the exchange servers now have Sql*Server as a back end...
    Considering they almost own that corner of the market, I bet that adds up to a
    license or two...

    Tim

    -----Original Message-----From: Goulet, Dick
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:11
    PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
    Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has
    been.  Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle
    black".

    On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does have
    an edge, but that's just how they've eliminated all of their other competition
    over the years.  The product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's
    just that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash they have to
    offset the giveaway they're into.  I believe that was one of the points
    of the Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

    On RAC they really have a long way to
    go.  If you want to do a federated database setup like
    MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition Oracle licenses & toss in a
    pile of database links.  Works the same way & you don't have to pay
    extra for it.  The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies, for
    whatever reason, the data that node was hosting is not offline till you get it
    repaired. And actually you really do not need to do anything to your
    application to take advantage of RAC, except adjust your error handling to
    understand that a transaction needed to be resubmitted.

    Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is
    Windows.  Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs the
    same whatever the platform.  And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without
    any additional software, never mind that it runs on Linux in the first
    place.  Similar things can also be said for DB2, Sybase, and
    Informix.  When, if ever, Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that runs
    as multiple independent processes on Linux then I'll give them a second
    look.  As long as their a single multi-threaded Windows only process they
    can stay in Redmond.  Also, yes they are the "fastest growing" database
    on the market, take a look at that copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've
    got.  There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you can't uninstall
    it.  Billy G is still up to his old tricks.  The only solution to
    MicroSoft is forced divestiture.  Too bad that judge could not stand up
    to King George.

    Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i DBA


    -----Original Message-----From: Jamadagni, Rajendra
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003
    1:40 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject:
    RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    Aargh ...
    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL
    Server ...
    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...


    8>)
    Raj
    size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art
    !
    -----Original Message----- From:
    Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit" rel="nofollow">http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit">http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit


    Any comments?
    Gabriel
  • Gabriel Aragon at Jul 1, 2003 at 9:08 pm
    This is what I wanted to hear.. tks!

    Gabriel

    "Goulet, Dick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
    Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj
    has been. Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot
    calling the kettle black".

    On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does
    have an edge, but that's just how they've eliminated
    all of their other competition over the years. The
    product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's
    just that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous
    amounts of cash they have to offset the giveaway
    they're into. I believe that was one of the points
    of the Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

    On RAC they really have a long way to go. If
    you want to do a federated database setup like
    MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition Oracle
    licenses & toss in a pile of database links. Works
    the same way & you don't have to pay extra for it.
    The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies,
    for whatever reason, the data that node was hosting
    is not offline till you get it repaired. And
    actually you really do not need to do anything to
    your application to take advantage of RAC, except
    adjust your error handling to understand that a
    transaction needed to be resubmitted.

    Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is
    Windows. Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS
    horse that runs the same whatever the platform. And
    BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without any
    additional software, never mind that it runs on
    Linux in the first place. Similar things can also
    be said for DB2, Sybase, and Informix. When, if
    ever, Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that
    runs as multiple independent processes on Linux then
    I'll give them a second look. As long as their a
    single multi-threaded Windows only process they can
    stay in Redmond. Also, yes they are the "fastest
    growing" database on the market, take a look at that
    copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got.
    There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you
    can't uninstall it. Billy G is still up to his old
    tricks. The only solution to MicroSoft is forced
    divestiture. Too bad that judge could not stand up
    to King George.


    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:40 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



    Aargh ...

    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move
    to SQL Server ...

    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias
    ...

    8>)

    Raj
    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly
    personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is
    an art !


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    FYI
    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
    stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd

    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a
    chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel
    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que valga la
    pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Gabriel Aragon
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Nuno Souto at Jul 2, 2003 at 2:21 pm
    Original Message -----
    Any comments?
    Yes. got that one last year. Still got it.
    Installed the doco in my PC at work so I could
    read it in peace and quiet (!). Installed the s/w
    as well so I could play with it.

    Went straight to their recovery manual. Basically,
    it reads like this:
    "restore all db files"
    "apply saved logs"

    No partial recovery, no online recovery, no
    PITR, nothing. Put me off the whole thing straight
    away.

