FAQ
Dave - Why not do a shutdown immediate?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP

Lifetouch, Inc.
dwilliams_at_lifetouch.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
and Oracle

Ok, so I changed my cold backup script lastnight so it does this;

connect internal/amianidiot
shutdown abort
startup restrict
shutdown normal
exit

It then does the abort and the startup and then the shutdown normal but then
I get this and my database hangs;

Shutting down instance (normal)
License high water mark = 10
Fri Jan 31 03:05:35 2003
SHUTDOWN: waiting for logins to complete.

So now I was totally ready to go postal, but then rational thinking
prevailed so I RTFMed. I then come across this in the FM;

Typically, all users with the CREATE SESSION system privilege can connect to
an open database. Opening a database in restricted mode allows database
access only to users with both the CREATE SESSION and RESTRICTED SESSION
system privilege; only database administrators should have the RESTRICTED
SESSION system privilege

So my question is, should all users be created with the system privilege of
CREATE SESSION and only I get the RESTRICTED SESSION in addition? Am I
reading this correctly that for the STARTUP RESTRICT to work all users need
to have the CREATE SESSION privilege? We have some third party replication
software that is trying to make a connection to Oracle every 5 seconds and I
think this was the culprit. It DID NOT have the CREATE SESSION but it does
now so I am curious as to if the database will shutdown tonight. Did I
actually learn something??

Thanks,

Dave(iamanidiot) :o)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:15 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

I'll echo that sentiment.

'shutdown abort', 'startup restrict' was a regular part of my
shutdown scripts beginning in 1994 with 7.0.16, as
'shutdown immediate' wasn't all that reliable, even in situations
where it should have worked.

Jared
On Wednesday 29 January 2003 15:53, John Kanagaraj wrote:
Rao,

And where did you read that 'shutdown abort' is not recommended? This is
another myth that has been busted a while ago. A shutdown abort followed by
a startup restrict and a normal shutdown is the way to go when dealing with
rogue sessions that open a connection and never shutdown. In such cases, a
shutdown immediate will _never_ return (certainly not within your 5 to 10
minutes). I have been using this method for more than 8 years now -
starting at 7.0.16 fyi. The trick in this case is to script it into the rc
commands.

John Kanagaraj
Oracle Applications DBA
DBSoft Inc
(W): 408-970-7002

I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my
future!

** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of
my employer or clients **


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Paula,

Shutdown abort is not recommended as the file checkpointing is not done
during shutdown abort. If you need to perform shutdown abort, then, it is
preferred to bring up the db with startup restrict (so that the users
wouldn't connect) and then, cleanly shutdown the db and bring it up again.

Tell to your sys admins. that shutdown immediate would take some time
(about 5 to 10 minutes) depending on the activity on your db. They would
have to wait for that much time before calling a DBA during system boots.

Rao

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:30 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



System Administrator says he doesn't trust that the rc commands will stop
if the database doesn't want to shutdown and even if it does would want to
shutdown with scripts beforehand so that a DBA could connect and resolve
the issue. Other DBA says this is all wrong and rc commands should include
shutdown immediate of database. In the past I had setup 2 processes in the
system scripts for the sys admin - shutdown immediate - wait .... shutdown
abort - on a read-only DSS system which of course allows some room for this
type of activity. I kind of would want to know if a database was going to
be shutdown with an abort esp. in OLTP system and do it myself.



- any ideas
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author: Jared Still
INET: jkstill_at_cybcon.com

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--
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--
Author: Farnsworth, Dave
INET: DFarnsworth_at_Ashleyfurniture.com

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--
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Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS
INET: DWILLIAMS_at_LIFETOUCH.COM

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Search Discussions

  • Jesse, Rich at Jan 31, 2003 at 4:50 pm
    Hey Dave,

    In order for any session to be created by a user, that user MUST have CREATE
    SESSION, AFAIK. The only users that should be able to connect to a
    restricted DB are those with the RESTRICTED SESSION priv. By default, this
    is granted to the DBA role.

    You might want to throw some info/debug output in your script after the
    startup restrict. Perhaps SELECTs from V$INSTANCE and/or V$SESSION.
    V$INSTANCE should tell you if the DB is really in restricted mode or not
    ("logins" column???) as well as provide an audit in your logfile of exactly
    what DB is being bounced/shutdown. V$SESSION will tell you if another
    user's sneaking in there.

    Also, I mentioned in another post that the semi-Intelligent Agent may cause
    problems. But now that I look at the account privs, it doesn't look like it
    should be able to login restricted. Hmmmmm...

    Good Beer to you,
    Rich

    Rich Jesse System/Database Administrator
    rjesse_at_qtiworld.com Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:34 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    and Oracle

    Ok, so I changed my cold backup script lastnight so it does this;

    connect internal/amianidiot
    shutdown abort
    startup restrict
    shutdown normal
    exit

    It then does the abort and the startup and then the shutdown normal but then
    I get this and my database hangs;

    Shutting down instance (normal)
    License high water mark = 10
    Fri Jan 31 03:05:35 2003
    SHUTDOWN: waiting for logins to complete.