    But if I may quote dubya: "make no mistake", they'll
    fix it. And then it will be quite interesting...

    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Nuno Souto
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  • Jesse, Rich at Jul 2, 2003 at 4:33 pm
    Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
    requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from the demo I saw.
    HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
    called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work with only changes
    to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix servers and
    once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the client had to be
    Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster (1-2 secs vs.
    20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
    queries worked flawlessly, too.

    So, what's the case for code changes?

    Makes me want to read the articles further...

    Rich

    Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
    Any comments?
    Gabriel

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jesse, Rich
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Jared Still at Jul 2, 2003 at 4:44 pm
    How do you go about finding MS SQL Server on
    MS Advanced Server?

    We have quite few Win2k/NT servers around here:
    no mention of MS SQL in the register, and it's
    not on the program menu.

    Jared
    On Tuesday 01 July 2003 13:10, Goulet, Dick wrote:
    Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has been. Basically
    MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle black".

    On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does have an edge, but that's
    just how they've eliminated all of their other competition over the years.
    The product does not cost less than Oracle or DB2, it's just that MicroSoft
    can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash they have to offset the
    giveaway they're into. I believe that was one of the points of the
    Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.

    On RAC they really have a long way to go. If you want to do a
    federated database setup like MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition
    Oracle licenses & toss in a pile of database links. Works the same way &
    you don't have to pay extra for it. The whole idea of RAC is that when one
    node dies, for whatever reason, the data that node was hosting is not
    offline till you get it repaired. And actually you really do not need to do
    anything to your application to take advantage of RAC, except adjust your
    error handling to understand that a transaction needed to be resubmitted.

    Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is Windows. Their a one OS
    horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs the same whatever the platform.
    And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat without any additional software, never
    mind that it runs on Linux in the first place. Similar things can also be
    said for DB2, Sybase, and Informix. When, if ever, Microsoft has a version
    of Sql*Server that runs as multiple independent processes on Linux then
    I'll give them a second look. As long as their a single multi-threaded
    Windows only process they can stay in Redmond. Also, yes they are the
    "fastest growing" database on the market, take a look at that copy of
    Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've got. There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000
    in there, and you can't uninstall it. Billy G is still up to his old
    tricks. The only solution to MicroSoft is forced divestiture. Too bad
    that judge could not stand up to King George.


    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:40 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



    Aargh ...

    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL Server ...

    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...

    8>)

    Raj
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----- Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    FYI
    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jared Still
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Nick Wagner at Jul 2, 2003 at 5:28 pm
    there are a couple of finer points that are left out...

    There are really two versions of TAF that they are talking about here...

    Session Failover -- it's easy to do, just rebuild the TNSNAMES.ORA file on the
    client machine, and create a backup connection. If the connection fails to connect to
    the primary, it will retry it on the secondary, after XX number of seconds (and a
    couple other options as well.) The client has no idea that it even reconnected.
    This works with about 99% of applications written with OCI8. However, since all it
    does is reconnect the user, any in process transactions are lost, and the user does
    not know it until they try and commit, and then they select that data back, and only
    half of it is there. It's a risky solution, but works GREAT for demos.

    Session Failover and reprocessing of in process transactions - This method actually
    replays any in process activities on the secondary node, and then allows the user to
    continue on as if nothing happened. This is one way not to have perceived data
    corruption. But it does require extensive modification to the OCI connection layer so
    that the Client product is 'TAF aware' And it means the client software must record
    all the uncommitted activity that a session does, so that when oracle fails it to the
    other machine, it knows to replay that activity before giving any response back to the
    user. This works today in SQL*Plus without any modification (try it it's pretty cool)
    but will require HUGE amounts of code changes to any other app to get it to work.
    (i.e. try it with Oracle forms, or People Soft clients -- no chance it will work.)

    so, the Microsoft is right and wrong at the same time... odd how they do that so
    well.

    Nick

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
    requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from the demo I saw.
    HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
    called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work with only changes
    to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix servers and
    once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the client had to be
    Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster (1-2 secs vs.
    20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
    queries worked flawlessly, too.

    So, what's the case for code changes?

    Makes me want to read the articles further...

    Rich

    Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
    Any comments?
    Gabriel

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jesse, Rich
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
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    --
    Author: Nick Wagner
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Branimir Petrovic at Jul 2, 2003 at 6:07 pm

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jared Still [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    Sent: July 2, 2003 11:31 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)



    How do you go about finding MS SQL Server on
    MS Advanced Server?

    We have quite few Win2k/NT servers around here:
    no mention of MS SQL in the register, and it's
    not on the program menu.

    Jared
    It comes with "Small Business Server".

    That's another name for M$ Exchange, M$ SQL, modem and fax
    sharing software running atop of Win2K server all bundled
    together and wrapped in gazillion wizards. All geared to
    fit needs of small business owners who "have better things
    to do in their lives" (than worry their (pretty?) heads
    with sordid details of what's been showed down their eager
    throats and why)...

    Branimir

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Branimir Petrovic
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • John Kanagaraj at Jul 2, 2003 at 6:50 pm
    Rich,

    So, what's the case for code changes?
    TAF (Transparent Application Failover) will provide both SESSION failover as
    well as SELECT failover. In the former case, the session aborts on the
    now-failed server and starts from the beginning on the new node, while the
    latter enables user with open cursors to continue fetching on them after
    failure by re-executing the cursors on the new node. The former does not
    require code changes, while the latter does, and requires code changes done
    on a limited number of executable environments (JDBC Thin and OCI come to
    mind) that support 'TAF Callback'. TAF *with RAC* will provide the
    environment for a clustered environment where the user can failover from one
    node to another node accessing the same data (as compared to TAF in a
    replicated environment).

    Hope this answers your question. Murali Vallath [are you listening in,
    Murali?] may be able to add some details [Hint!]

    John Kanagaraj
    Oracle Applications DBA
    DBSoft Inc
    (W): 408-970-7002

    Disappointment is inevitable, but Discouragement is optional!

    The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my
    employer or clients **
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)


    Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
    requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from
    the demo I saw.
    HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
    called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work
    with only changes
    to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix
    servers and
    once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the
    client had to be
    Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster
    (1-2 secs vs.
    20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
    queries worked flawlessly, too.

    So, what's the case for code changes?

    Makes me want to read the articles further...

    Rich
    Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    FYI
    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
    Any comments?
    Gabriel
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jesse, Rich
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
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    to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
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  • Jesse, Rich at Jul 2, 2003 at 6:50 pm
    Interesting. For some reason, the term "transparent failover" sticks in my
    head. Then again, I was remembering incorrectly. The Oracle Workload
    Generator demo was for load-balanced queries between the two nodes of the
    RAC. The failover was a SQL statement run from SQL*Plus, which probably
    comes "TAF aware" or can be made to with a simple relinking.

    Thanks for the clarification, Nick!

    Rich

    Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Nick Wagner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 12:41 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)


    there are a couple of finer points that are left out...

    There are really two versions of TAF that they are talking
    about here...

    1) Session Failover -- it's easy to do, just rebuild the
    TNSNAMES.ORA file on the client machine, and create a backup
    connection. If the connection fails to connect to the
    primary, it will retry it on the secondary, after XX number
    of seconds (and a couple other options as well.) The client
    has no idea that it even reconnected. This works with about
    99% of applications written with OCI8. However, since all it
    does is reconnect the user, any in process transactions are
    lost, and the user does not know it until they try and
    commit, and then they select that data back, and only half of
    it is there. It's a risky solution, but works GREAT for demos.

    2) Session Failover and reprocessing of in process
    transactions - This method actually replays any in process
    activities on the secondary node, and then allows the user to
    continue on as if nothing happened. This is one way not to
    have perceived data corruption. But it does require
    extensive modification to the OCI connection layer so that
    the Client product is 'TAF aware' And it means the client
    software must record all the uncommitted activity that a
    session does, so that when oracle fails it to the other
    machine, it knows to replay that activity before giving any
    response back to the user. This works today in SQL*Plus
    without any modification (try it it's pretty cool) but will
    require HUGE amounts of code changes to any other app to get
    it to work. (i.e. try it with Oracle forms, or People Soft
    clients -- no chance it will work.)

    so, the Microsoft is right and wrong at the same time... odd
    how they do that so well.