    So now I was totally ready to go postal, but then rational thinking
    prevailed so I RTFMed. I then come across this in the FM;

    Typically, all users with the CREATE SESSION system privilege can connect to
    an open database. Opening a database in restricted mode allows database
    access only to users with both the CREATE SESSION and RESTRICTED SESSION
    system privilege; only database administrators should have the RESTRICTED
    SESSION system privilege

    So my question is, should all users be created with the system privilege of
    CREATE SESSION and only I get the RESTRICTED SESSION in addition? Am I
    reading this correctly that for the STARTUP RESTRICT to work all users need
    to have the CREATE SESSION privilege? We have some third party replication
    software that is trying to make a connection to Oracle every 5 seconds and I
    think this was the culprit. It DID NOT have the CREATE SESSION but it does
    now so I am curious as to if the database will shutdown tonight. Did I
    actually learn something??

    Thanks,

    Dave(iamanidiot) :o)
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jesse, Rich
    INET: Rich.Jesse_at_qtiworld.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
  • Mercadante, Thomas F at Jan 31, 2003 at 6:04 pm
    Dave,

    change the last shutdown to shutdown immediate.

    you are waiting because the Oracle Agent re-connected, and a shutdown normal
    will wait for it to disconnect. By oracle Agent, I mean the DBSNMP session
    (started from lsnrctl).

    hope this helps.

    Tom Mercadante
    Oracle Certified Professional

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 10:34 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
    and Oracle

    Ok, so I changed my cold backup script lastnight so it does this;

    connect internal/amianidiot
    shutdown abort
    startup restrict
    shutdown normal
    exit

    It then does the abort and the startup and then the shutdown normal but then
    I get this and my database hangs;

    Shutting down instance (normal)
    License high water mark = 10
    Fri Jan 31 03:05:35 2003
    SHUTDOWN: waiting for logins to complete.

    So now I was totally ready to go postal, but then rational thinking
    prevailed so I RTFMed. I then come across this in the FM;

    Typically, all users with the CREATE SESSION system privilege can connect to
    an open database. Opening a database in restricted mode allows database
    access only to users with both the CREATE SESSION and RESTRICTED SESSION
    system privilege; only database administrators should have the RESTRICTED
    SESSION system privilege

    So my question is, should all users be created with the system privilege of
    CREATE SESSION and only I get the RESTRICTED SESSION in addition? Am I
    reading this correctly that for the STARTUP RESTRICT to work all users need
    to have the CREATE SESSION privilege? We have some third party replication
    software that is trying to make a connection to Oracle every 5 seconds and I
    think this was the culprit. It DID NOT have the CREATE SESSION but it does
    now so I am curious as to if the database will shutdown tonight. Did I
    actually learn something??

    Thanks,

    Dave(iamanidiot) :o)

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:15 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

    I'll echo that sentiment.

    'shutdown abort', 'startup restrict' was a regular part of my
    shutdown scripts beginning in 1994 with 7.0.16, as
    'shutdown immediate' wasn't all that reliable, even in situations
    where it should have worked.

    Jared
    On Wednesday 29 January 2003 15:53, John Kanagaraj wrote:
    Rao,

    And where did you read that 'shutdown abort' is not recommended? This is
    another myth that has been busted a while ago. A shutdown abort followed by
    a startup restrict and a normal shutdown is the way to go when dealing with
    rogue sessions that open a connection and never shutdown. In such cases, a
    shutdown immediate will _never_ return (certainly not within your 5 to 10
    minutes). I have been using this method for more than 8 years now -
    starting at 7.0.16 fyi. The trick in this case is to script it into the rc
    commands.

    John Kanagaraj
    Oracle Applications DBA
    DBSoft Inc
    (W): 408-970-7002

    I don't know what the future holds for me, but I do know who holds my
    future!

    ** The opinions and statements above are entirely my own and not those of
    my employer or clients **


    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:49 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


    Paula,

    Shutdown abort is not recommended as the file checkpointing is not done
    during shutdown abort. If you need to perform shutdown abort, then, it is
    preferred to bring up the db with startup restrict (so that the users
    wouldn't connect) and then, cleanly shutdown the db and bring it up again.

    Tell to your sys admins. that shutdown immediate would take some time
    (about 5 to 10 minutes) depending on the activity on your db. They would
    have to wait for that much time before calling a DBA during system boots.

    Rao

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:30 AM
    To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



    System Administrator says he doesn't trust that the rc commands will stop
    if the database doesn't want to shutdown and even if it does would want to
    shutdown with scripts beforehand so that a DBA could connect and resolve
    the issue. Other DBA says this is all wrong and rc commands should include
    shutdown immediate of database. In the past I had setup 2 processes in the
    system scripts for the sys admin - shutdown immediate - wait .... shutdown
    abort - on a read-only DSS system which of course allows some room for this
    type of activity. I kind of would want to know if a database was going to
    be shutdown with an abort esp. in OLTP system and do it myself.



    - any ideas
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Jared Still
    INET: jkstill_at_cybcon.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
    the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
    (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Farnsworth, Dave
    INET: DFarnsworth_at_Ashleyfurniture.com

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
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    also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
    --
    Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
    --
    Author: Mercadante, Thomas F
    INET: NDATFM_at_labor.state.ny.us

    Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
    San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
    to: ListGuru_at_fatcity.com (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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postedJan 31, '03 at 4:35p
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