    Nick

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Has anyone read the articles? One point states that failover for RAC
    requires coding changes to take advantage of it. Not from
    the demo I saw.
    HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
    called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work
    with only changes
    to the sqlnet.ora. I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix
    servers and
    once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the
    client had to be
    Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster
    (1-2 secs vs.
    20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly. As an aside, the load balancing
    queries worked flawlessly, too.

    So, what's the case for code changes?

    Makes me want to read the articles further...

    Rich
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jesse, Rich
    INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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    to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Jamadagni, Rajendra at Jul 2, 2003 at 8:16 pm
    We handle our fail over in the code .... and trust me users don't know. Nor it affects any scores that we put on the TV ... works just fine, but code design plays important role.

    BTW talking of TAF, has anyone experimented with 'warming the lib cache' ?? Any experiences? I am referring to dbms_libcache in 9ir2.

    Raj

    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
    QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

    -----Original Message-----
    From: John Kanagaraj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 2:31 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)

    Rich,
    So, what's the case for code changes?
    TAF (Transparent Application Failover) will provide both SESSION failover as
    well as SELECT failover. In the former case, the session aborts on the
    now-failed server and starts from the beginning on the new node, while the
    latter enables user with open cursors to continue fetching on them after
    failure by re-executing the cursors on the new node. The former does not
    require code changes, while the latter does, and requires code changes done
    on a limited number of executable environments (JDBC Thin and OCI come to
    mind) that support 'TAF Callback'. TAF *with RAC* will provide the
    environment for a clustered environment where the user can failover from one
    node to another node accessing the same data (as compared to TAF in a
    replicated environment).

    Hope this answers your question. Murali Vallath [are you listening in,
    Murali?] may be able to add some details [Hint!]

    John Kanagaraj
    Oracle Applications DBA
    DBSoft Inc
    (W): 408-970-7002

    Disappointment is inevitable, but Discouragement is optional!

    The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of my
    employer or clients **
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Jesse, Rich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 10:04 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)


    Has anyone read the articles?  One point states that failover for RAC
    requires coding changes to take advantage of it.  Not from
    the demo I saw.
    HPaq (or whoever they are these days) took a circa '99 Oracle test GUI
    called Oracle Workload Generator and got failover to work
    with only changes
    to the sqlnet.ora.  I've seen the demo twice, once with Unix
    servers and
    once with Windohs servers (since the app is Windohs, the
    client had to be
    Windohs), and while the Unix did the failover much faster
    (1-2 secs vs.
    20-30 secs), both worked seamlessly.  As an aside, the load balancing
    queries worked flawlessly, too.

    So, what's the case for code changes?

    Makes me want to read the articles further...

    Rich
    Rich Jesse                           System/Database Administrator
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]                  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    FYI
    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:
    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
    Any comments?
    Gabriel
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  • David davis at Jul 2, 2003 at 11:12 pm
    Well, I am not particularly fond of SQL Server, but it does point in time
    recovery and online recovery. At least we did it in the DB Admin class for
    SQL Server 2000.

    Docn isn't that great (except maybe the IT Professional series).

    From: "Nuno Souto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:45:30 -0800
    ----- Original Message -----


    Any comments?
    Yes. got that one last year. Still got it.
    Installed the doco in my PC at work so I could
    read it in peace and quiet (!). Installed the s/w
    as well so I could play with it.
    Went straight to their recovery manual. Basically,
    it reads like this:
    "restore all db files"
    "apply saved logs"
    No partial recovery, no online recovery, no
    PITR, nothing. Put me off the whole thing straight
    away.
    But if I may quote dubya: "make no mistake", they'll
    fix it. And then it will be quite interesting...
    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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  • Goulet, Dick at Jul 3, 2003 at 3:59 pm
    Richard,

    I'm not totally sure, but the one site that I saw that tried it got a memory error, memory cannot be written, when they started it.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Not familiar with SQL*Server but why not? What's preventing it
    from work? I run Oracle under a Linux environment which runs
    in VMware for my dev and test. Also run a RAC under Linux using
    VMware. Other people have done RAC running under Windows under VMware.
    So, what is it with SQL*Server that it won't work under VMware?
    Just would like know.

    Regards,

    Richard

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:47 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    None.

    Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
    SQL Server from a virtual machine.

    Richard Ji

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:mgogala_at_oxhp.com

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
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  • Niall Litchfield at Jul 3, 2003 at 8:54 pm
    Hey, you beat me to it. We also did that. The issue I had with the db
    admin class was nothing to do with admin tasks (whih are pretty simple)
    but the whole "now hif you measure x,y and z (including ratios :( ) then
    you can see that there is a performance issue. Me: So then what do you
    do? Ans: Ah well you will need to attend the developers class for that
    where they go through things like "explain plan" etc.

    GRRR. As if developers optimize code :(

    Niall

    P.S. Nice to see you here Nuno.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ml-errors_at_fatcity.com On
    Behalf Of david davis
    Sent: 03 July 2003 01:01
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)


    Well, I am not particularly fond of SQL Server, but it does
    point in time
    recovery and online recovery. At least we did it in the DB
    Admin class for
    SQL Server 2000.

    Docn isn't that great (except maybe the IT Professional series).
    From: "Nuno Souto"
    Reply-To: ORACLE-L_at_fatcity.com
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    Subject: Re: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2003 23:45:30 -0800
    ----- Original Message -----


    Any comments?
    Yes. got that one last year. Still got it.
    Installed the doco in my PC at work so I could
    read it in peace and quiet (!). Installed the s/w
    as well so I could play with it.

    Went straight to their recovery manual. Basically,
    it reads like this:
    "restore all db files"
    "apply saved logs"

    No partial recovery, no online recovery, no
    PITR, nothing. Put me off the whole thing straight
    away.

    But if I may quote dubya: "make no mistake", they'll
    fix it. And then it will be quite interesting...

    Cheers
    Nuno Souto
    nsouto_at_optusnet.com.au

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Nuno Souto
    INET: nsouto_at_optusnet.com.au

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    Author: Niall Litchfield
    INET: niall.litchfield_at_dial.pipex.com

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  • Richard Ji at Jul 7, 2003 at 5:40 pm
    I see, thanks for the info.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 11:59 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Richard,

    I'm not totally sure, but the one site that I saw that tried it got a memory
    error, memory cannot be written, when they started it.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 5:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Not familiar with SQL*Server but why not? What's preventing it
    from work? I run Oracle under a Linux environment which runs
    in VMware for my dev and test. Also run a RAC under Linux using
    VMware. Other people have done RAC running under Windows under VMware.
    So, what is it with SQL*Server that it won't work under VMware?
    Just would like know.

    Regards,

    Richard

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:47 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    Nope, does not work that way. I've seen it tried.

    Dick Goulet
    Senior Oracle DBA
    Oracle Certified 8i DBA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:15 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    None.

    Hmmm, maybe if you run VMware on Linux then you can run
    SQL Server from a virtual machine.

    Richard Ji

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 3:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    On which unix boxes does SQL Server work? I don't want to
    replace all of my AIX, HP-UX and Solaris boxes with NT.
    I'll consider SQL Server as a replacement as soon as it starts
    operating on Unix. Microsoft operating systems have spurned the whole
    industry trying to protect them from viruses, which makes them completely
    unsuitable for a central database of a Fortune 500 company. Does
    SQL Server work on Linux?

    Mladen Gogala
    Oracle DBA
    Phone:(203) 459-6855
    Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of stuff
    showing why sql server is a better option as a DB
    instead oracle, contains price lists, performance
    evaluation and many other "information", maybe you'd
    like to spend some of your time giving Billy a chance
    to defend his product. The 4 cd's are available
    (almost completely) as links in:

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit

    Any comments?

    Gabriel

    "Any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for"(Cualquier sueño que
    valga la pena tener, es un sueño por el que vale la pena luchar)Charles
    Xavier

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
    http://sbc.yahoo.com
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  • MacGregor, Ian A. at Jul 7, 2003 at 7:27 pm
    Due to
    budget constraints, we shutdown last week, and everyone who works here was given
    four days off without pay.  This was done instead of laying people
    off.  It was a great vacation, and the family will need to eat beans for a
    few days.  Anyway, I was just catching up on my mail
    ...

    It is
    not just  Exchange, but Microsoft Project,  the MS Collaboration
    Software,  MS Operating System Administration tools,   and many others
    which  can introduce SQL*Server to a site.

    It's
    not just SQL*Server either.   One of our Remedy systems is used by a
    group which primarily uses LINUX and Sun clients.  However  Remedy
    cannot seem to deliver a system which works with a Mozilla browser.
    Hence, the users are looking a Bugzilla and MySql.


    Ian
    MacGregor
    Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]



    -----Original Message-----From: Johnston, Tim
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 2:41
    PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
    Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    "Also, yes they are the "fastest growing" database on
    the market, take a look at that copy of Windows 2000 Advanced Server you've
    got."

    And,
    I think all the exchange servers now have Sql*Server as a back end...
    Considering they almost own that corner of the market, I bet that adds up to a
    license or two...

    Tim


    -----Original Message-----From: Goulet, Dick
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 4:11
    PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RE:
    Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    Well, I'll be a little more forgiving than Raj has
    been.  Basically MicroSoft is just the "pot calling the kettle
    black".

    On the issue of price, well yes MicroSoft does
    have an edge, but that's just how they've eliminated all of their other
    competition over the years.  The product does not cost less than Oracle
    or DB2, it's just that MicroSoft can leverage the tremendous amounts of cash
    they have to offset the giveaway they're into.  I believe that was one
    of the points of the Antitrust suit they were embroiled in.



    On RAC they really have a long way to
    go.  If you want to do a federated database setup like
    MicroSoft states, just buy standard edition Oracle licenses & toss in a
    pile of database links.  Works the same way & you don't have to pay
    extra for it.  The whole idea of RAC is that when one node dies, for
    whatever reason, the data that node was hosting is not offline till you get
    it repaired. And actually you really do not need to do anything to your
    application to take advantage of RAC, except adjust your error handling to
    understand that a transaction needed to be resubmitted.

    Overall I think MicroSoft's Achilles heel is
    Windows.  Their a one OS horse. Oracle is a multi OS horse that runs
    the same whatever the platform.  And BTW, Oracle runs RAC on Red Hat
    without any additional software, never mind that it runs on Linux in the
    first place.  Similar things can also be said for DB2, Sybase, and
    Informix.  When, if ever, Microsoft has a version of Sql*Server that
    runs as multiple independent processes on Linux then I'll give them a second
    look.  As long as their a single multi-threaded Windows only process
    they can stay in Redmond.  Also, yes they are the "fastest growing"
    database on the market, take a look at that copy of Windows 2000 Advanced
    Server you've got.  There's a copy of Sql*Server 2000 in there, and you
    can't uninstall it.  Billy G is still up to his old tricks.  The
    only solution to MicroSoft is forced divestiture.  Too bad that judge
    could not stand up to King George.

    Dick GouletSenior Oracle DBAOracle Certified 8i DBA


    -----Original Message-----From: Jamadagni, Rajendra
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003
    1:40 PMTo: Multiple recipients of list
    ORACLE-LSubject: RE: Microsoft VS Oracle
    (again)
    Aargh ...
    you must be very brave telling a Oracle cult to move to SQL
    Server ...
    How do we know you are not Billy G using an alias ...


    8>)
    Raj
    size=2>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
    All Views expressed in this email are strictly
    personal. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an
    opinion is an art !
    -----Original Message----- From:
    Gabriel Aragon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
    Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 1:00 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Microsoft VS Oracle (again)
    FYI

    One of my friends at Microsoft, (yes I must to
    confess, I have friends at MS) gave me a "present",
    it's a 4 cd's kit called "SQL Server 2000 for the
    Oracle Customer", the kit consist in 4 cd's with
    demos, docs, presentations, videos and a lot of
    stuff showing why sql server is a better option as a
    DB instead oracle, contains price lists,
    performance evaluation and many other "information",
    maybe you'd like to spend some of your time giving
    Billy a chance to defend his product. The 4 cd's are
    available (almost completely) as links in:


    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit"
    target=_blank>http://www.microsoft.com/sql/oraclekit
    Any comments?
    Gabriel

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